[pdh]

I'm looking for help with buying new bins -- What and Where. This isn't a plea to know "which are the best bins" as I know I need to handle a few and make my own decision.

I've been a walker who likes to "bird" casually for a long while, but I've recently agreed to a little challenge (most UK species in 2010) with an old friend who got me interested in birds in the first place, and it's re-awakened my interest in birding.

My Opticron HR 8x42s (Porro) are at least 15-years-old, and while they are still in excellent nick optically, I've come to realise that they don't suit my eyes -- I have a narrow IPD at 54-55mm -- and I constantly have them on the move trying to hit a "sweet spot". This is tiring and unsatisfactory.

I'd like to replace them. I know that 8x40 are going to be the best compromise for me -- I don't have steady enough hands for 10x, plus I want low weight and bulk. I tend be be looking at birds on cliffs and shores, and at wetland/small lake reserves.

I'm fortunate to be able to afford a decent high-end pair. So Ultravid HD or Victory FL are not out of the question. In fact, from my researches on the 'net, it does seem as though the only type I'm likely to find that suit my narrow IPD are Zeiss, Leica or Swarovski roof prisms.

In case I've missed something, I am seeking other suggestions or observations that more experienced users may have.

The other thing is that I struggle with is that while optical dealers like LCE in Salisbury and Ace in Bath carry a good range of glasses, they are city-centre based and so it's hard to get a feel for how anything I'm looking through might perform in the field. When I lived in Eastern England, there seemed a few rural or reserve-based dealers, but I haven't been able to locate any down in my neck of the woods.

So, anyone know of similarly located dealers down in Dorset/Wilts/Somerset?
And how do other people go about picking between bins (which might be costing a month's salary) if they can't get them out into a more realistic environment than a city street?

Thanks in advance for any help.

[NoSpringChicken]

South West Optics (swoptics.co.uk) are based in Truro in Cornwall. I don't know if this is close enough to you. They stock Leica, Nikon and Swarovski as well as some cheaper brands. Most of their prices are quite competitive. According to their website there is "a long distance view at the shop" and "further critical testing can be done at parkland just behind the shop". I don't know if this helps.

Ron

[4John]

pdh,

Some LCE branches used to do regular 'Field/Optics Days' at various birding locations. Can't see anything current on their websites. Might be worth giving them a call ?

Mark

[pdh]

@NoSpringChicken -- thanks for the reply. I'd noted SWOptics before (the proprietor has a blog going with some wonderful photography on it too), but unfortunately Truro is a 300+ mile round trip for me; I may be able to drop in as I'd hope to be going down to Cornwall anyway in the near future.

@4John -- thanks also -- I'd forgotten the existence of field days!

paul

[Perry Grin]

At-infocus do field events, the following link is for events in the south west http://www.at-infocus.co.uk/events.html.

I've bought from these guys before and always found them patient and helpful, though they aren't always the cheapest and don't have the most extensive range. Check out their stock list on their website.

Perry

[DavidinParis]

A bit closer than Truro is London Camera Exchange in Winchester. They specialise in birding optics so might be worth a visit although a phone call first could help.

DiP

[The Kerreran]

LCE and InFocus do field days at various nature reserves - usually one a month for InFocus [moving around the whole south west], and for each branch of LCE [each has its own 'usual' reserve; for example, LCE Exeter go to Dawlish Warren on the Exe]. I don't know where LCE Bath go to, but they'd probably be fairly close.

LCE also have a new branch at Chew Valley Lake - specifically to make field testing easy. I went up there when I was in your position in late 2008, to see a special event for the new Swaros [a long trip from Devon] and it's well worth a visit. I don't know if they have all of the big three, but they should.

Doing a side-by-side of the big three and finding what fits not only your eyes but your hands is definitely the way to go. At this price the optics are of such quality that the differences are pretty much in style of view; Zeiss go one way, Swaro another, and Leica are more or less in the middle. Ergonomics are a big part of choosing Alpha bins, you'll be using them for possibly the rest of your life, so pick what feels best to your eyes and hands.

[pdh]

Ah that's excellent, thanks VERY much Tom
LCE don't list CVL on their site that I can see, but it's perfect for me -- an hour or so away and exactly the sort of birding I like.
Plus I'm hoping to get up to Norfolk soon to visit friends so might be able to get to Cley Spy too.
Oh dear. It does look as though February might prove expensive ...

[The Kerreran]

You're very welcome!
The shop is mentioned on the CVL Birding site - unfortunately they are only open Thurs/Fri/Sat

[pdh]

Here's how the story ends:

Went up to Chew Valley Lake to Lakeside Optics (it's an annex of the Bath branch of LCE) today. I met Phil and Simon, and they could not have been nicer. They were attentive when needed and then just let me get on with comparing a few pairs for nearly an hour on my own.
The shop is attached to the Reserve Centre-cum-teashop and there's a water's edge, some woodland and hedegrow and a distant shore to use when comparing. Oh, and there's a few birds there too ...

I tried Leica (Ultravid HD) and Swarovski (new EL Swarovision ) in 8x32 and 8x42 and a Zeiss Victory FL in 10x42.

Even had they had an 8x Zeiss I'm sure I would have rejected it as quickly as I did the 10x -- it just felt wrong. Ugly and ordinary.

I didn't feel either of the 32mm fitted my hands. Although almost tiny, and easily pocketable in a walking jacket, they both felt as if, in use, I would be fumbling with them all the time.

So I went on to the 8x42s.

The Swarovski were just extraordinary visually. There was simply no comparison even with the Leicas. I felt if I bought them I would never have an excuse for not making an identification, other than my own lack of skill and knowledge.

It so happened they were selling the Leicas at a very keen price (as they are the Swarovski, compared to the retail price), but that wasn't the deciding factor.

In the end I plumped for Leicas, simply because they felt exactly right in my hands and at my eyes. The Swarovski felt less well balanced and a little too big (though not heavy).

Would I have paid another £300 for the Swarovski if they had handled identically to the Leicas? Emphatically yes -- even though I also noticed a "looming" effect as I panned (is that what's called the "rolling ball effect" ?) -- they really were that much better.

This experience (as a novice purchaser of what I have now learned to call "alphas") underlines the advice I've so often read here, given to people who ask "what are the best bins?" -- the best are the ones that suit you best. Optical performance is not the sole criterion, it's the gestalt that matters.

If you're within striking distance of Bristol/Bath, and want to buy optics, this is a really good place to go. And I'll be going back to the Lake -- it seems a great venue for birdwatching.

Paul

[socksitis]

Paul,
that has to be one of the best threads I have read - succinct! Well done on making the choice - I am still dithering, loved the Leica, but loved the Swaro's, cannot make my mind up.

[NoSpringChicken]

Well done Paul. That's the way to do it. I wish I was that decisive. As you say, I proves that there is no substitute for trying out a few pairs before making your decision. I am sure you have made a good choice.

Ron

[The Kerreran]

Congratulations on your new bins, Paul!
I'm a proud Leica owner myself - for me the Zeiss had the most enjoyable view, but ergonomics ruled them out [my stubby fingers can't reach the focussing wheel comfortably]. The Leicas beat the old Swaros comfortably on ergonomics and narrowly on optics - just goes to show how much the new ones are an improvement.
You've definitely summed up choosing optics - judge the gestalt!

[pdh]

It's really heartening that people not only want to offer advice, but are interested in the outcome and the process leading to it.

Thanks to all.

At the risk of being less succinct, I'll just expand a bit on why the Leicas got the vote in the end:

I can imagine a time when, in the dying twenty minutes of light at the end of a day, I'll be peering into the murk of a marsh edge or shoreline, trying to pick out some detail that will distinguish a scarce from a common, and wishing I'd bought the Swarovskis.

But in order to get that point, I have a lot of fieldcraft to learn and ID skills to acquire. It's probably years away -- at the moment I'm back at the point where I can't pick a snipe from a godwit.

So I want to spend lots of time out there looking and learning and enjoying myself, and feel I'm more likely to do that when I don't even notice what it is I'm looking through, rather than being constantly aware of a slight lack of ease.

Now I'm off to Norfolk for a few days, to do exactly that I hope ...