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Old Friday 22nd January 2010, 03:01   #26
Kevin Purcell
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CR == colour ring or in US Birding English "color band". But if he used cb you'd be really confused

i.e. reading the rings (or bands) or VID tags of marked birds (ducks and geese in his case). Seattle Crows or Cooper's Hawks (in my case).

From David's pt-duck web site:

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For cr-birding the main objective of your telescope is to have the best resolution at great distances. Ok, there are people reading colour rings with 10x binoculars or with a 20x eyepiece of a telescope but that’s not the most usual.
Well it is for me but in a urban area it's a bit easier. I really want a 15x Canon IS bin

See http://www.cr-birding.be/ for more info.

Last edited by Kevin Purcell : Friday 22nd January 2010 at 03:10.
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Old Friday 22nd January 2010, 05:39   #27
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OK, Thanks Kevin.
Sure a lot of waisted energy on getting to this.

Bands. Colo(u)r bands.
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Old Friday 22nd January 2010, 14:51   #28
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Aside from better internal baffling I wonder if the basic scope optics are changed at all in these new models. Apertures, focal lengths and the number of lens elements are all the same as the old Diascopes. I don't see any mention of a new optical design.
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Old Friday 22nd January 2010, 16:30   #29
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I've recently read where Meopta actually made the current Zeiss 85 T FL. Is this correct? I know Meopta supplies Zeiss with some glass, but if true didn't realize they actually made that spotter.
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Old Friday 22nd January 2010, 16:51   #30
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It would explain the yellow bias..

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Originally Posted by jgraider View Post
I've recently read where Meopta actually made the current Zeiss 85 T FL. Is this correct? I know Meopta supplies Zeiss with some glass, but if true didn't realize they actually made that spotter.
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Old Friday 22nd January 2010, 17:02   #31
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I've recently read where Meopta actually made the current Zeiss 85 T FL. Is this correct? I know Meopta supplies Zeiss with some glass, but if true didn't realize they actually made that spotter.
Glass is not supplied by Meopta.
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Old Friday 22nd January 2010, 19:29   #32
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Glass is not supplied by Meopta.
Where does it come from then?
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Old Friday 22nd January 2010, 21:16   #33
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Where does it come from then?
The glass comes from their normal sources for optics. The make is dependent on the glass with the correct refractive index.
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Old Friday 22nd January 2010, 22:22   #34
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Has Zeiss dropped its long standing close relationship with Schott?
These two companies have been the pioneers of optics technology for a century plus and I thought they were still very close.
Schott formulated the glass and Zeiss calculated and built the lenses.
Asahi is the Japanese counterpart, as far as I know, but presumably Bosma has its own sources in China..
Schott does supply other binocular makers, such as IOR, but presumably makes more money today from flat panel substrates and related technology applications.
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Old Friday 22nd January 2010, 22:27   #35
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Originally Posted by henry link View Post
I don't see any mention of a new optical design.
Phew! Thanks for that, Henry. Now I won´t feel a need to splash out a fortune on a new scope, especially as I´ve just done so on new Swaros. As regards "yellow bias" mentioned in an earlier post, my Zeiss FL 85mm doesn´t show it when used with Baader zoom or fixed eyepieces.
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Old Saturday 23rd January 2010, 10:57   #36
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Sancho,

I'll try to spoil your peace of mind a bit.

I don't think there was much need to tinker with the optical design of Diascopes anyway. Only with the quality of the implementation. It is not too much of an oversimplification to say that, assuming objective size remained the same, room for improvement was to be found in color balance, reduction of internal reflections and - in my view most importantly - production quality consistency. On my unrealistic wish-list would also have been the adoption of Fieldscope-type oversized offset Schmidt prism to make consistency easier to achieve.

Otherwise, possible improvements were in the area of usability and eyepieces, both of which break some new ground.

But we will only know after we have tried the beast.

And luckily for you, you can always just get the new zoom for a quarter of what the scope would cost.

Kimmo
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Old Saturday 23rd January 2010, 12:26   #37
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Sancho,

I'll try to spoil your peace of mind a bit.


.................you can always just get the new zoom for a quarter of what the scope would cost.

Kimmo
You can´t spoil my peace of mind today, Kimmo, I´ve taken delivery of my new Swaros and I´m feeling terribly "Zen"....


Old scope, new eyepiece. Now there´s a thought. It´s a shame Nikon didn´t do that with the Fieldscopes, I´d have kept my old ED82A if the new EDG eyepieces had fitted. I can´t wait to see the reviews you guys do on the new Zeiss vario-eyepieces. If I understand correctly, this means they have two magnifications, but "switch" rather than "zoom" from the lower to the higher, in the manner of Leica Duovid binos?
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Old Saturday 23rd January 2010, 14:23   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sancho View Post
If I understand correctly, this means they have two magnifications, but "switch" rather than "zoom" from the lower to the higher, in the manner of Leica Duovid binos?
No, it is just a new zoom, which "goes to eleven"... I mean up to 75x, without significantly sacrificing the FOV at 20x. IMO that is an amazing accomplishment if they have been able to maintain good image quality and viewing comfort. I couldn't find any information about ER.

Kimmo - I think Zeiss have always called their zoom eyepiece a "vario".

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Old Saturday 23rd January 2010, 16:25   #39
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Ilkka,

I have one Zeiss binocular catalog from 2004 and one Diascope brochure in English, and both call the 20-60x eyepiece a zoom. The brochure on the web right now calls both the old and the new zooms "Vario" eyepieces. So at least they have not been perfectly consistent about what they call them. But you are right, I may have read more into the Vario bit than it warrants.

On eye-relief, since the photos of the eyepieces standing side-by-side in the web-brochure seem to be in scale, one can measure/estimate the new vario to have an eyelens diameter perhaps 10% smaller than the old zoom. Since the field of view is almost but not quite as wide at 20x, eye-relief is likely to be very similar to the old zoom, perhaps slightly less.

Just enjoying speculation.

Kimmo
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Old Sunday 24th January 2010, 22:19   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kabsetz View Post
I don't think there was much need to tinker with the optical design of Diascopes anyway. Only with the quality of the implementation. It is not too much of an oversimplification to say that, assuming objective size remained the same, room for improvement was to be found in color balance, reduction of internal reflections and - in my view most importantly - production quality consistency. On my unrealistic wish-list would also have been the adoption of Fieldscope-type oversized offset Schmidt prism to make consistency easier to achieve.
The question was more not that there is "optical redesign" as clearly thre is some changes because the glare is supposed to be reduced and the scope does weight a few ounces more. But clearly this isn't a "start from scratch" redesign probably more of a extensive series of tweaks.

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Originally Posted by Sancho View Post
Phew! Thanks for that, Henry. Now I won´t feel a need to splash out a fortune on a new scope, especially as I´ve just done so on new Swaros. As regards "yellow bias" mentioned in an earlier post, my Zeiss FL 85mm doesn´t show it when used with Baader zoom or fixed eyepieces.
Having recently used a 85 FL on teh CBC (Lotutec version maybe 2 years old with a Vario EP) and noticed no yellow bias. And recently bought a second hand pre-Lotutec 65 FL (and Hyperion Zoom plus various 1.25" astro EPs) and noticed just a little warmish bias. I suspect this is due to changes in coatings over time and is perhaps more emphasized when you have both older "tubes" and older Varios. Add that to personal sensitivities and you can see why we have such a range of perceptions of the scopes color bias. Still I was susprised given the "neutral to cold" view of the Zeiss FL bins and the slightly warmer views of both scopes (though I'd say the 85 I tried was close to neutral).

It also made me more cognizant of color biases in a couple of other ED scopes I own -- perhaps haps more stacking them up and looking through them one after the other to see the effect. Clearly I need a Kowa or a Swaro as a reference

And yes the Meopta "yellow bias" connection crossed my mind too!

Sancho: how old is your 85 FL? If others want to chime in perhaps collecting serials (as we did for Nikon SEs) might clarify things a bit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kabsetz View Post
On eye-relief, since the photos of the eyepieces standing side-by-side in the web-brochure seem to be in scale, one can measure/estimate the new vario to have an eyelens diameter perhaps 10% smaller than the old zoom. Since the field of view is almost but not quite as wide at 20x, eye-relief is likely to be very similar to the old zoom, perhaps slightly less.
Zeiss seem pretty cognizant of ER so I doubt that's something they'd drop for the extra zoom especially in the mid range where you really need to.

It is interesting though that Swaro and Leica have zigged (with 25x-50x "double" range zooms and long ER at all settings) and Zeiss have zagged to "more than triple" 20x-75x and I (hope) acceptable ER at all zooms.

I guess which the folks prefer will become clear.
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Old Monday 25th January 2010, 06:10   #41
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dear Kevin

If zeiss does not have FOV that is flat and across the whole field through all the magnification, then I cannot see it competing with the others. I do not think that viewers will accept what has been acceptable in the past.
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Old Monday 25th January 2010, 18:33   #42
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If zeiss does not have FOV that is flat and across the whole field through all the magnification, then I cannot see it competing with the others. I do not think that viewers will accept what has been acceptable in the past.
I think by flat you mean "sharp at the edge". The Zeiss Diascope I've looked through have quite a flat field (i.e. little field curvature) but they do (like other Zeiss optical designs) have a fair amount of astigmatism at the edge (more noticeable at lower magnifications where they have wider FOVs especially with the 65mm).

The question is perhaps who are "the others" are. Clearly it doesn't bother current Zeiss owners including me. And others (e.g. Kimmo in this older Alula reviews -- of course it's now 6 or 7 years on).

http://www.lintuvaruste.fi/hinnasto/...S80HD_GB.shtml
http://www.lintuvaruste.fi/hinnasto/...copes_GB.shtml

And for some the price trade off (as these scopes are cheaper than the Kowa, Nikon EDG, Swaro and Leica) is worth it. Each to their own.

But perhaps you mean attracting people over from the other Big Scope makers: that may be more of an issue. Different scopes for Different folks but each time I look at the pricing of the others I rather gasp.

Perhaps they've improved the edge sharpness (another change in the optical design) or perhaps they're happy with the current design. It's a rather difficult one to bring up in the PR unless you've decided it's a big feature and it's now "sharp from edge to edge". I haven't seen that for the new Diascopes.

The other comment I meant to make before was the one about Zeiss switching to porro prism for the image erector. I think with both Zeiss and Leica they believe their roof prism erectors are as good as a porro and this would be an affront to their optical design and implementation skills
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Old Sunday 31st January 2010, 15:22   #43
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Just found this on youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvddimMD2PA
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Old Sunday 31st January 2010, 19:55   #44
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Just found this on youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvddimMD2PA
Very interesting.

They point out that the dual-speed focusing knob high speed engages after a full turn or so (in one direction) at low speed. So it's not a rate controlled mechanism.

Full retail price $3195 for 80mm scope body plus 20x to 75x EP. The EP will be $695 (he thinks).
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Old Friday 26th February 2010, 14:12   #45
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Another new Zeiss Scope

Beside the new DiaScope range there will be onother new scope (with fixed eyepiece):

http://www.orniwelt.de/products/Spek...-18-45x65.html

No infos on Zeiss' page so far.

Greetings,
Frank
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Old Friday 26th February 2010, 17:27   #46
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Originally Posted by frank.e.oy View Post
Beside the new DiaScope range there will be onother new scope (with fixed eyepiece):

http://www.orniwelt.de/products/Spek...-18-45x65.html

No infos on Zeiss' page so far.

Greetings,
Frank
Thanks for that link.

By fixed EP you mean non-removable as the scope is a zoom Spektiv Zeiss Dialyt 18-45x65. I originally though you mean non-zoom.

I also note that the site says: "Available as of Thursday, 01 April 2010". It's a bit early for April Fool's jokes but ... there is a terrible (scanned? ancient?) photo from the site attached below along with translation of the site.

The new spotting scope Dialyt shows its strengths under Widiger conditions where, in particular reliability, compact size and light weight are critical. Equipped with high-quality Carl Zeiss optics and the signature classic design is the newest member of the family Dialyt the ideal partner, wherever it comes to rapid deployment capability.

The lightweight, compact monobloc design with rubber coating makes the Carl Zeiss 18-45x65 Dialyt the ideal companion for the observation of birds, wildlife and nature. The water-and dust-proof housing, it qualifies for intensive use in harsh conditions. The practical focus front stabilizes the image in addition to observing domiciled.

As it can be transported easily in a backpack, is the Carl Zeiss 18-45x65 Dialyt also ideal as a second or Reisespektiv available. A robust and reliable with good Begeleitung Carl Zeiss optics!
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Last edited by Kevin Purcell : Friday 26th February 2010 at 17:31.
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Old Friday 26th February 2010, 19:14   #47
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As regards "yellow bias" mentioned in an earlier post, my Zeiss FL 85mm doesn´t show it when used with Baader zoom or fixed eyepieces.
Update: I was spectacularly wrong. It does show it with the Baaders too.
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Old Saturday 27th February 2010, 09:36   #48
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Where did you read this ?

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Originally Posted by jgraider View Post
I've recently read where Meopta actually made the current Zeiss 85 T FL. Is this correct? I know Meopta supplies Zeiss with some glass, but if true didn't realize they actually made that spotter.
JGRAIDER, I believed that the Diascopes you mentioned were made in Wetzlar, Germany though the glass may have been delivered to the assembly factory from elsewhere, for final lens manufacture by Zeiss, but as MAK states, made to Zeiss' specification. Guess the article is factually incorrect?

Many have requested and will want the higher magnification (particularly if it still resolves fine detail at the higher end) which is quite a departure from the recent "compacted" zooms that boast wider F.O.V.s.

Great to have options isn't it.
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Old Saturday 27th February 2010, 11:09   #49
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http://www.orniwelt.de/products/Spek...-18-45x65.html

The design looks great for backpacking.
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Old Saturday 27th February 2010, 20:05   #50
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JGRAIDER, I believed that the Diascopes you mentioned were made in Wetzlar, Germany though the glass may have been delivered to the assembly factory from elsewhere, for final lens manufacture by Zeiss, but as MAK states, made to Zeiss' specification. Guess the article is factually incorrect?
Are they?

The current Diascopes have Made in Czech Republic on them. My non-LT 65FL is a bit more ambiguous has Made by Carl Zeiss (but not Made in Germany). And my non-LT Vario Zoom has Made in Czech Republic on it.

Zeiss also make their spotting scopes in Czech Republic.

Talking to Scott at LibertyOptics also pointed out that Meopta OEM for Zeiss spotters (I'm not too sure how many other options they have in Czech Repulic).

Finally there is the yellow bias ... shared by Zeiss scopes and Meopta full size bins (but not the 32mm bins). That might be a coincidence but it's a curious one.

Quote:
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Update: I was spectacularly wrong. It does show it with the Baaders too.
I find my 65FL and Baader is warmer rather than yellow but it's not "blue white".

Care to say more, Sancho?

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http://www.orniwelt.de/products/Spek...-18-45x65.html

The design looks great for backpacking.
Does that look like a belt loop attachment to you under the scope?
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