[njlarsen]

Dear all,
I believe all of these images to show Kelp Gull, but how old are the birds?

The first image should be a second alternate, identical to an adult summer except for browner wings. But how about second and third image?

Also, please take a look at post four in this thread for some similar questions for Band-tailed Gull

Thanks
Niels

[George Edwards]

You forgot the pics Niels …

[njlarsen]

Sorry, here they are

Niels

[JANJ]

Niels.


These are taken recently I presume. The first = 2nd or 3rd cycle (2nd or 3rd summer), probably 3rd due to the broadly white-tipped inner primaries and all white tail, and the other = first cycle (first summer).

JanJ

[njlarsen]

Thank you Jan,
yes these were taken November 2009. It sounds like you think of Kelp Gull as a four year species, where the illustrations in Jaramillo divides into roughly three age classes?

thanks
Niels

[lou salomon]

that's what i thought too, nils. so many immature coverts for a 3rd cycle? to me the first bird looked better for a 2nd cycle alternate (summer) bird which attained fully white rectrices and an adult like bill. but i don't know these well, maybe jan is right.

[Scelorchilus]

The one on the left is a second cycle, Kelp Gull seems to mature a tad earlier than similar four year gulls from the northern hemisphere. The third cycles look much like adults in the wing pattern. The white tail is unusual in a second cycle, but it happens. The other photos are of first cycle birds. I don't have the book here with me, but could swear we put something there mentioning how many years of immaturity each species had. Also there is a section on how to age gulls. Cheers, Alvaro.

[njlarsen]

Thanks Alvaro,
I am suffering from lack of confidence whenever we are talking larger gulls and whatever the issue is (that is what the European Herring Gull complex did to me ), so therefore I wanted confirmation. Regarding number of cycles, Kelp gull was described as "three- or four-year gull".

Thanks
Niels