[fi8she4r]

Hi everyone,
I just wanted to say this is a great site. I found it on my quest in finding new Binoculars.

What should I buy?

I am just finished my first year after my under graduate degree working on different bird jobs. I have the Talon 8x40 Storks series or Vortex. I don't really know what to call them anymore the labels have falling off. I use them for everything from point counts to hawk watching. Lets just say they have been through a lot.

I want a new pair but not know where to start. I have about 800 to spend. I have tried the best Leica, Swarovski, and Zeiss. All are great but out of my price range. I want a pair that will last but also take a beating.

I have thought about vortex new Razors, Bushnell Elite, or maybe Kowa BD.
I want something that is 8x40 or close to that.

My real problem is that I have not tried any of these. There isn't a store around that has any type of selection. So it's a blind buy.

Sorry long post. Any help and I would be thankful.

[ronh]

Welcome, unpronounceable but real birder,
According to almost everybody who has looked through them, the Zen-Ray 8x43 ED2 slays all within a factor of two of its price, being less than $500 if you grab the introductory offer, still easily within your budget even if you don't. They are new, and therefore with no reputation for longevity yet, but of all the reports on them I've seen, not a single one has been defective, and the guy who runs the company (specs binos for build in China and QCs them, as I understand it) is super responsive to customer issues of all kinds. I haven't used them myself, but they are the rage right now.
Ron

[RJM]

I would not pay more than $500 for any birding bino now unless it had some kind of ED glass objective lens. That said....

In porros, the venerable Swift 8.5x44mm ED model 820 is pretty much close to optically perfect for birding as you can get in a 40mm class binocular. However, it has some mechanical issues with the eyepieces and pop-up cups that some find too annoying to bear and at 850g it is not exactly svelt. I really like mine though.

As for roofs, BF's China-made darling of the moment is the Zen Ray ED2 series. By all reports it does seem to be a nice bino and the price is certainly right. The rep is taking a keen interest in customer support and seems VERY quick to respond to feedback and suggestions for improvements.

happy shopping,
Rick

[mooreorless]

You are within a $100 of this binocular. 30 day return policy, but item has to be in new condition.
http://www.eagleoptics.com/binocular...p-shot-adapter

[J. Moore]

Originally Posted by fi8she4r

My real problem is that I have not tried any of these. There isn't a store around that has any type of selection. So it's a blind buy.

Don't know where you are in VA, but there is a store in Alexandria: http://www.onegoodtern.com/ They have a wide array of bins--much wider than their website suggests. But if you decide to visit you might call to see if they have those you're interested in.

Eagle Optics, a mostly online seller, is known for its liberal return policy.

Best,
Jim

[oleaf]

fi8she4r,

Try to look through a pair of Meopta 7x, 8x42 or 8x32. Easily rivals Swarovski for view and ruggedness and is exactly half the cost (against the Swaro EL's anyway). This is the only brand that equals the top brands in construction and precision. All have a very wide flat comfortable view.

All are right in your $$ range.

Cheers

[J. Moore]

Originally Posted by oleaf

This is the only brand that equals the top brands in construction and precision.

You must write ad copy for someone. This is the type of claim you'd find in sales literature because there's no objective way to verify whether it's true or false.

[Martin Fagg]

I second the recommendation for Meopta. I have 8x32 Meostars and I compared them with Swaro 8x30 SLCs at the shop and thought the Meoptas better view-wise and much better ergonomically. The SLC has the focus wheel at the front of the bins which I found really awkward. Also the Meoptas (here in the UK at least) were two thirdes of the price of the SLC.

[Fireform]

Originally Posted by oleaf

fi8she4r,

Try to look through a pair of Meopta 7x, 8x42 or 8x32. Easily rivals Swarovski for view and ruggedness and is exactly half the cost (against the Swaro EL's anyway). This is the only brand that equals the top brands in construction and precision. All have a very wide flat comfortable view.

All are right in your $$ range.

Cheers

That's my recommendation too in that price range. Meoptas are very good optically and very highly regarded in the ruggedness department, too.

[kristoffer]

Imo the meopta got a yellow colour bias and I prefer the brighter and non-colour biased view of the zen ed2. Also the meopta lack "ed" glas.

[oleaf]

J Moore,

Well, there is an objective way to verify the build quality of Meopta. Go on their European web site and hunt around in the open house photo gallery. You can see some product they make for some very elite optics brands (I'm sure stuff you're not supposed to see). Now realize... they make stuff... not just branding stuff made in far away factories.

So, yes it is verifiable in a way. If you take a look at optics companies you can easily figure out who makes their own brand... and who specs off a menu. Believe what you see... not what you read.

And... I'm a terrible writer.

cheers

[oleaf]

Kristoffer,

Meopta's do have a warm bias but to call it yellow is a bit misleading. And yes you can judge all binoculars by whether or not they have "ED glass" or not.

You can also put $3000 tires and wheels on a $500 car.

Cheers

[J. Moore]

I'm glad you and others like your Meopta's oleaf, but I think binoculars are a personal preference, so I try avoid making grand generalizations about them. I have no opinion on the Meopta's myself, and was not expressing any by my comment, but for what it's worth note that the Meostars did not stack up to the big boys in this review: http://www.birdwatching.com/optics/2...hart_main.html (Though I know you think any review that is unimpressed with Meoptas is biased). I'll also note that the x42 Meostars are much too heavy for me and others with similar preferences to consider--my cutoff is around 25 oz., while they top 30 oz. However, I know that others here, such as FrankD, have written favorably about some of the Meoptas.

Best,
Jim

[ceasar]

Here is one from Nikon. Curiously, it seems that no one mentions Nikon much anymore when a question like yours appears, but it is hard to ignore Goliath for long! It's $100.00 more than you want to pay but it's worth the money.
http://www.cameralandny.com/optics/n...page=nikon7534
The dealer is first rate too.
Bob

[ronh]

fi8shre4r,
Still losing your mind, I expect. We're here for ya', man.
Ron

[oleaf]

Originally Posted by J. Moore

I'm glad you and others like your Meopta's oleaf, but I think binoculars are a personal preference, so I try avoid making grand generalizations about them. I have no opinion on the Meopta's myself, and was not expressing any by my comment, but for what it's worth note that the Meostars did not stack up to the big boys in this review: http://www.birdwatching.com/optics/2...hart_main.html (Though I know you think any review that is unimpressed with Meoptas is biased). I'll also note that the x42 Meostars are much too heavy for me and others to consider--my cutoff is around 25 oz., while they top 30 oz. I know that others here, such as FrankD, have written favorably about some of the Meoptas, however.

Best,
Jim

Jim,

First... fi8she4r wanted ideas on what binocular to buy at $800. Notice my language "try to look through"

I offered an opinion on Meopta because I have first hand experience with the brand and because at the $800 price point and directly compared to the S, L, Z European brands there is no other binocular except Meopta that is on the same level when considering optical quality, build, service, ect.

fi8she4r wanted a rugged binocular because he actually uses his a lot (more than most) and needs ultimate durability because he's not babbying it.

Second... I only gave an opinion first and answered your dumb question about Meopta's quality second.

Jim... responding to you in such a way is such a time waster. Let the thread go on and go talk to a professional.

Sorry fi8she4r

[falcondude]

for that price range, the best deal will be ZEN ED2 binoculars. They have liberal 30 day return policy.

[Paskman]

Originally Posted by ceasar

Here is one from Nikon. Curiously, it seems that no one mentions Nikon much anymore when a question like yours appears, but it is hard to ignore Goliath for long! It's $100.00 more than you want to pay but it's worth the money.
http://www.cameralandny.com/optics/n...page=nikon7534
The dealer is first rate too.
Bob

He has also got a refurbished 10x32 HG L for $649 if you don't mind an extra bit of magnification. With that dealer I'll bet it is as good as new!

http://http://www.cameralandny.com/o...page=nikon7505

Paul

[Tero]

I think you can also get ProMaster from Cameraland NY.

[J. Moore]

Originally Posted by oleaf

Jim,

First... fi8she4r wanted ideas on what binocular to buy at $800. Notice my language "try to look through"

I offered an opinion on Meopta because I have first hand experience with the brand and because at the $800 price point and directly compared to the S, L, Z European brands there is no other binocular except Meopta that is on the same level when considering optical quality, build, service, ect.

fi8she4r wanted a rugged binocular because he actually uses his a lot (more than most) and needs ultimate durability because he's not babbying it.

Second... I only gave an opinion first and answered your dumb question about Meopta's quality second.

Jim... responding to you in such a way is such a time waster. Let the thread go on and go talk to a professional.

Sorry fi8she4r

My post was not intended as a personal attack, not sure why you interpreted it that way. (You did in fact state in another thread that you thought the review I cited was biased because it ranked Meoptas low.) Sorry to others for the distraction.

In any event, I think the chart I linked to in my previous post is quite useful (to OP esp.) since it summarizes lots of info about a number of brands on a single page. Though I agree its rankings should be taken with a grain of salt because they are just a summary of preferences of several individuals engaged in a comparison test.

Best,
Jim

[fi8she4r]

Wow, everyone!
I didn't expect that large volume of reply in such a short time. I must say now I have a whole new line to compare. I will say that I like the comparison chart that J. Moore posted. I looked at it ones before but then couldn't find it again. That chart is the reason I was think of the vortex razors. As for the SLC I don't like the idea of the focus wheel being in the front. I know that it all comes down to personal opinion. That is why I'm having such a hard time with the purchase.

I guess I should have add that I wear eye glasses. Someone sent me an email suggesting the Atlas but their eye relief is only 15 that would be big step down from what I have now and I think that would be the biggest downfall that I would notice.

Also I live in Bristol. I guess I should say TN. I love Eagle Optics they have help me so much in the past. I usually ask them for help, but they are a company and sometimes it nice to hear what other have to say.

Thank you everyone and keep them coming.

[fi8she4r]

Also sorry about the username, my name is Zak. I wish I could have used that but after 6 failed attempt in creating a username I resorted to using one that never has let me down. Lets just say I have been a fly fisherman for a long time.

I thought that was funny ronh.

[oleaf]

Originally Posted by J. Moore

My post was not intended as a personal attack, not sure why you interpreted it that way. (You did in fact state in another thread that you thought the review I cited was biased because it ranked Meoptas low.) Sorry to others for the distraction.

In any event, I think the chart I linked to in my previous post is quite useful (to OP esp.) since it summarizes lots of info about a number of brands on a single page. Though I agree its rankings should be taken with a grain of salt because they are just a summary of preferences of several individuals engaged in a comparison test.

Best,
Jim

LOL... and you keep talking...

[John M Robinson]

Originally Posted by fi8she4r

Wow, everyone!
I didn't expect that large volume of reply in such a short time. I must say now I have a whole new line to compare. I will say that I like the comparison chart that J. Moore posted. I looked at it ones before but then couldn't find it again. That chart is the reason I was think of the vortex razors. As for the SLC I don't like the idea of the focus wheel being in the front. I know that it all comes down to personal opinion. That is why I'm having such a hard time with the purchase.

I guess I should have add that I wear eye glasses. Someone sent me an email suggesting the Atlas but their eye relief is only 15 that would be big step down from what I have now and I think that would be the biggest downfall that I would notice.

Also I live in Bristol. I guess I should say TN. I love Eagle Optics they have help me so much in the past. I usually ask them for help, but they are a company and sometimes it nice to hear what other have to say.

Thank you everyone and keep them coming.

Other than listing some objective data, I wouldn't put too much stock in that chart. If you stay around here for any length of time you will find some very honest opinions by highly qualified and experienced optics experts that are diametrically opposed. Just in looking at that chart I take objection with the fit and feel scores of my Ultravids, a few points low one one subjective catagory can skew the final score, and the one tenth of a point difference between the Ultravids and ELs is way too close to call. Like I said there are equally reputable folks here who pick either Nikon, Zeiss, Leica or Swaro as having the absolute best optics.

You really have to try with your own eyes, but in your price bracket I would definitely give the Meoptas, Nikon LXL and Zen EDs a try.

John

[brocknroller]

Originally Posted by fi8she4r

Also sorry about the username, my name is Zak. I wish I could have used that but after 6 failed attempt in creating a username I resorted to using one that never has let me down. Lets just say I have been a fly fisherman for a long time.

I thought that was funny ronh.

Zak,

And here I thought you were an Italian making an alphanumeric phonetic spelling for your name Fiachi Ferrar. :-)

Well, if you were losing your mind to begin with, reading the posts on this thread probably drove you full tilt Bozo! :-)

As Martin mentioned earlier, a Meopta that might please both you as a newbie binofan (but not newbie birder) and a more discriminating birding optics aficionado like Jim is the Meopta 8x32.

Read Frank D's review:
http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=14996

Note his comments about the color bias, or lack of, Jim.

Frank's photo of the 8x42 and 8x32 together also gives a sense of scale.

As far as the reported "Ambervision" color bias of full sized Meoptas, Clay from Swarovski explained on another thread how earlier Swaros had a yellowish bias for hunters who use their bins in awful weather (like today's "white out" conditions in some parts of PA) and for "glassing" against the snow.

Although I don't hunt, I do "bird" in the winter, but I would rather have a bin with bright "neutral colored" images and high ER so if necessary, I could use sunglasses to tone down the glare of snow cover in the winter while still providing me excellent color fidelity in the spring, summer, and fall.

According to Frank, it appears Meopta designed the 8x32 model with birders in mind and so made them more "color neutral".

So for those who don't like the "pinky focuser" on the 8x30 SLC, the Meopta 8x32 might be a suitable alternative.

I hope to try one next spring.