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Old Saturday 31st July 2010, 23:35   #76
albatross02
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Originally Posted by Vámibimbero View Post
Dear all,

At www.orniwelt.de the new scopes from Zeiss are available. Price for 65 mm bodies: 1745 EUR, 85 mm bodies: 2295 EUR, 30/40x fixed ocular: 365 EUR, 15-45/20-60 ocular: 565 EUR, new megazoom 20-75x: 695 EUR, ever-ready case 175 EUR. Other shops offer the older modells in better price than before.

By the way, I am very intrested to read a comparative test about the new and old Zeiss modells or even an exhaustive test from the new modell. Today price is important and Zeiss have the chance to make a huge step forward.

Best regards

Vámi
The Orniwelt short time offer says 2295 Euro included 30 x eyepice.
The 20 - 75 x will be available at September.
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Old Sunday 1st August 2010, 20:24   #77
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I saw the new scope and eyepiece at Bird Munich about 2 weeks ago.

Unfortunetely the scopes are tested in the zoo and the only animals at this place was Giraffs about 50 m away.
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Old Friday 13th August 2010, 11:44   #78
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In Focus told me the new zoom is being launched (in the UK I presume) at the Birdfair next weekend. I find it strange that they release the bodies several months before the eyepiece!

Also has anyone else noticed a general lack of interest in these scopes, I seem to remember the new Leica and Swaro scopes causing lots more discussion, are Zeiss really so out of favour?

G
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Old Friday 13th August 2010, 20:47   #79
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They many have announced them (in other countries) but I've still not seen one. And I may be mistaken but I don't think anyone has reviewed one yet.

It's difficult to discuss them without actually evaluating them.

And they're not cheap too. I'm pretty sure all the top optics makers are having a bit of a problem shifting stuff right now.

Perhaps when a few folks here see them at Birdfair and write their comments up here or in the birding blogosphere (which I think is just outside Reading )?
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Old Sunday 15th August 2010, 02:46   #80
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They many have announced them (in other countries) but I've still not seen one. And I may be mistaken but I don't think anyone has reviewed one yet.

It's difficult to discuss them without actually evaluating them.

And they're not cheap too. I'm pretty sure all the top optics makers are having a bit of a problem shifting stuff right now.

Perhaps when a few folks here see them at Birdfair and write their comments up here or in the birding blogosphere (which I think is just outside Reading )?
Actually Kevin there is a Cabelas Outfitter near Reading here in Eastern Pennsylvania. I don't know if they have it but maybe Frank D. could find out. He goes there a lot.
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Old Sunday 15th August 2010, 13:35   #81
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Correction: Did go there alot.



How did you know I would be reading this thread?

:-)

Maybe a trip to Cabelas would be in order. Funny how Kevin said "Reading" and it was so appropriate in reference to the subject matter.
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Old Sunday 15th August 2010, 14:59   #82
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I had a quick look through a new DiaScope at my dealers' last week.
It had the 20-60x zoom; the 20-75x is still unavailable.
The dual-speed focussing was very impressive. There is about half a turn of very light and precise fine focus movement and the initial impression is that this is all there is. However, when one goes beyond this, the focussing is stiffer and much higher geared. With a reversal of direction, one is back in the fine focus mode. I am sure this would quickly become intuitive.
Silly me though, I didn't think to check whether Zeiss have changed to the almost universal clockwise to infinity focussing. The anticlockwise to infinity of the old Diascopes is something of an irritation along with their stray light performance. I was told that the new barrel coatings now have 99,9% light absorption as opposed to the 95% of the old Diascopes.

John
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Old Sunday 15th August 2010, 19:47   #83
ceasar
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Correction: Did go there alot.



How did you know I would be reading this thread?

:-)

Maybe a trip to Cabelas would be in order. Funny how Kevin said "Reading" and it was so appropriate in reference to the subject matter.
Call it a wild guess!

I have to make a trip there myself soon!
Bob
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Old Monday 16th August 2010, 18:09   #84
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They many have announced them (in other countries) but I've still not seen one. And I may be mistaken but I don't think anyone has reviewed one yet.

It's difficult to discuss them without actually evaluating them.

And they're not cheap too. I'm pretty sure all the top optics makers are having a bit of a problem shifting stuff right now.

Perhaps when a few folks here see them at Birdfair and write their comments up here or in the birding blogosphere (which I think is just outside Reading )?
Hi Kevin
I had keen to purchase a high end scope for some time and wanted to compare the Zeiss New Diascope 85 with the other high end scopes (Kowa TSN 883, Swarovski ATM 80HD, Leica APO Televid HD 82) with particular interest in the new eye piece offerings (wide angled zooms from Swarovski and Leica and the Zeiss 20-75). I was finding it difficult to locate a supplier that was accescible that had all 4 scopes available for testing.

I eventually found a stockist that had three of the above scopes, nfortunately not the Kowa and the available eyepiece for the Zeiss was the 20-60.

At the low end of the zoom there was nothing in it. Image quality and eye relief was superb in all, as you would expect when spending to this level. I wear specs and the eye relief is important to me. Viewing conditions were bright sunshine, clear blue sky and obvious heat haze.

On zooming to the other end the eye relief was not so good on the zeiss 20-60; it was like looking out through the mouth of a tunnel; albeit a wide tunnel. This may or may not be the case with the 20-75 but this was not available for testing.

With the Swarovski the eye relief was again good at the long end of the zoom but I experienced the kidney bean effect. I tried various ways to alleviate this problem but to no avail. Various posts have discussed this which indicate this can be overcome by a combination of familiarity and viewing technique but I could not work it out. Overall I spent about two and a half hours at the retailer and had to make a decision. However overall I think the Swaro had a very marginal edge over the Leica image at full zoom viewing objects at longer distances away.

I would like to have been able to compare with the Kowa system and the Zeiss with the 20-75. The retailer said the Zeiss 20-75 would not be available until September/October. So based on this and my impressions from the day I opted to buy the Leica. This was in June.

Patrick
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Old Saturday 21st August 2010, 14:46   #85
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Had a good luck at the new zoom and scopes at the Birdfair yesterday. Before I give a few thoughts about them I'll set out my requirements in a scope.

I already have a Zeiss 65 and regularly find that 45x is just not enough reach, but love the wide field of view. I also want a larger diameter scope for use when seawatching and looking at Waders on the Humber and Wildfowl on Hornsea mere both of which are large and birds are often very distant.

I'll keep the 65 to use when birding abroad.

I had expected the new 85 and 20-75 zoom would be the scope I would buy even before I had seen one due to how happy I am with the 65 and the ability to use the new lens on the old scope giving 56x

The new lens on the 65 is interesting, the lens is sharp nearly to the edges unlike the much criticised old one and seems much sharper at 45x it quickly becomes difficult to get sharp images above this though.

On the 85 the lens is breathtakingly sharp at lower mag and again is much sharper at the edges than the old 20-60 zoom at equivalent mag. once you wind the zoom up things are less impressive above 50x it really is not sharp.
This brings me to the new focus system....Why? It strikes me as fixing something that isn't broke, I understand how it works and it really is very simple in theory but just doesn't work intuitively. The old twin wheel set up is so much more logical in use. It is possible to use the focus system but it takes longer than the old style to find the sweet spot and by then the bird you want to look at might have gone!

I moved between the stands and looked at the competition and here's a few thought about how they stack up.

Swarovski 80 25-50 zoom. Very nice image bright and wide and sharp right up to max mag, very quick to achieve a sharp image but although I previously owned a 65HD I'm not a fan of this type of focus wheel.

Leica 82 25-50 zoom. Lovely image very difficult to tell any difference between this and Swaro without them being side by side. Ergonomics if focus wheel nicer than Swaro. Worries about coatings and after sales service.

Kowa 883 20-60 zoom. Wow... Last year I looked at these and wasn't impressed. This year I thought it was clearly the brightest and sharpest scope, it really is incredibly sharp at 60x. Focus wheel is well placed and easy to get sweet spot. Field of view not as wide as others but not as narrow as I remember from looking at them in the past.

This leaves me with this conclusion, I want more magnification than 45, the Swaro and Leica although fantastic but at 50x max I don't think they offer enough extra reach than what I have now. The Zeiss has the power but the image is very disappointing and the focus system fiddly. This leaves the Kowa which offers the power and a very bright sharp image but a slightly narrower field of view.

Before making a final decision I'm going to find a retailer that has all four scopes in to go and compare side by side properly but I suspect the Kowa will come out top.

G
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Old Saturday 21st August 2010, 15:08   #86
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Interesting that some think the Swaro heliocentric focuser is less good then the focus wheels on the other brands.

I really think that the focus wheels on other brands are fiddly and much harder to use then Swaros helio focuser, but opinions do differ :)
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Old Saturday 21st August 2010, 15:55   #87
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"On the 85 the lens is breathtakingly sharp at lower mag and again is much sharper at the edges than the old 20-60 zoom at equivalent mag. once you wind the zoom up things are less impressive above 50x it really is not sharp.
This brings me to the new focus system....Why? It strikes me as fixing something that isn't broke, I understand how it works and it really is very simple in theory but just doesn't work intuitively. The old twin wheel set up is so much more logical in use. It is possible to use the focus system but it takes longer than the old style to find the sweet spot and by then the bird you want to look at might have gone!"

Unless you are really having trouble with focus, this sounds like a not so good sample Zeiss 85 to me.
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Old Saturday 21st August 2010, 19:38   #88
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Interesting that some think the Swaro heliocentric focuser is less good then the focus wheels on the other brands.

I really think that the focus wheels on other brands are fiddly and much harder to use then Swaros helio focuser, but opinions do differ :)
Hi Kristoffer,
I don't think there's anything wrong with the focus wheel on the Swaro, as I said I used to own a 65 Swaro and loved it. I just prefer the other systems, I find I can rest my hand on the scope to steady it in windy conditions better whilst still being able to focus, it's just comfier, for me.

G
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Old Saturday 21st August 2010, 19:43   #89
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"On the 85 the lens is breathtakingly sharp at lower mag and again is much sharper at the edges than the old 20-60 zoom at equivalent mag. once you wind the zoom up things are less impressive above 50x it really is not sharp.
This brings me to the new focus system....Why? It strikes me as fixing something that isn't broke, I understand how it works and it really is very simple in theory but just doesn't work intuitively. The old twin wheel set up is so much more logical in use. It is possible to use the focus system but it takes longer than the old style to find the sweet spot and by then the bird you want to look at might have gone!"

Unless you are really having trouble with focus, this sounds like a not so good sample Zeiss 85 to me.
Steve
Hi Steve,
I don't think so, I definitely know how the focus works system works and got it in focus it just isn't sharp. And to be honest I doubt it was a dodgy instrument, the birdfair is the premier optics event for birders in Britain so Zeiss would be pretty stupid to bring along product without checking they were up to scratch.

G
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Old Saturday 21st August 2010, 20:17   #90
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Hi G, Try to find a Nikon 82ED scope and save the money for something else or the big Kowa and don't look back.;-) I have a Nikon 60mm non ED Fieldscope that will take 60x, starts to get dim but is usable.

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Old Saturday 21st August 2010, 20:52   #91
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Hi G, Try to find a Nikon 82ED scope and save the money for something else or the big Kowa and don't look back.;-) I have a Nikon 60mm non ED Fieldscope that will take 60x, starts to get dim but is usable.
Agree with that steve, unless you need a zoom with wide angle thats cheaper than the kowa then look at one of the others.
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Old Friday 27th August 2010, 15:25   #92
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A couple of years ago I looked through main big player high end scopes at a birding festival.
I'm one who does notice the warmth of Zeiss lens and LOVE it. It gives me more contrast and crispness.
However, I kept getting blackouts - no eye relief. I have bad eyesight, thick glasses.

Will this ever be fixed?
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Old Sunday 29th August 2010, 01:34   #93
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A couple of years ago I looked through main big player high end scopes at a birding festival.
I'm one who does notice the warmth of Zeiss lens and LOVE it. It gives me more contrast and crispness.
However, I kept getting blackouts - no eye relief. I have bad eyesight, thick glasses.

Will this ever be fixed?
That sounds like too much eye relief rather than too little.

I presume you are strongly myopic with a large negative prescription? In that case the large diverging lens in your spectacles increases ER.

Raise the eyecup from it's lowest position -- that should help.
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Old Sunday 12th September 2010, 12:46   #94
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Very interested in Gary1366's comments - but especially disappointed in your appraisal of the ability of the new Vario 20 - 75 x eyepiece to deliver a really sharp image above 50 x magnification!

I previously owned the first generation Diascope 85 T*FL with a 20-60 x zoom, which despite a few reservations, I was generally very happy with. This instrument I unfortunately managed to trash in an accident when I fell while birding in the pennines last month, but am now in the fortunate position of being offered a replacement by my insurance company. Their offer based on like for like, is to obtain the new Victory Diascope 85 with the new 20 - 60 X Vario eyepiece, (I could of course upgrade to the 20 -75), and certainly many features of this new scope look very appealing: -

The improved stray-light handling, improved field of view, full rubber amouring and even the Lotutec lens coating (not available on my 2004 model) all stack up in its favour. I note your reservations about the new dual speed focus, but would imagine that this is something that one would adapt to and hopefully in time come to prefer. However, clearly the principal concern of any birder is that of the primary function of a scope i.e. the quality, sharpness and brightness of the image, hence my concern at the comments made here.

The problem is that apart from your evaluation and a review in an american hunting magazine (that seemed to focus more on build quality) no other reviews are so far available. Nor are any of the new Vario eyepieces available to test with the new Diascope. I also agree that it is most unlikely that Zeiss would have brought along a duff scope or eyepiece to Birdfare but I do wonder or even hope that all the delays in the final launch of this product may, and I stress may be due to their trying to remedy this problem. At least they are not going to succeed with such a premium positioned scope if there really is a significant issue with image sharpness above 50 x magnification. I
probably wont get a straight answer but I will attempt to ask someone at Zeiss about this.

Meanwhile I have a dilemma - Do I go ahead and try to get my insurance company to obtain the Kowa TSN 883 with the 20 - 60 x zoom - a scope that is very well proven, or do I struggle through the migration period scopeless and either (i) hope for the best and put the new Zeiss on order, or (ii) wait until it is fully available, assess the reviews and test it for myself side by side with the Kowa etc? Given - the fact that I would hope that my next scope will last me many years - I should probably take the latter option and be patient.

But otherwise did anyone else out there get to try out the new Diascope at Birdfare with one of the new Vario lenses? It would be great to hear from you if you did!
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Old Sunday 12th September 2010, 14:47   #95
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With all respect to Garry, I also tested the new Zeiss scope with zoom lens at the Birdfair and thought the clarity was superb, even at high magnification.

For information, I currently use the first generation Diascope 85 T*FL with a 20-60x zoom. A friend who travelled to the Birdfair with me currently uses the top range Kowa with zoom - he was equally impressed with the new Zeiss and also found the clarity to be fantastic up to 75x.

For someone who often uses the Zeiss scope for seawatching my only concern related to the new zoom's smaller field of view, which although only c. 7% less, seemed tangible.

In summary, I guess it just goes to show that perceptions of high end optics can be a very personal thing.
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Old Sunday 12th September 2010, 22:48   #96
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A minor irritation with my old Diascope is that the focussing is anticlockwise to infinity, the opposite to most bins.
I had a second look at the new DiaScope at the Bird Festival in Bochum yesterday and noted that this aspect is unchanged.
Kowa, Leica and Swarovski all focus clockwise to infinity and with a major change in the focussing system it would not have been too much to expect of Zeiss to correct this anomaly.

John
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Old Monday 13th September 2010, 06:40   #97
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Very interested in Gary1366's comments - but especially disappointed in your appraisal of the ability of the new Vario 20 - 75 x eyepiece to deliver a really sharp image above 50 x magnification!

I previously owned the first generation Diascope 85 T*FL with a 20-60 x zoom, which despite a few reservations, I was generally very happy with. This instrument I unfortunately managed to trash in an accident when I fell while birding in the pennines last month, but am now in the fortunate position of being offered a replacement by my insurance company. Their offer based on like for like, is to obtain the new Victory Diascope 85 with the new 20 - 60 X Vario eyepiece, (I could of course upgrade to the 20 -75), and certainly many features of this new scope look very appealing: -

The improved stray-light handling, improved field of view, full rubber amouring and even the Lotutec lens coating (not available on my 2004 model) all stack up in its favour. I note your reservations about the new dual speed focus, but would imagine that this is something that one would adapt to and hopefully in time come to prefer. However, clearly the principal concern of any birder is that of the primary function of a scope i.e. the quality, sharpness and brightness of the image, hence my concern at the comments made here.

The problem is that apart from your evaluation and a review in an american hunting magazine (that seemed to focus more on build quality) no other reviews are so far available. Nor are any of the new Vario eyepieces available to test with the new Diascope. I also agree that it is most unlikely that Zeiss would have brought along a duff scope or eyepiece to Birdfare but I do wonder or even hope that all the delays in the final launch of this product may, and I stress may be due to their trying to remedy this problem. At least they are not going to succeed with such a premium positioned scope if there really is a significant issue with image sharpness above 50 x magnification. I
probably wont get a straight answer but I will attempt to ask someone at Zeiss about this.

Meanwhile I have a dilemma - Do I go ahead and try to get my insurance company to obtain the Kowa TSN 883 with the 20 - 60 x zoom - a scope that is very well proven, or do I struggle through the migration period scopeless and either (i) hope for the best and put the new Zeiss on order, or (ii) wait until it is fully available, assess the reviews and test it for myself side by side with the Kowa etc? Given - the fact that I would hope that my next scope will last me many years - I should probably take the latter option and be patient.

But otherwise did anyone else out there get to try out the new Diascope at Birdfare with one of the new Vario lenses? It would be great to hear from you if you did!
Of interest i was told by Stephen Ingrahm at the British Birdfair that the 65mm they had on display was (can't remember the exact terminology) a prototype. This implied that it wasn't perhaps as sharp as they liked?
The 85 was good, with the new zoom (i currently have the old 85 with 20-60 zoom), but im looking forward to using it away from the set up at Rutland.
Cheers
James
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Old Thursday 16th September 2010, 19:15   #98
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Thanks very much guys for all of your comments and inputs - I have also now spoken with some other birding friends who have also had very positive first-hand experience of the new Diascope - plus my insurance company has not been very forthcoming with offering alternatives - so have now taken the plunge and have taken up their offer of a new 85 TFL coupled with the 20- 75 x Vario. Meanwhile while I await delivery, estimated for mid October I have managed to borrow an ancient Bushnell Spacemaster with a 15 - 45 x zoom to get me through the next few weeks!

Will let you know how I get on once it arrives and I get it out in the field!

Happy birding!
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Old Thursday 16th September 2010, 19:56   #99
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just another very positive first experience here, i looked through one at the birdfair. Basically it was a stunning piece of kit and the quality of the whole package was great, the zoom eyepiece was excellent, it would be my scope of choice if I had the money too upgrade. Enjoy it when it arrives!
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Old Monday 20th September 2010, 19:59   #100
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Thanks for that michael23 - cant wait till it arrives - meanwhile the old Bushnell Spacemaster, which although hardly state of the art, still enabled me to have a most satisfying seawatch yesterday early am from Southwold - 10 sooties, a bonxie and a couple of pom skuas being the highlights - although a few of the more distant shearwaters required corroboration from friends with better optics! We also had an unusual whimbrel sp. with an all dark rump, but too quick flypast to be able to positively ID further!

Last edited by Baldibis : Monday 20th September 2010 at 20:05. Reason: realised I have repeated myself!
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