[zorrofox]

Hello everyone. I only just joined the forums today and I must say binoculars are confusing the hell out of me. Here's what I'm looking for...

I need a pair of binoculars for bird watching and general use. I only have a maximum budget of £200. From what I've read so far on here I should be looking for around 8x magnification and the objective lens should be between 36 - 42mm. It would seem porro-prisms offer better value at the lower end of the price scale so I've been looking at the Bushnell Legend 8x42. I can't really get to a bricks and mortar shop to try before I buy so I would appreciate any recommendations of online retailers in the UK.

My previous experience with binoculars is patchy, to say the least. The only ones we have here are a pair of Praktika Sport 10x25 and they are awful! I do have a pair of 40 year old East German 8x30's in our apartment in Spain and they are immeasurably better. Still not great I bet, but definitely useable. I am a keen amateur photographer and all my photo gear is Nikon and ideally I'd love a pair of Nikons but opinions on their cheaper models vary so much I'd be reluctant to go that way at the moment. Being a photographer I appreciate the dilemma that different lenses can provide and I also appreciate that in the end you get what you pay for. If I get the bug who knows, I might find the funds for those Leicas, lol.

Would the Bushnell Legends fit the bill as a starter pair or are there other options I should be looking at? I don't wear glasses and I think my eyesight is pretty good.

Any and all help will be gratefully received.

Thanks for taking the time.

Gordon.

[stereotruckdriver]

Originally Posted by zorrofox

Hello everyone. I only just joined the forums today and I must say binoculars are confusing the hell out of me. Here's what I'm looking for...

I need a pair of binoculars for bird watching and general use. I only have a maximum budget of £200. From what I've read so far on here I should be looking for around 8x magnification and the objective lens should be between 36 - 42mm. It would seem porro-prisms offer better value at the lower end of the price scale so I've been looking at the Bushnell Legend 8x42. I can't really get to a bricks and mortar shop to try before I buy so I would appreciate any recommendations of online retailers in the UK.

My previous experience with binoculars is patchy, to say the least. The only ones we have here are a pair of Praktika Sport 10x25 and they are awful! I do have a pair of 40 year old East German 8x30's in our apartment in Spain and they are immeasurably better. Still not great I bet, but definitely useable. I am a keen amateur photographer and all my photo gear is Nikon and ideally I'd love a pair of Nikons but opinions on their cheaper models vary so much I'd be reluctant to go that way at the moment. Being a photographer I appreciate the dilemma that different lenses can provide and I also appreciate that in the end you get what you pay for. If I get the bug who knows, I might find the funds for those Leicas, lol.

Would the Bushnell Legends fit the bill as a starter pair or are there other options I should be looking at? I don't wear glasses and I think my eyesight is pretty good.

Any and all help will be gratefully received.

Thanks for taking the time.

Gordon.

Gordon, I'm here in the states so can't help with retailers. I think your on the right track! I might add a couple more to your list to consider. Besides the Legend, Pentax PCF WP II 8x40, Nikon Action Extreme 7x35 or the 8x version, I think Opticron makes a similiar porro as well. I think any one of these would serve you well. You have to spend alot more for the same optical quality! Granted you can get a Roof prism at that price, ergonomically better but, won't touch the Porro's mentioned optically. Welcome to BF, Bryce...

[Kevin Purcell]

Welcome to Birdforum.

I must say binoculars are confusing the hell out of me.

It's a common problem. Prepare to be even more confused as people make suggestions but it will eventually make more sense.

Which particular Legend's did you have in mind: the porros; the older "Legends" or the new Legend Ultra HD. All have been reviewed or commented on here before.

The Legend 8x42 porros are good, inexpensive, but heavy at over 30oz. Wide field of view and good eye releif. Rather good for a fixed location (or if you have a good neck and not too much money for everyday birding). They've been reviewed here by me and others.

Another possibility are 8x30ish. They may work for you. Ligher and good most of the time except twilight (and perhaps dull winters day in Scotland).

The older Legend 8x42 are in the "Nikon Monarch" class (a good lower mid-range bin) with a rather narrow 6.4° field (like the Monarch) but very good glare resistance. Not a bad view but starting to show it's age. If you can get one at a good price then it's not a bad start.

Nikon Extreme ATB porros are also excellent at the low end. The 7x35 and the 8x40 are both nicely made and not too heavy.

One thing to keep in mind is porros still offer more bang per pound/euro/buck than roofs but roof quality at the low end has come on leaps and bounds in even just the last couple of years. So an new (recently introduced) roof might be an option too.

But there are plenty of other options out there too for other makers. Opticron is well favored in the UK and have models that might math your needs.

And there are plenty of other good bins out there. What are your wants and needs? Waterproofing (for winter birding in Scotland?).

Try reading some of the forum to get your head around some of the common issues. There is a lot of expertise embedded in the forum discussions. But that can sometimes be a problem. There might be more info that you want but if you like it you can join the Dark Side and hang out in this subforum. The other birders may roll their eyes but when they need to buy a new bin they often end up here (and we still do a fine job IDing birds)

[Tero]

These are not water proof but do not weigh a ton either
http://www.microglobe.co.uk/catalog/...8x30-binocular

these you can take anywhere, but you will outgrow soon, and they become what we binoholics call glove compartment spares
http://www.microglobe.co.uk/catalog/...ron-adventurer

these are traditional reverse porros
http://www.microglobe.co.uk/catalog/...aiga-binocular

look also in
http://www.amazon.co.uk/
type in binoculars
do NOT get any 16x32s
go up to your 200 price and see what you can get
good luck!

Number 85 there at Amazon

Pentax 8x36 DCF HS Binoculars
Buy new: £219.99 £209.78 at Amazon
sellers: 3 new from £140.00

on those Amazon approved sellers check return policy, such as

In addition, Binoculars UK will refund the cost of goods purchased where the client is dissatisfied, provided that the goods and packaging are returned in their original condition, undamaged within 7 days of delivery. Carriage charges are not refundable.

[Martin Fagg]

Hi Gordon,
As you live in Scotland I will assume you will want something waterproof and also that you will be better off with a 42mm objective for dark winter days (I find I need them and I'm much further south than you).
You're right to be looking at porros. Most people will tell you that in the lower price bracket you will get a much better view for you money by buying porros. The downside with porros is that they are not truly waterproof and the focussers tend to stiffen up in the cold which may be a problem in Scotland.
S0.........................
I have just bought a pair of Opticron HR WP 8x42s. (The best price I could find was Kay Optical £180). These are fully waterproof porro prism bins. The traditional style of porro bins with the moving bridge for focusing are generally not thought of as truly waterproof. These have internal focussing like roof prisms so they're proper waterproof. And the focuser shouldn't stiffen up in the cold.

I have used them for one day only so far but I think that, optically and mechanically (made in Japan), they are superb. They feel very solidly built but are lightweight and comfortable to hold (for me at least). I don't think you will get a better quality of view for under £200. They are really bright and I think that the image they give is a little sharper than my Meopta 8x32s which cost three times the price.
But having said that there are some drawbacks. The most obvious being the narrow field of view. It's 6.4 degrees which I thought sounded horrendously narrow at first but I've been very pleasantly surprised that in use it's just not a problem.
The second drawback is the focuser. It is very slow, taking two full turns to go from one end to the other. But again, in practice, not that big a problem. I found that I really only used one turn of the wheel in normal use, say anything from 50 feet to a mile away. Still slow compared to my Meoptas and Opticron SRGAs, which are fast and very fast respectively, but I soon got used to it.

For their price they're amazing. I really think you should try a pair. Kay send them free post so you will only have to pay return postage if you don't like them. Also I believe they have a 30 day return policy (you better check that on their website, I'm not 100% about that). I'm sounding like an advert now so I better point out that I am in no way connected to them other than being one of their happy customers.

Best wishes
Martin

[ingle1970]

hello gordon

this seems a good buy for a little bit more money, you can always try a bit of haggling

https://secure.ffordes.com/index.htm

go into used equipment , binoculars , Nikon , Nikon 8x42 HG £249.

[CharleyBird]

I'm guessing you're not too far from this shop in Fife:

http://www.clunycountrystore.co.uk/i...ewCat&catId=48

Never been there, no connection; but have spoken to & corresponded with them a couple of times. Worth a look?

Regards

Andy

[Martin Fagg]

Originally Posted by ingle1970

hello gordon

this seems a good buy for a little bit more money, you can always try a bit of haggling

https://secure.ffordes.com/index.htm

go into used equipment , binoculars , Nikon , Nikon 8x42 HG £249.

That's £250 for a Nikon AG not HG. The HG is £699. Edit- just found the pics on the website. Look like HGs. The AG probably a typo then. They're HGs rather than HG L I think which means they are heavy. (900 plus grammes I think if memory serves.

Not sure what a Nikon AG is though. Any ideas?

[kristoffer]

Hello.
When I joined birdforum I felt just like you, I had no idea what I wanted for a bin. Fortunately someone told me what to buy instead of giving subtle advices, and someone told me to buy a pair of Vortex Vipers 8x42. They were great and served me more then well until bins did not confuse me any more and I finally knew what I wanted.

Edit. I don´t mean that you should buy a pair of Vipers, but they certainly was good at the time when I bought em. But if you find a pair of cheap second hand Nikon Monarch 8x42 I can recommend them.

Originally Posted by zorrofox

Hello everyone. I only just joined the forums today and I must say binoculars are confusing the hell out of me.

[Hobbes2]

Hi Gordon

You've had some great replies so far. Just thought I'd add my personal experience, which may or may not be of use.

My first (and current) pair of binoculars was also bought with a budget of £200. I wanted something I could try before I bought and this reduced the number of options available to me. Anyway, I ended up going for the Nikon Monarch 8x36. They are light (570g), rugged and offer a decent view. I don't regret the purchase and really enjoy using them. However, they do suffer from moderate chromatic abberation in certain lights, and especially when subjects are backlit. They are on sale in Warehouse Express for £192.71 (http://www.warehouseexpress.com/buy-...culars_1014240) and might be worth your consideration, depending on your priorities.

Having said all of that, you may well get a better glass in the porro-prism bins.

Good luck,
Hobbes

[Sancho]

Here´s a link to a pair of nice secondhand Opticron binos, in your price area, on sale in the Birdforum classifieds section, from BF member and ultra-gentleman Matt Green (no relation, never met the guy!):
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=164165

[ingle1970]

Originally Posted by Martin Fagg

That's £250 for a Nikon AG not HG. The HG is £699. Edit- just found the pics on the website. Look like HGs. The AG probably a typo then. They're HGs rather than HG L I think which means they are heavy. (900 plus grammes I think if memory serves.

Not sure what a Nikon AG is though. Any ideas?

Martin

pretty sure they are the real deal , just had a look at mine, which is still in the wrapper and that says AG on the focusser too .
i know they are heavy but for £250 they have got to be worth a look ...

[conbu19]

Gordon,just another option for you,used to buy astronomy glasses from them. Take care,Steve B.

http://www.bigbinoculars.com/usage.asp?sqlq=B

[zorrofox]

Rarely have I had so many tabs open at once.

[earleybird]

I quite like the look of the Hawke frontier range. These 8x42 bins are available as cheap as £120 on ebay. This is the older model but I'm saving my sheckles
http://www.birdwatch.co.uk/website/content/view/220/42/

heres a review of the newer ED version from over on OpticsTalk
http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=17109

[zorrofox]

Originally Posted by ingle1970

hello gordon

this seems a good buy for a little bit more money, you can always try a bit of haggling

https://secure.ffordes.com/index.htm

go into used equipment , binoculars , Nikon , Nikon 8x42 HG £249.

I was too slow. They're not there any more.

Gordon.

[zorrofox]

Okay, I'm thinking Nikons are out of the question, at least at my budget. However, I'm becoming increasingly drawn to the Opticron range. I've yet to read anything negative about any of their models. In particular Sanchos' link to Matt Greens second hand offer is very interesting. What do you guys think of the Opticron BGA SE 8x42 model? Does anyone know what the guarantee is like on Opticrons and know whether it might be transferrable from owner to owner?

Gordon.

[Sancho]

Originally Posted by zorrofox

Does anyone know what the guarantee is like on Opticrons and know whether it might be transferrable from owner to owner?

Gordon.

I think it´s ten years, and transferable, but I´ll have to check that. Meanwhile Opticron (based in Luton) are famed for excellent customer service, I´ve used them a few times and they´ve never charged me! Pete Gamby posts here sometimes, he´s BF´s Mr. Opticron.

[earleybird]

Originally Posted by zorrofox

Okay, I'm thinking Nikons are out of the question, at least at my budget. However, I'm becoming increasingly drawn to the Opticron range. I've yet to read anything negative about any of their models. In particular Sanchos' link to Matt Greens second hand offer is very interesting. What do you guys think of the Opticron BGA SE 8x42 model? Does anyone know what the guarantee is like on Opticrons and know whether it might be transferrable from owner to owner?

Gordon.

three owner reviews here
http://www.amazon.co.uk/product-revi...owViewpoints=1

[Sancho]

Originally Posted by earleybird

three owner reviews here
http://www.amazon.co.uk/product-revi...owViewpoints=1

These reviews are for the Opticron BGA TPC, which although very good binos at their price, are a considerable step down from Matt´s Opticron SE´s (which retail new at about 350 sterling). Check the Opticron site for comparison. Admittedly it´s a bit of a minefield, Opticron make a bewildering array of models.

[zorrofox]

I've had a look around the Opticron site and they do seem like good binoculars. I like the magnesium body aspect especially. However, they can be found for £340 brand new. I guess good binoculars don't depreciate all that much.

Gordon.

[jjg213]

Hi Ingle, I have searched through my large collection of Japanese and American/Canadian Nikon catalogues to try to determine what the "AG" on my 8x42's focussing knob means (all glass, haha!). There is no indication that they are anything other than HG's, based on weight, and other specs. There does not appear to have been an "AG" model. Perhaps someone can confirm this?
Other than the weight, they are one of my favourites and get a lot of use.
Thanks, John

[ingle1970]

Originally Posted by jjg213

Hi Ingle, I have searched through my large collection of Japanese and American/Canadian Nikon catalogues to try to determine what the "AG" on my 8x42's focussing knob means (all glass, haha!). There is no indication that they are anything other than HG's, based on weight, and other specs. There does not appear to have been an "AG" model. Perhaps someone can confirm this?
Other than the weight, they are one of my favourites and get a lot of use.
Thanks, John

hi John
yep, its a bit of a mystery isn't it, i'm sure someone on the forum will know .
It must have some significance or it wouldn't be there ...

[NDhunter]

Originally Posted by Martin Fagg

That's £250 for a Nikon AG not HG. The HG is £699. Edit- just found the pics on the website. Look like HGs. The AG probably a typo then. They're HGs rather than HG L I think which means they are heavy. (900 plus grammes I think if memory serves.

Not sure what a Nikon AG is though. Any ideas?

Would this be the Monarch series? For that price, it makes sense.
The HG's and HGL's would be the better optics.

[Dave H]

I appreciate your budget was £200 but if you could find an extra £29, this seems like a pretty good deal...

http://www.kayoptical.co.uk/product....plete,%20boxed

These are ideal entry level binoculars (arguably better than that) and they will last you years until the urge to spend daft amounts of money on Swarovskis finally hits you.