[HoosierGuy]

My first pair of good binos was Nikon Monarchs 8x42's. I love these binoculars because of the great field of view and great eye relief. They are easy on my eyes and eyeglasses.

My second nice pair is Zed-Ed's 10x43. I love the sharp image they produce but - they don't have the eye relieve of the Monarchs and the field of view is not as good. I do like the Zen-Ed's though and I'm happy to have them. I love the sharp image.

Now I want a new 8x bino with the sharpness of the Zen's. I also want great eye relief and great field of view.

Is there anything out there under $600? What I really want is something like my Monarchs except with ED glass.

What's out there around $600?

Thanks!

[HoosierGuy]

Or, how cheap can I get a pair of 8.5x42 Swarovski's? Do new pairs ever get below $1,000?

[oleaf]

Hi HoosierGuy,

If you're looking to spend under $1000 the Meopta MeoStar 8x42 is probably the finest 8x42 under a grand. Really, they deserve a look. As good as Swaro IMHO. The 8x32's are just as nice too and less expensive.

They have the widest, flattest and sharpest to the edge view. They don't have ED and don't need it to compete.

Cheers

[Tero]

The one that will be close to Monarch in feel, a little heavier, is Pentax ED
http://www.eagleoptics.com/binocular...8x43-binocular
I think it runs about 900. You could try a trade someplace, some stores take trade.

Google for prices, I found a listing for 700.

I have the similar 10x43 SP and it has been a trusty bino. I had the eye cup repired, but if you have a bino for several years, the eye cups will get some wear. Once it was repaired...I paid shipping only, I expect it to last many years.

Look for a trusty brand and good warranty in all your choices. Vortex is also one to look at. It has so called XD glass
http://www.eagleoptics.com/binocular...8x42-binocular
sells for a little over 500.

[Kammerdiner]

Why not get the Zen 8x43 ED2 for $400? It's got everything you want, including the eye relief. I have a pair, and they really are something.

I'd buy the Zen in a 10x, too, but like you I need the eye relief. Maybe Zen will redesign the eyecup to squeeze out another mm or two. It should be easy to do.

Mark

[Tero]

Hoosier Guy seems to like the Monarchs, and has had the ZR in hand, with something not quite ideal for him with it. So I found some conventional models, no open bridge, and a little faster focus.

[Kammerdiner]

Well, the Zen 10x has a wider FOV than the Monarch 8x (340' v. 330'), so saying the Monarch 8x has a great FOV is a bit behind the times. It has eye relief though. Pentax full-size SP/ED the same--good ER, narrow FOV. Newer designs abound. The Pentax 8x32 ED is 394' or thereabouts and that is good FOV and 17mm relief is adequate. I got the 8x32 ED for $560 a year or two ago. Bargains pop up from time to time. I saw a brand new one go for $440 on Ebay last week!

I thought eye relief was HoosierGuy's real issue and the 8x Zen is better than the 10x (16.8 v. 15.2 if memory serves). ER is right on the money for me, though I wouldn't want any less thanks to the deep eye cups. That's why I won't go for the 10x. The 8x is worth a try. I guarantee it's better than the Monarch III.

I'm definitely with HoosierGuy when it comes to ED glass, though. I'll never again buy anything without it, except maybe a porro. Of course as prices drop, some bad ED bins will appear, but so far I haven't heard of any.

[Kevin Purcell]

Originally Posted by Kammerdiner

Well, the Zen 10x has a wider FOV than the Monarch 8x (340' v. 330'), so saying the Monarch 8x has a great FOV is a bit behind the times.

The Monarch 10x42 FOV is 314' not 330' so rather narrower at 6° than the ZR at 6.5°. That extra half a degree makes more of a difference than one might think (though 6° in a 10x is not that bad).

The ER is better on the 8x than the 10x. With glasses I just couldn't get the outer edge of field in the 10x so I prefer the 8x (with the same AFOV but wider field).

And I'm the same with ED glass (and an EP that controls lateral CA ... they don't always go together). I've found it a significant step in all the bins I've used from Chinese ED to the Zeiss.

[HoosierGuy]

What I really wish is to take the glass in my Zen 10's and put them in the my Monarch 8's.

I have to put the oculars too close on the Zens to fit my eyes. I've read those Monarchs have been a top seller for many years and I can see why - the 8x is light, great eye relief, decent image, close focus, water proof.

If I spend $900 I might as well jump up to $1,300 for a pair of Swarovski's.

Except for the sharpness of the image, the Monarch is more enjoyable to use. However, for a 10x bino my Zen's do the job nicely. I don't want to give them up. I just want to improve my 8x.

I've used the 10x Zen's almost exclusively since I got them last year. When I pick up my Monarchs, the Monarchs are so light compared to the Zen's they feel like a toy. lol.

I notice great ED image in the Zen's. I want an 8x, 8.5x, or 7x with that image. That's the goal.

[J. Moore]

Hi HG,

The Vortex Vipers 8x42 have lots of eye relief (20mm), are lightweight (23oz), have ED glass, a larger FOV than the monarchs, and I have to work hard to see much difference optically between them and my swaro ELs, though they only run around $500. You might try out a pair.

Best,
Jim

[Tero]

Well, you may notice the alphas being a bit heavy. The Pentax are like an improved Monarch. I forget if the focus is counterclockwise or clockwise on those. 700 is less than 1300. Almost 50%.

If I had money to throw aroun I would get this
http://www.eagleoptics.com/binocular...p-shot-adapter
but note eye relief is only 15mm.

Even the similar Razor is 18mm
http://www.eagleoptics.com/binocular...8x42-binocular
there is no 32mm razor

So you just have to go thru all the brands there and look for 18-22mm eye relief.

There is also the Bushnell Ultra
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=161266

mine is coming tomorrow. Good prices if you Google.

[HoosierGuy]

I'm not kidding nobody - I want lots of binoculars. lol.

[Tero]

I think maybe the safest bet in the 8x ED is the ZR/ProMaster/Atlas models. I do not have any of those in 8x, but the only real problem there is slow focus. But you will not miss many birds, it is just 8x. So set the focus to about 100ft and don't worry so much.

[J. Moore]

Originally Posted by Tero

but the only real problem there is slow focus.

Some of the models you mention have limited eye relief and some would consider them heavy. Also, they are not made be companies with a long run in the business. So, I wouldn't say they are necessarily the "safest bet" given the desiderata expressed by Hoosier Guy. Though I won't deny they are some very attractive options.

Best,
Jim

[jgraider]

Get yourself a Leupold Gold Ring HD in either 8x42 ($679, $579 after rebate), or the 10x42 ($599 after rebate). Fantastic glass, well made, and a steal at those prices.

[BobinKy]

I am glad to see some comments on the Pentax DCF ED models. I have the 10x50 and I think it is great. I have also tried the 8x32 model. The 8x43 would probably be wonderful, as well.

...Bob
Kentucky, USA

[Tero]

Originally Posted by J. Moore

Some of the models you mention have limited eye relief and some would consider them heavy. Also, they are not made be companies with a long run in the business. So, I wouldn't say they are necessarily the "safest bet" given the desiderata expressed by Hoosier Guy. Though I won't deny they are some very attractive options.

Best,
Jim

Agreed, but there was a 600 limit. I had no problem picking two Bushnells, as I know Bushnell will be around. But the eye relief thing...

[HoosierGuy]

I may go after the Vortex Viper 8x42 Binocular because of the large eye relief.

When I hold my Monarch 8x42 away from me and look at the exit pupil I see large exit pupils. I think that's what I want - those large exit pupils/eye relief.
My Zen's 10's have a much smaller exit pupil. I guess that's because they are 10's and not 8's. The goal tho is to find a nice 8x bino with ED glass and large eye relief.

The Viper 8x42 does give an image better than the 8x Monarch?

[Steve C]

Originally Posted by HoosierGuy

The Viper 8x42 does give an image better than the 8x Monarch?

I think that is a pretty fair assessment. I sure like the Viper better than the Monarch. The dof, color rendition and contrast are better in the Viper.The fov is not much wider, but the Viper seems to have a bigger field by more than the 17' difference would indicate it should.

Color fringing in the Viper is less well controlled than in other ED binoculars. You might not notice it unless you are susceptible to it, but CA can be seen.

[HoosierGuy]

I also want a field of view larger than 330. I was reading Holger Merlitz page on
Collected Wisdom on buying binoculars and he says wide angle is the way to go. I agree. I love looking at wide field of views with my 8x Monarchs, something I can't really do with my 10x Zens.

Merlitz says 60 degrees is considered wide angled. How many feet is that?

[Tero]

You need the actual degrees, not the apparent view. So 6 degrees gives about 310ft. 7 degrees 360ft or so.

[DHB]

Unless he doesn't like the open bridge (I haven't seen or missed what exactly he doesn't like besides ER and FOV with the Zen). I would continue to recommend a 8x42 Chinese ED like the Zen-Ray or ProMaster. I have the ProMaster 8x and can't say enough good things. I had the 8.5x42 and 8x32 Swaro EL and sold both after long comparisons with the ProMaster. In 10x I still prefer my Leica 10x42 Trinovids because they just "fit" and the view is sharp and I stole them years ago........

Dave

[Kevin Purcell]

Originally Posted by HoosierGuy

I love looking at wide field of views with my 8x Monarchs, something I can't really do with my 10x Zens.

Which is odd considering the 8x Monarch has a FOV of 6.2 degrees and the ZR 10x43 ED has a FOV of 6.5 degrees. Even considering some loss of FOV due to lower ER they FOVs are comparable if not slightly larger in the 10x.

The apparently FOV (AFOV) of the 10x will certainly be larger by 10% or more.

The Monarch 8x is considered a rather narrow FOV (small AFOV) today. A wide FOV at 8x would be 8 degree or so (420 feet -- certainly > 400 feet would be considered wide enough).

The 10x Monarch has about the same FOV as the 8x Monarch but due to the magnification the AFOV is wider.

So which are you after: wide FOV or wide AFOV?

[DHB]

Probably apov. I know prior to these Chinese ED open bridge bino's that nobody (IMO) had that picture window view besides Leica, Swaro and to lesser degree Zeiss. Especially in the 8x32 (my fav size). Almost all Japanese 8x32's are listed at ~393ft which is similar to the Leica 8x32 and looking thru them it looks like the Leica is 20% wider. Not measurement just the view. Like your looking right thru the objective.

[HoosierGuy]

Hmm, now I have to find the difference between AFOV and FOV.

What I know is I like my 10x Zens and ED glass. I want to upgrade my Monarchs with ED glass. Plus, I love the really wide field of views. Looking out over a lake with a wide field of view is nice.

I don't know the difference between AFOV and FOV.