[opticoholic]

Please respond below only if you would really like to see some new premium quality porro prism style binoculars on the market. Please reply only once and keep your remarks brief. I'm curious how many people might sign onto this thread. Who knows, maybe the binocular makers will consider it someday.

It seems all the binocular makers have decided that roof prisms are sexier, that only a roof prism can compete in a market flooded with roof prisms. But the pendulum has swung too far, to the point where almost no premium porro options exist, and many people do not know how good the view through a really good porro prism can be. I have heard it is more difficult to make porro prism binoculars waterproof, but it cannot be that hard. Acknowledging the disadvantages of the porro style, I have to believe there is a market for a water-resistant, optically superb and well-designed porro, with twist-up eyecups, priced well below the "alpha" roof prisms but with an image that really challenges them. "I have a DREAM! ...about a porro prism binocular just waiting to be built... IF YOU BUILD IT, PEOPLE WILL BUY IT."

Thanks everybody!

[BobinKy]

Yes...YES...Y E S

Bring back premium porros!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bob
Kentucky, USA

[etudiant]

The porro design lost out, imo, because the roofs provided real all weather protection and much better shock resistance than even the military porros. The optical benefits of the porro are too easily lost when the optics are jostled.
It is normal for used porros to be seriously miscollimated, judging from years of collecting experience.
Bringing them back up to scratch is usually a hundred dollar proposition.
It seems that roofs tend to be less fragile, so over time they represent a better value for consumers. This perception will need to be overcome if any porro is to reemerge in the marketplace. However, judging by the apparent retreat of even Nikon from the ranks of the premium porro makers, industry itself has no confidence that such a reemergence is possible.

[Fireform]

I would love to see the best porros updated and would certainly buy such a binocular.

[oleaf]

Didn't Minox just discontinue exactly what you were asking for? Internal focus, twist up eye cups.

The Nikon 8x32 SE is one of the best views ever. And they don't sell anymore.

What's wrong with a new Swaro Habitch or Nikon SE? You can buy one new
and these are binoculars with a build quality you won't see again.

Buy one before they stop making them and take 'em out only on Sundays.

Cheers

PS. Actually the consumer decided roofs were better.

[Ardy]

I think it's been discussed here...A Nikon 8x32 SE.. WP with ED glass....and a better (low temp) focuser...

[BinoBoy]

Count me in!

[Mono]

Not being a binocular fetishist I'm puzzled on a couple of points.

Why would a waterproof, internally focusing porro made of the same quality glass be "priced well below the "alpha" roof prisms", if the production costs are so much less then surely someone would make them, it can't be all down to fashion.

Isn't a porro design always physically bigger for a same specification?

[James Bean]

I think I have the answer. Place in a bowl a Swift 8.5x44 Audubon 804, a Nikon 8x32SE, and a Zeiss Jena 8x50BGA Octarem. Stir briskly, adding new technology and twist-up eyecups, until thoroughly mixed. You will now have a medium-sized porro with a superb, large, 'walk-in' view, well-secured prisms, ergonomic body armour, waterproofed, good eye-relief with no 'blackouts', smooth focus, adequate dioptre/IPD adjustment, optical perfection, with 100% edge to edge sharpness/3D depth, built to last a thousand years. If only... Or just save all three from the mix and use in rotation, reserving the Octarem for inclement weather.

[spacepilot]

I would like to see upgraded 8x and 10x Nikon SE with 20mm eye relief (for my fit-over sunglasses), better eyecups, and waterproofing, but keep the view and ergonomics the same. Then I'll be set for life. kthxbye

Ning

[Tero]

Sure, the 8x32 kind.

[vop]

Yes, why not?

[Kevin Purcell]

Not to knock this off track but just having someone make 8x30ish porro (e.g. Celestron 8x30 Nature, Leupold Yosemite, EO Raptor, Vortex Raven enclosure) with ED glass, perhaps slightly more state of the art eyepiece to widen the AFOV, some minor glare reducing tweaks (grooved prisms and perhaps slightly better prism baffling) and slightly more consistent build would make most porro loving birders really happy. They would be small and light too.

The real problem (aside from weather problems) is bin makers don't want to make good cheaper bins that compete with their much more expensive bins. So they won't want to make smaller, lighter porros.

If you are going to see this from anyone it will be a Chinese manufacturer and smart but not premium marketing brand.

[NWBirder]

I don't think any manufacturer will cook up a special binoculars just for a few dozen binoholics lurking around BF. All my friends use roof binoculars.

[Sancho]

I don´t need anyone to bring back premium porros, ´cos I have 8x and 10x EII´s. (I had SE´s too, but that was just too much overlap, and I prefer EII´s). If I decide to keep the EII´s, I won´t buy any more porros. If I decide to sell them eventually, it will be because they don´t get used much - for reasons posted above by others, more durable roofs are used more. All I miss in the roofs is the 3D, wide, FOV. If I knew which "one" binocular was my favourite, I´d have only "one" binocular. Meanwhile, EII´s and SE´s are still available new for those that want them, as are Habichts, etc.

[Alexis Powell]

I agree in part w/Kevin and Sancho. I'd say forget premium roofs, I'd just like to see and equivalent of the Nikon EII back in production, and priced at about $200.

--AP

[Pinewood]

Originally Posted by Sancho

I...more durable roofs are used more. All I miss in the roofs is the 3D, wide, FOV. If I knew which "one" binocular was my favourite, I´d have only "one" binocular. Meanwhile, EII´s and SE´s are still available new for those that want them, as are Habichts, etc.

Hello All,

Sancho makes some good points but the market lacks wide field roof glasses because the prisms would become so big as to make the whole binocular too bulky for common fashion and for common preferences. I gave up my 8x30 EII, when I realized that the FL was wide enough and far more robust. There has never been a wide field, waterproof, center focussing binocular, to my knowledge. Perhaps internal focussing precludes wider fields, so I think that ideal Porro binocular is unrealizable.

No major company wants to sell a $400 binocular, when they can be selling $900 binoculars, as the profit per unit is not high enough. If indeed, Swift Audubons, Nikon EII's and SE's are disappearing from the American market, then some importer would contemplate selling a clone but it will be no great improvement on what was available, four years, ago.

Since the OP wanted one response, I will write that I do not expect any Porro, for bird watching. to make me give up my Zeiss FL. For astronomy, I would want a Porro because waterproofing is of no consequence but higher light transmission is of importance.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur

[pete_gamby]

So should we be doing an 8x32 HR WP for all you porroholics?! :-)

http://www.opticron.co.uk/Pages/hrwp.htm

[falcondude]

Originally Posted by pete_gamby

So should we be doing an 8x32 HR WP for all you porroholics?! :-)

http://www.opticron.co.uk/Pages/hrwp.htm

Need ED glass, 8x32 or 7x35! Need to boost the FOV (8x with 112m FOV does not work for me). Close focus of 5ft will be ideal for 32mm one.

[Fireform]

The IF design makes it waterproof but narrows the field of view too much. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I see waterproofing as the lowest priority when it comes to refining the roof prism design.

[Kevin Purcell]

Originally Posted by Fireform

The IF design makes it waterproof but narrows the field of view too much. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I see waterproofing as the lowest priority when it comes to refining the roof prism design.

The focuser design should have no impact on the FOV.

[quote=pinewood There has never been a wide field, waterproof, center focussing binocular, to my knowledge. [/quote]

You don't define wide FOV but here are two counter examples of wide FOV waterproof porros: the Celestron Ultima DX 8x32 has a more than 8 degree (8.2 degree, IIRC) and the Bushnell Legend 8x42 with about the same (> 8 degree ... 430 feet) FOV.

And both heavy too at more than 30oz.

I think the 8 degrees or more in an 8x is the wide FOV I'm looking for (more in a 7x). Flatten the field. Give decent ER. Control the glare. Keep it like. Minimize the longitudinal CA with ED objectives and EP that control lateral CA.

You might persuade ZR to go down this route. They did the 7x36 ED2 which is both unusual and uncommonly good (if only it has slower but looser focus).

BTW, to the OP you should make the thread a poll is you want a count of opinions. If you ask the right question(s) you might even get a valid answer (the "Would you buy a porro of this specification and price?").

This is a discussion forum (which is what your going to get!).

[Fireform]

The internal focusing porros from Opticron, Leupold, Minox all have unusually narrow FOV--around 330' for 8x. If that's not a consequence of the focuser design, then what?

[Dean L]

I've just ordered a new pair of Nikon 12X50 SEs, already own a pair of 8X32 SEs and a pair of Canon 10X42Ls, all of which are porros, so, I guess the answer is yes. Of course, lowering the price on Zeiss FLs by 50% or more would probably negate any need I might feel for new, improved porros, but we all know that isn't going to happen.

The secret to success is, and always has been, to give the consumer what they want at a price they are willing to pay. Most folks seem to want roofs, but I certainly prefer the view through porros. What I don't know is how much of my preference comes from the fact that I can own all three of the binos listed for only slightly more than the cost of one pair of Zeiss FLs.

Dean

[stereotruckdriver]

Originally Posted by Fireform

I would love to see the best porros updated and would certainly buy such a binocular.

I would to but, until then I will just keep using my 8x32 SE! Bryce...

[oleaf]

Originally Posted by Fireform

The internal focusing porros from Opticron, Leupold, Minox all have unusually narrow FOV--around 330' for 8x. If that's not a consequence of the focuser design, then what?

It's a consequence of the same manufacturer for all the binocular models listed. They're all based on the same design

Cheers