[falcondude]

There were quite a few discussions around 7x binoculars on the forum lately: 7x36 ED2, 7x36 Swift, 7x42 Meopta. Some folks also talked about 6x. I have to admit that I use 7x36 ED2 more often in the past few months. But I still grabbed my 8.5 EL or 8x ZEN ED pretty often too. Out in the field, most birders I met still use 8x or 10x power. Is 7x really making a come back? or it is just one of binoholics things?

[RJM]

I think lower powers with bigger exit pupils are just easier to use. More true in the Winter months at higher latitudes when you need as much brightness as possible and shivering makes a steady image more difficult.

Rick

[spyglass]

A lot depends on the kinda birdin' (or other activity) you're gonna do.....7x are great for woods, twilight, sports events.....not so good for shorebirds, lake birding, aircraft spotting, or plains or mountain hunding. ('Course, ya gotta have the aperature too).

I've got 2 7x binos that I wouldn't take for....a compact that can be along all the time, and a 7x42 for the aforementioned....both work wonderfully for their purposes. For years, 7x35 & 7x50 were the standards in the industry. The wisdom of those choices can be borne out once you've tried lotsa binos in different environs for different tasks. But a good 7x with medium aperature (36-40) is a great all-around.

[Kevin Conville]

Originally Posted by spyglass

A lot depends on the kinda birdin' (or other activity) you're gonna do.....

Yes. And, if one has a spotting scope with them.

I personally like to use low power bins when toting a spotting scope, which is nearly always now that I have an ED50. W/O a scope, I can see having the desire for more horsepower, in open country especially.

As to 7x bins making a comeback? Who knows really. I see just as many high power (12-16x) bins coming out.

[ronh]

Now how are we supposed to know anything about what non-binoholics are thinking? Is there like, an un-bino forum I could join?

[Martin Fagg]

Originally Posted by falcondude

There were quite a few discussions around 7x binoculars on the forum lately: 7x36 ED2, 7x36 Swift, 7x42 Meopta. Some folks also talked about 6x. I have to admit that I use 7x36 ED2 more often in the past few months. But I still grabbed my 8.5 EL or 8x ZEN ED pretty often too. Out in the field, most birders I met still use 8x or 10x power. Is 7x really making a come back? or it is just one of binoholics things?

I can't say that I've noticed anyone using them in the field but most 7x bins look just like their 8x counterparts. Apart from 7x35 porros which you don't see in use at all.

I am definitely interested in getting some though. I crave extra light gathering power recently as the weather has been so dark. It feels like dusk all day long.
I always have a scope with me so I don't think I'll miss the extra mag and I really like the sound of the 'easy' view that people talk about. I have never tried 7x so this really intrigues me.

Having said that my 8x32 Meoptas have a very easy view themselves (wide fov and big depth too and quite a good 3D effect) so any 7x has got to be very good to beat them. That's why I'm faltering in my decision making. I can't quite believe they will be as nice as my Meoptas. Except the 7x42 Meoptas, of course, but they are soooo heavy.

ED2s sound amazing but there's a lot of money to spend on postage if I don't like them.
I have some pondering to do yet I think

[NWBirder]

Originally Posted by spyglass

A lot depends on the kinda birdin' (or other activity) you're gonna do.....7x are great for woods, twilight, sports events.....not so good for shorebirds, lake birding, aircraft spotting, or plains or mountain hunding. ('Course, ya gotta have the aperature too).

That's why we always have more than one pair of binoculars. My starter binoculars are 8x and 10x. I started using 7x when I found myself constantly turning my heads in the woods. I now pack both sizes with me when I head out.

[Pinewood]

Hello all,

Might I suggest that we, birdwatchers and binocular enthusiasts, are an aging bunch. Some of us may be finding that eight power glass a little harder to us than when we were younger. Extra depth of field, easier aligning our eyes with five mm., or larger, exit pupil, and a tad more stability may be welcome to some of us.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur

[falcondude]

Originally Posted by Pinewood

Hello all,

Might I suggest that we, birdwatchers and binocular enthusiasts, are an aging bunch. Some of us may be finding that eight power glass a little harder to us than when we were younger. Extra depth of field, easier aligning our eyes with five mm., or larger, exit pupil, and a tad more stability may be welcome to some of us.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur

I enjoy large FOV of 7x. But I was pleasantly surprised to find out that it has better depth of field too.

[Kevin Conville]

Originally Posted by falcondude

I enjoy large FOV of 7x. But I was pleasantly surprised to find out that it has better depth of field too.

The FOV does not always widen going from say, 8x to 7x, but the depth of field always does as it is primarily a product of magnification.

[NWBirder]

Originally Posted by Kevin Conville

The FOV does not always widen going from say, 8x to 7x, but the depth of field always does as it is primarily a product of magnification.

I noticed that too. I guess the designer has the freedom to choose what to offer.

[oleaf]

7x seems to be a boomerang binocular. You get to it after trying all the other formats first. Or you come back to it after buying all the other magnifications.

Truly... 7x could be your only binocular. Yes... it is very good for shore birding especially when coupled with a spotter. Some experienced birders use 7x for hawk watching as well. You'll see just as good with 7x.

Some on this forum have said they "see" better with 7x. Do doubt due to better resolution.

For the people who have gone back to 7x after trying or owning 8x, 10x or more has to be because of all the benefits that lower magnification offers.

But... it's good to have choices.

Cheers

[Pinewood]

Originally Posted by oleaf

…
Truly... 7x could be your only binocular. Yes... it is very good for shore birding especially when coupled with a spotter. Some experienced birders use 7x for hawk watching as well. You'll see just as good with 7x.

Some on this forum have said they "see" better with 7x. Do doubt due to better resolution.

For the people who have gone back to 7x after trying or owning 8x, 10x or more has to be because of all the benefits that lower magnification offers.

But... it's good to have choices.

Cheers

Hello Oleaf,

I think the ideal combination of binoculars, is a good 7x and a good 10x. Like the Zen, or Zeiss 7x42m and a 10x32. Recently, I had either a 7x or an 8x, but no 10x, when I thought I spotted a wood duck across Central Park Lake. A 10x would have confirmed my identification but I was sure of the field markings.

I think some people see "better" with a good seven relies on the gestalt of the experience: wide FOV, better depth of field, stability and in the best of binoculars a field with decent edge sharpness.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur

[dalat]

Originally Posted by Pinewood

gestalt

Just curious: what does mean "gestalt" in English?

It's always interesting (but rare) to see what German words become when they make it into other languages...

[Pinewood]

Originally Posted by dalat

Just curious: what does mean "gestalt" in English?

It's always interesting (but rare) to see what German words become when they make it into other languages...

Hello Dalat,

It means an "organized whole that is perceived as more than the sum of its parts." I would define gestalt as the total experience.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur

[dalat]

Nice, I learned a new English word. My mother tongue did not help me much to figure out that one (in German, "Gestalt" is is "shape", "figure" and a few more meanings).
Cheers, Florian

[Pinewood]

Originally Posted by dalat

Nice, I learned a new English word. My mother tongue did not help me much to figure out that one (in German, "Gestalt" is is "shape", "figure" and a few more meanings).
Cheers, Florian

Hello Florian,

Perhaps, "the whole picture," brings it closer to the German. In the Berlin school of psychotherapy, it means "essence or shape of an entity's complete form" which brought the word to English.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur

[dalat]

Hi, yes that makes sense... Ok, but back to the binos, didn't want to hijack that thread with linguistics (which obviously isn't my speciality)

[oleaf]

Arthur,

Your observation is spot on. 7x in experienced hands makes a good combination. I think why some come back to this format after time with higher magnifications.

I think without the gestalt part it would be a boring mechanical experience to bird... not having to figure things out.

Cheers

[ceasar]

I've noted this before but now is a good time to repeat it.

Jerry Ligouri in his book HAWKS From Every Angle says at page 10: "I use 7x (magnification) binoculars for watching hawks because I prefer an extrawide field of view; however, many birders prefer the added power of 8x to 10x binoculars."

Bob

[falcondude]

Originally Posted by Pinewood

Hello Oleaf,

I think the ideal combination of binoculars, is a good 7x and a good 10x. Like the Zen, or Zeiss 7x42m and a 10x32. Recently, I had either a 7x or an 8x, but no 10x, when I thought I spotted a wood duck across Central Park Lake. A 10x would have confirmed my identification but I was sure of the field markings.

I think some people see "better" with a good seven relies on the gestalt of the experience: wide FOV, better depth of field, stability and in the best of binoculars a field with decent edge sharpness.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur

I mounted my binoculars onto a tripod during the weekend. I was astonished to see how much better the image all of sudden became. So much detail was lost in the handshake, although I thought I have rather stable hands.

[bralk]

Originally Posted by Pinewood

I think some people see "better" with a good seven relies on the gestalt of the experience: wide FOV, better depth of field, stability and in the best of binoculars a field with decent edge sharpness.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur

Couldn´t agree more and let me add another benefit = uncritical eye placement with a 7X42

cheers

Tom

[John Russell]

Originally Posted by bralk

uncritical eye placement with a 7X42

Well, that's true to a certain extent, but if my pupils are not perfectly centered in my 7x42 SLCs I see CA.

John

[Kevin Purcell]

Originally Posted by oleaf

Your observation is spot on. 7x in experienced hands makes a good combination. I think why some come back to this format after time with higher magnifications.

I think without the gestalt part it would be a boring mechanical experience to bird... not having to figure things out.

True I love to Jizz ID birds too. But at the same time there are some pairs of species (or subspecies) that you need to see a particular field mark to place them in one or the other species (or determine that their a hybrid). Or you need to read VID tags or rings/bands on birds.

I notice the comment that lots of experienced birders use lower magnifications. Two comments on that. The birders (like Peter Dunne, David Sibley, Roger Peterson) all are Eastern birders where habitats tend to bias more towards close in rather than distant birds. I also suspect some of them have rather better sight than most of us (though Sibley is a glasses wearer) a sort of contributor factor to becoming a birder. A person with 20:10 vision will see the same details through a 7x bin that a person with 20:14 vision will see through a 10x.

As your eye limits the resolution seen through a bin then the magnification limits the resolution up to about 12x The real trade off is magnification versus FOV that you can seen. Making things bigger makes the identification quicker (if the bird stays in the field) but finding the bird is easier with a bigger FOV.

Another hidden part of this trade off is glare reduction in smaller FOV bins tends to help higher magnification bins.

Shake can be dealt with (very effectively with either IS or a tripod or monopod (as seen above). Both methods show that you get perhaps 30% more resolution from the same bins. But if you cant' use either then reducing magnification is the only way to go handheld.

If only someone made an IS bin with all the features I want with a good warranty for a decent price

In the meantime I pick the magnification for the habitat (and hope I don't end up in places that seem common in the PNW with both forested areas and wide open marshes or prairies or seawater/lake views) so I have 6x, 7x, 8x and 10x bins and some spotter scopes to hand.

One other interesting possibility is perhaps to team a wide FOV 7x (Zeiss FL 7x42 or ZR 7x36 or Nikon ATB 7x35 ... I have all of them) with a Canon 15x50 IS for those times you need more magnification. Easier to carry than a spotter and it uses both eyes. And parallels the technique used by the US Army (with 7x M22 or M24 and the 14x IS M25).

But I often get the feeling I have the wrong bin with me but that may just be me

[oleaf]

Good thoughts Kevin,

Honestly, if I get the time to get out and bird I don't care what's in my hands... I'll make it work. Maybe why 7x works best for all the places I go. Nothing at stake if I don't get an ID.

Cheers