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alanc · Sunday 27th September 2009, 20:50

Took many photos of kestrels on a recent visit to the algarve. I find it difficult to differentiate between LK's and regular kestrels. This particular bird seen hunting at dusk over the Alvor estuary had a definate browny-red body. Could it be a LK?

halftwo · Sunday 27th September 2009, 21:25

Alan,
My money's on Kestrel on those photos.

alanc · Monday 28th September 2009, 08:28

thanks halftwo
I guess I was thrown by the breast colouration. The bird definately had a darker underside than "normal" kestrels - this not detailed enough in the photos due to the fading light but to the naked eye the brownish colour was quite clear
alan

joshjenkinsshaw · Monday 28th September 2009, 08:56

Looks like a Red-footed Falcon to me....?

alanc · Monday 28th September 2009, 09:41

the location would not be right for RFF. I dont think they occur in the algarve.

joshjenkinsshaw · Monday 28th September 2009, 09:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanc

the location would not be right for RFF. I dont think they occur in the algarve.

Sandhill Cranes dont occur on Orkney, let alone UK very often...location is no reason to dismiss a bird...

alanc · Monday 28th September 2009, 09:51

point taken

SteveClifton · Monday 28th September 2009, 16:54

Clearly one of the two Kestrel sp., but which one?

Tail is too long for RFF, and it would show whiter and more contrasty face with more conspicuous dark moustaches if it were RFF. That species should also show a clear dark trailing edge to the wing, which this bird doesn't.

Also, tail pattern appears to show a conspicuously dark subterminal band with paler tips to feathers which is indicative of a Kestrel sp.

John Cantelo · Monday 28th September 2009, 17:15

It's always difficult to be confident about colouration in photos like this but this bird looks wrong for LK in terms of colouration. The shape looks wrong too - I'd expect LKs to appear proportionately shorter tailed. The killer punch, though is the wing formula - something I find hard to describe but essentially LK has longer P10 (ie the leading edge primary) than P7 (the "fourth from front" primary); CK has P7 & P10 of equal length

halftwo · Monday 28th September 2009, 17:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Cantelo

It's always difficult to be confident about colouration in photos like this but this bird looks wrong for LK in terms of colouration. The shape looks wrong too - I'd expect LKs to appear proportionately shorter tailed. The killer punch, though is the wing formula - something I find hard to describe but essentially LK has longer P10 (ie the leading edge primary) than P7 (the "fourth from front" primary); CK has P7 & P10 of equal length

But P10 looks too short for either - maybe its growing (?) .
My reason for K vs. LK was the amount of dark chequering on the underwing - too much for LK - I think the colours we see here aren't as "in the field".
However the face does show some contrast - better for K.
Maybe someone could alter the images?

rockfowl · Monday 28th September 2009, 17:28

Try this..

halftwo · Monday 28th September 2009, 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockfowl

Try this..

Brilliant.
Now what's your opinion?!

rockfowl · Monday 28th September 2009, 17:39

Mine?

I think it's a Common Kestrel

lou salomon · Monday 28th September 2009, 17:44

common kestrel on shape of wingtip and strong underwing pattern.

halftwo · Monday 28th September 2009, 17:48

Glad we have a consensus.

Sunday 27th September 2009, 20:50	#1
alanc Just an earthbound misfit Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: bournemouth Posts: 358	Lesser kestrel, Algarve, sept Took many photos of kestrels on a recent visit to the algarve. I find it difficult to differentiate between LK's and regular kestrels. This particular bird seen hunting at dusk over the Alvor estuary had a definate browny-red body. Could it be a LK? Attached Thumbnails

Sunday 27th September 2009, 21:25	#2
halftwo Wird Batcher Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: cheshire Posts: 6,462 Blog Entries: 1 My location	Alan, My money's on Kestrel on those photos. __________________ Known to follow bird waves.

Monday 28th September 2009, 16:54	#8
SteveClifton Registered User Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: N Yorks Posts: 1,451	Clearly one of the two Kestrel sp., but which one? Tail is too long for RFF, and it would show whiter and more contrasty face with more conspicuous dark moustaches if it were RFF. That species should also show a clear dark trailing edge to the wing, which this bird doesn't. Also, tail pattern appears to show a conspicuously dark subterminal band with paler tips to feathers which is indicative of a Kestrel sp. Last edited by SteveClifton : Monday 28th September 2009 at 16:57.

Monday 28th September 2009, 17:15	#9
John Cantelo Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Canterbury, UK Posts: 4,211	It's always difficult to be confident about colouration in photos like this but this bird looks wrong for LK in terms of colouration. The shape looks wrong too - I'd expect LKs to appear proportionately shorter tailed. The killer punch, though is the wing formula - something I find hard to describe but essentially LK has longer P10 (ie the leading edge primary) than P7 (the "fourth from front" primary); CK has P7 & P10 of equal length __________________ John Please support Andalucia Bird Society www.andalusiabirdsociety.org Visit my website & blog on birding in SW Spain at http://birdingcadizprovince.weebly.com/

Monday 28th September 2009, 17:28	#11
rockfowl Mark Andrews Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Leicester, UK Posts: 6,193	Try this.. Attached Thumbnails __________________ DigiPics & Artwork - http://www.smandrews.com Digivideos - http://www.youtube.com/user/rockfowlmarkandrews Support the Oriental Bird Club

Monday 28th September 2009, 08:28	#3
alanc Just an earthbound misfit Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: bournemouth Posts: 358	thanks halftwo I guess I was thrown by the breast colouration. The bird definately had a darker underside than "normal" kestrels - this not detailed enough in the photos due to the fading light but to the naked eye the brownish colour was quite clear alan

Monday 28th September 2009, 08:56	#4
joshjenkinsshaw Kent Birder Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Knockholt, Kent, UK Posts: 760	Looks like a Red-footed Falcon to me....?

Monday 28th September 2009, 09:41	#5
alanc Just an earthbound misfit Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: bournemouth Posts: 358	the location would not be right for RFF. I dont think they occur in the algarve.

Monday 28th September 2009, 09:51	#7
alanc Just an earthbound misfit Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: bournemouth Posts: 358	point taken

Monday 28th September 2009, 17:39	#13
rockfowl Mark Andrews Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Leicester, UK Posts: 6,193	Mine? I think it's a Common Kestrel __________________ DigiPics & Artwork - http://www.smandrews.com Digivideos - http://www.youtube.com/user/rockfowlmarkandrews Support the Oriental Bird Club

Monday 28th September 2009, 17:44	#14
lou salomon the birdonist Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Stuttgart Posts: 8,785	common kestrel on shape of wingtip and strong underwing pattern. __________________ lou

Monday 28th September 2009, 17:48	#15
halftwo Wird Batcher Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: cheshire Posts: 6,462 Blog Entries: 1 My location	Glad we have a consensus. __________________ Known to follow bird waves.

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