[abaugh]

Hello forum!

I am a biologist about to embark on a couple of years of ornithology research (Parus) and am looking to invest in a lifetime pair of 10x binoculars. I'm hoping to get some feedback on choosing between the following 4 binoculars:

Kowa 10.5x44 Genesis XD44
Steiner 10x44 Peregrine XP
Zeiss 10x42 Victory T* FL
Leica 10x42 Ultravid HD

Besides top rate optics, my two priorities are a short minimum focus (the Leica is not great on this metric) and bombproof durability.

These four models seem like they all roughly meet my needs, but I'd love to hear specific feedback from users of any one or more of the ones listed here, or a model that I might be overlooking.

Also, if anyone knows whether purchasing german binos in the US is better/worse than in Germany in terms of cost.

Thanks!
ATB

[statestat]

Welcome to the forum ATB,
I would aviod the VAT and I have heard that the US warranty is better, but not sure why.
I tried to reply earlier and but computer locked up, so let me try again. I have the Steiner Peregrine XP in 8x and they are my favorite bins now, passed my Leica Trinovid 10x42. Great close focus, 6.5 feet, bomb-proof yes, maybe milspec, w/30 yr warranty so no worries. The best ergonomics on your list, with the open-bridge design easy to hold, feel much lighter than posted weight with the excellent harness and attachment design, no studs protruding. Very bright view my pair have a average size 'weet spot' but comparable. And if you are in AustinMN they work great in sub-zero, but if you are in AustinTX I can not speak to their high temp performance. Try them and I'll bet you will be amazed.

[Fireform]

I'm not familiar with the Steiners, though I've heard good things about them. I would suggest either the Zeiss FL or the 10x Swarovision. View through the Swaros is a little better than the Zeisses and they focus to 4.5 feet(!). Street price on the Zeisses is a good bit less than the Swarovisions. Both have lifetime warranties to US purchasers, and Swaro especially has an exemplary record of taking care of their customers.

[Kevin Purcell]

US prices tend to be cheaper. There is no VAT (but you may have sales tax ... perhaps not in TX).

The EU warranties are now limited to 10 years but lifetime warranties

Another consideration is weight especially with the Kowa which has got good reviews but it is rather heavier than the other bins you list.

One question about your parid fieldwork is why you need 10x bins?

I know most folks in the field tend to prefer lower magnification bins (and it certainly makes a difference after a full day in the field). Are you reading bands at a long distance? Or are you observing behavior?

You mention close focus which makes me think you might be close in. I can't imagine following a close in parid with 10x bins. I do try I find the local Black-capped Chickadees make great "realistic" test targets for testing out bins with both high contrast face patterns and subtle back and side shading.

[abaugh]

Hi Kevin - yeah, I will be both ID'ing bands and doing behavioral observations. I'm not terribly concerned with weight (all else equal, lighter would be better of course). That said, it would be nice to try out an 8x and 10x back to back to get a better feel for which would be best for small songbirds in forested and semi-open environments.

Thanks for the input!
ATB

[Kevin Purcell]

That said, it would be nice to try out an 8x and 10x back to back to get a better feel for which would be best for small songbirds in forested and semi-open environments.

You should seriously consider 8x (or even a wide angle 7x depending on habitat). I can't imagine using 10x in a forested environment (I've tried!).

The problem is the bins that make it much easier to ID the bird at the top of the canopy is a pain to use when the bird is 3m away foraging. 8x ends up as the comprise for these.

If at all possible try the bins in use before you settle on a set (or even a spec) to see if it will work for your tasks. For example I know rainforest researchers following bellbirds (a canopy top bird) carry both bins and scopes to do band ID. My experience of (amateur) band reading on crows in Seattle is 8x is good enough if you can get close but 10x is better and a spotter is even better.

Images stabilized bins are another possibility though one wonders about ho much abuse they will take. I do like my Canon IS bins for this sort of use.

Have you done similar fieldwork before? What did you use on that occasion?

Wear the bins for 8 hours and then tell us you are not interesting in weight

Will you be working at twilight? If not then even a 32mm may suffice but I suspect you need to cover that base (just in case).

[John Russell]

I faced a similar choice to you last year, just substitute the Swarovski 10x42 EL (pre-Swarovision) for the Steiner.
I also have 7x42s and would agree with Kevin that the lower magnifications are more suitable for general use. With a 10x bin in woodland you will be searching for the bird in the third dimension because the depth of field is so limited. At equivalent distances the 7x bin has double the DOF and an 8x, 56% more than the 10x bin.
I doubt that you will need close focussing under 3m unless you are watching butterflies. With a 10x bin this is equivalent to viewing with the naked eye(s) at 30cm and would necessitate reducing the interpupillary distance.
Nevertheless, some comments on the 10x bins:-

Kowa 10,5x44 - optically excellent, low CA, somewhat heavy, uncomfortably large diameter eyecups if used without glasses.

Swarovski 10x42 EL (old model) - large amounts of CA, inadequate eye relief for use with glasses.

Leica 10x42 Ultravid HD - small overall dimensions, more suited to smaller hands, optically very good but shows CA if pupils are not perfectly centered.

Zeiss 10x42 FL - what I eventually bought, just edged out the Leica due to neligible CA and dimensions better suited to large hands.

Best of luck with your search.

John

[BobinKy]

My recommendation is the Kowa 10.5x44 Genesis XD 44 -- excellent optics, 5.5 ft minimum focus, 6.2° FOV, great price.

http://www.kowa-prominar.com/catalog/pdf/genesis44.pdf

If the other guys talk you into the a smaller size--no sweat, get the Kowa 8.5x44 Genesix XD 44.

Either way--go with Kowa and don't look back.

...Bob
Kentucky, USA

[spitfiretriple]

I won't comment on the full-size birding bins mentioned. But at the risk of being accused of suggesting you weigh yourself down with kit, have you heard of / considered the Pentax Papilio? It wouldn't be a candidate for one-and-only bin, but as a second bin optimised for CF, it is a little gem. Google "Pentax Papilio review", or checkout the reviews on Amazon, and you'll see what I mean. Expect to pay around $100/$150.

[Kevin Purcell]

Or even look for Papillo reviews here (there are a few).

And you can find it for less than $100 at cameraland ... he's been letting them go recently. The 6.5x is the better one IMHO.

[Steve C]

You are looking at some expensive glass. I don't know of a single magnification that would be best for everything. Have you considered the Leica Duovid 8 & 12x42. One thing dual power binoculars do is decrease the fov, particularly at higher magnification, but the Duovid is still pretty decent at 8x. One flip of the lever and there may be the extra ability to read the band. I have a Leupold Switch power 7/12x32, which is a small glass, and really decent at 7x. It is a lot better at 12x at closer distances, and all in all, I would rather have the 8-12 capability and extra glass at 12x of the Duovid. The Duovid is more money than a single magnification top tier glass, but you will have two binoculars in one package. They are a little heavier too, so the potential negatives of that for you, along with the extra cost are certainly things you need to consider. Knowing myself, I'd go with 8x in your place. I happen to prefer the Steiner Peregrine XP. Good luck, sounds like fun

[abaugh]

Thanks for all the feedback folks. I'm narrowing down my list, incorporating some of your suggestions. The frontrunner for me at the moment is the Leica 8x50 Ultravid HD. There seems to be a fairly good set of reviews on the 8x42s, but I haven't come across reviews for the 8x50s.

Anyone out there had any hands-on experience with the Leica 8x50 Ultravid HD?

[blizdas]

Originally Posted by abaugh

Thanks for all the feedback folks. I'm narrowing down my list, incorporating some of your suggestions. The frontrunner for me at the moment is the Leica 8x50 Ultravid HD. There seems to be a fairly good set of reviews on the 8x42s, but I haven't come across reviews for the 8x50s.

Anyone out there had any hands-on experience with the Leica 8x50 Ultravid HD?

I have found the 50mm Ultravids to be one of the most well balanced and light weight 50mm high end models around. Certainly the 8x50's are going to be one of the best low light binoculars available but you are making some trade-offs with that 50mm front lens. As light as it is for a 50mm binocular, it's still .5 lbs heavier than the 8x42. You are also going to lose over 1.5' of close focus. Unless you are using the binoculars in extreme low light situations, I would consider the 8x42 as an optimal choice given the lighter weight. Don't underestimate the benefit of reduced size and weight in a bino, especially if you will be spending hours at a time with it in the field.

Best Regards,
Ben

Ben Lizdas
Sales Manger
Eagle Optics
1-800-289-1132
www.eagleoptics.com

[kabsetz]

The shortcoming of the Leica 8x50 configuration is its very narrow field-of-view for an 8x binocular. Otherwise it is a very fine binocular. Personally I have liked the 10x50 Leicas better. The real field of view is the same as in the 8x50, and sharpness stays good further to the edge. These are very sharp and impressive binoculars.

However, if you are really looking for a "lifetime" binocular, why not take a look at the Swarovisions? If I were going to spend literally hundreds of hours looking through binoculars for work as well as pleasure, I would surely try them out before committing myself to anything else. In fact, if I weren't "addicted" to image stabilization, I would probably be saving up for a pair myself right now.

Kimmo

[Tero]

If you do not know, go 8x42.