[SzimiStyle]

Hi Folks,

I am to buy several 10x25 compact binoculars but no idea which provides the best solution (no need to think about the price ) for birdwatching. Crisp view is essential.

I have very little experience [only tried the Leica Ultravid 10x25 (impressive image quality) and my kids have a Minox 8x25 compact (forgettable)] so interested in the performance of the following models:

Kowa 10x25 BD25-10
Leica Ultravid 10x25 BR
Nikon 10x25 Premier LX "L"
Swarovski 10x25 B
Zeiss Victory Compact 10x25 T*

Any comments are highly appreciated.

Cheers, Szimi

[Tero]

None. I do not recommend a 10x25, cheap or expensive. I think they are too shaky and too dim.

I have three pairs of 10x42s. I also have some 8x32s. For a while I had a search for 10x32s but gave up.

Of the ones you have listed I looked at the Nikon, and I did like the 8x version of it.
Here is an old thread on it
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=34484

[James Bean]

Szimi, I can only speak from experience of the Zeiss Victory Compact 10x25T* which I bought recently for the bargain price (new) of £279. It comes with a nice quality leather pouch case with magnetic clasp, but the thin neckstrap is less impressive. First thing I did was to compare it with my Zeiss Design Selection Compact 6x18T*, Zeiss Conquest
8x30T*, Zeiss Classic 10x40 BGAT* (not P*) and Hawke Frontier 8x43ED, just for fun...
Considering its small size, the 10x25 is amazingly bright (I agree with Tero that a 10x25 might normally be expected to be rather dim against larger optics, but my Zeiss Compact
defies that presumption; perhaps it's the dielectric coating that enhances brightness?). The 6x18 Compact is very good (1990s) and is about 60% the size of the 10x25, but its optics are not in the same class as its slightly larger (and much newer) 10x25 sibling. I like the 6x18, despite its 'wrong-way' focus, but I'm glad to say the 10x25 has returned to the traditional 'clockwise to infinity' focus, just like all my other Zeiss (including Zeiss Jena Octarem 8x50). I'm also fond of the 8x30 Conquest, a quietly modest, smallish bin', but the 10x25 is sharper, not a lot, but just discernible (to my eyes); contrast is superb in both, but again I'd say the 10x25 has a slight edge. In fact, the 10x25 resolution can only be described as 'outstanding'. I was surprised how well the old 10x40 BGAT stands up to the much more modern models I have (perhaps it's my old eyes?) but the Hawke ED has the most relaxing 'big view', if not quite as sharp as the 10x25 or even the 8x30. As a test target, I try to read the (tiny) wording on a wall vent on a building across the lane at the back of my house, then switch to the details on a lamp post, then to a TV aerial on the roof, silhouetted against the sky. This tests not only sharpness but ability to hand-hold the image steady: again, I was amazed by the 10x25; it's not as stable as the 6x and 8x (as you'd expect) but it's far better than I'd hoped, and reading details is not a problem (perhaps because of the single off-set hinge?). I've had several compact binoculars over the years, eg. Nikon 7x20 Travelite (a little gem) and a Docter 8x22 that was rather good, plus of course the Zeiss 6x18 I've become attached to, but the Zeiss 10x25 really is in a 'wow' class of its own. With such a small bin, eye placement is quite important, as is the right amount of push-pull adjustment on the eye-cups, so it's more fiddly than a Conquest or Frontier to get comfortable; nevertheless, once it's set up to suit your eyes, the image is 'magic'. You have to wonder how Zeiss can produce such a wonderful view from a miniature binocular. So, although I have never tried any 'mini bins'
from other 'alpha' manufacturers, I'd be surprised if they're better than the Zeiss 10x25 Victory. These are just my subjective views, of course, but I do think Zeiss are nice...

[fugl]

I agree with Tero that compact glasses are poorly suited for bird watching (I have the Zeiss 8 x 20 & regret having bought it). Do you intend the 10 x 25 to be your main birding glass or is it just something you’ll be carrying around in your pocket for casual use?

[dalat]

Hi, for compact binoculars, I find the Ultravid clearly the best. Nikons HGL can be found cheaper and is also good. I would also say 8x20 is probably the better choice than 10x.

[SzimiStyle]

Originally Posted by fugl

Do you intend the 10 x 25 to be your main birding glass or is it just something you’ll be carrying around in your pocket for casual use?

What I need is some pocket size binos and don't want to spend more than $400 for each (or around). The binos will be purchased for a project.

Szimi

[Perry Grin]

Originally Posted by SzimiStyle

What I need is some pocket size binos and don't want to spend more than $400 for each (or around). The binos will be purchased for a project.

Szimi

I would go for 8x rather than 10x for reasons of brightness and field of view.

Perry

[harold9649]

Why not try the Leica Trinovid much cheaper than ultravids and yet still a good bino i have the 8x20.

Harold

[ceasar]

Originally Posted by SzimiStyle

What I need is some pocket size binos and don't want to spend more than $400 for each (or around). The binos will be purchased for a project.

Szimi

Szimi,
If your project involves other people using the binoculars it might be a good idea to consider using 8 power rather than 10 power binoculars. Many people have trouble holding binoculars steady and the 10 power magnification will increase the effect of their hand tremors on the view.

There are a number of quality compact reverse porro prism 8 x 25 binoculars that can be purchased for much less than $400.00, which will be brighter and much easier use than the double hinged compacts you are considering.

Bob

[Parker]

Szimi,

I bought my Girlfriend a pair of Leica 10x25BR Ultravid about 2 years ago, price £359, and she loves them (possibly more than me!). I have used them on occasion & am very impressed. I have also tried the Swarovski compacts & they are good optics but I thought them a bit to light in weight & they felt like a cheaper make. I have no experience with the other models you mention so i can't make a comparison. Unfortunately the price of the Leica's has increased to a ridiculas £479 over the last year so they are out of your budget, otherwise I'd recomend them. They are the best compacts I've looked through. I'm sure you could get a cheaper make that are of good quality but as I'm sure you know you get what you pay for. Good luck, cheers, Neil.

[denco@comcast.n]

Originally Posted by SzimiStyle

Hi Folks,

I am to buy several 10x25 compact binoculars but no idea which provides the best solution (no need to think about the price ) for birdwatching. Crisp view is essential.

I have very little experience [only tried the Leica Ultravid 10x25 (impressive image quality) and my kids have a Minox 8x25 compact (forgettable)] so interested in the performance of the following models:

Kowa 10x25 BD25-10
Leica Ultravid 10x25 BR
Nikon 10x25 Premier LX "L"
Swarovski 10x25 B
Zeiss Victory Compact 10x25 T*


Any comments are highly appreciated.

Cheers, Szimi

I have tried just about all the compacts except for the Kowa and the two I have are the Zeiss Victory T* 8x20's and the Nikon LXL 10x25's. I really like both of them and prefer them to reverse porro's. Don't let anybody tell you the 10x25 compact is not a good configuration. It is! The Nikon's are wonderful.

[elkcub]

I've done a great deal of birding with my 10x25 SLC, particularly shore birding, and wouldn't trade it for any other—except maybe a new one with Swarobright. It's my trusty companion on all worldwide travel. In general, I don't care for any variety of 8x20, which has a significantly lower twilight factor. Even though I've had essential tremor for 15 yrs, I have no problem holding them steady. Oh, ... they are also my preferred glass for bullseye target shooting other than a stationary spotting scope.

(Just a lone voice out here in the wilderness.)

Ed

PS. Lone except for Dennis.

[denco@comcast.n]

Originally Posted by elkcub

I've done a great deal of birding with my 10x25 SLC, particularly shore birding, and wouldn't trade it for any other—except maybe a new one with Swarobright. It's my trusty companion on all worldwide travel. In general, I don't care for any variety of 8x20, which has a significantly lower twilight factor. Even though I've had essential tremor for 15 yrs, I have no problem holding them steady. Oh, ... they are also my preferred glass for bullseye target shooting other than a stationary spotting scope.

(Just a lone voice out here in the wilderness.)

Ed

PS. Lone except for Dennis.

I listened to all the arguments about how the 10x25's are hard to hold steady and on and on until I got the Nikon's 10x25 LXL's. They are a fantastic pair of binoculars and the sharpest binoculars at the edge I have ever seen. I still like my Zeiss 8x20's but I love those Nikon's.

[Parker]

Originally Posted by denco@comcast.n

I listened to all the arguments about how the 10x25's are hard to hold steady and on and on until I got the Nikon's 10x25 LXL's. They are a fantastic pair of binoculars and the sharpest binoculars at the edge I have ever seen. I still like my Zeiss 8x20's but I love those Nikon's.

I havn't had chance to try the Nikon compacts but I've tried the 8x32HGL's & they were very good. If the compacts are as good, which they seem to be, then I'd go for those. They would also be less expensive than the Leica's or Swaro's. I also agree that they are easy to use & I've had no problem with shaking or a dim image.

ATB, Neil.

[Tero]

Originally Posted by elkcub

I've done a great deal of birding with my 10x25 SLC, particularly shore birding, and wouldn't trade it for any other—except maybe a new one with Swarobright. It's my trusty companion on all worldwide travel. In general, I don't care for any variety of 8x20, which has a significantly lower twilight factor. Even though I've had essential tremor for 15 yrs, I have no problem holding them steady. Oh, ... they are also my preferred glass for bullseye target shooting other than a stationary spotting scope.

(Just a lone voice out here in the wilderness.)

Ed
PS. Lone except for Dennis.

Yes, you point out the real problem, the 8x20s are just too small. I might have tried an alpha 8x25 by now. I played around with the reverse porros and 8x25 was the best I could do. I do not use any compact other than a 8x28 Bushnell now.

[Alexis Powell]

Originally Posted by SzimiStyle

Leica Ultravid 10x25 BR
Nikon 10x25 Premier LX "L"
Swarovski 10x25 B
Zeiss Victory Compact 10x25 T*

Those are all superb. My personal preference is for the Ultravid in a 10x25 as it has really nice ergonomics (in some ways similar to Swarovski 8x32 EL) and superb close focus. In the 8x20, I like the Ultravid and Victory almost equally.

I strongly recommend against the 10x25 Trinovid as a cheaper alternative to the Ultravid--the optics are a big step down, the ergonomics are not as good, and the close focus really is limited to 5 meters which can be a problem for woodland and shrubland birding (and makes them useless for butterflying).

--AP

[kristoffer]

I find 10x to be too shaky and hard to use. But maybe you have stable hands :)

[elkcub]

Not too long ago I wrote this piece about the 10x25 SLC. (See post #7)

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread....40#post1668340

My experience is that "image shake" can be almost eliminated by learning to wrap the 4th and 5th fingers around the barrel on one side, in my case the right, bringing the palms down, and tucking both elbows to the chest. This triangulates everything and here is almost no fatigue due to the low mass.

Ed

[elkcub]

Originally Posted by Tero

Yes, you point out the real problem, the 8x20s are just too small. I might have tried an alpha 8x25 by now. I played around with the reverse porros and 8x25 was the best I could do. I do not use any compact other than a 8x28 Bushnell now.

Tero,

Have you tried the 10x25 SLC? At 8.1 oz. I think it's the lightest of the bunch and provide a beautiful image with "reach." Of course, they aren't cheap, but in a world of $2500+ optics they are a bargain, IMO. I'm not impressed with the Nikons, altho some folks are. Too heavy & bulky for my taste.

Ed

[SzimiStyle]

OK, I am closing for the final decision. :) I am staying with compacts and looks like Nikon is a good choice however I'll try first. Too bad noone uses KOWA compacts. Unfortunately I can't wait for the BirdFair to test them :(

Szimi

[NWBirder]

Originally Posted by Perry Grin

I would go for 8x rather than 10x for reasons of brightness and field of view.

Perry

light weight with high power makes it quite a challenge to keep it steady. I would go with 8x route too.

[Tero]

Ed, no never seen it, only the 8x Swaro pocket model. Very impressed with that. I thought I was holding an 8x32 in hand, it had the big feel.

[elkcub]

Originally Posted by Tero

Ed, no never seen it, only the 8x Swaro pocket model. Very impressed with that. I thought I was holding an 8x32 in hand, it had the big feel.

Tero,

Very true, my wife uses one of those and loves it. Try the 10x25 if you get a chance though.

Ed

[Tero]

The Kowa 8x25 looks pretty good. The 10x has too narrow a fov.
http://www.eagleoptics.com/binocular...inocular-green

[denco@comcast.n]

Originally Posted by NWBirder

light weight with high power makes it quite a challenge to keep it steady. I would go with 8x route too.

Try a 10x25 Nikon LXL just once. The 25mm aperture really improves the view even though theoretically it shouldn't except for it has a better twilight factor. I think Consumer Guide rated them first once and after having them I can see why.