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Old Thursday 25th March 2010, 16:46   #1
Ray.Scott
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Scaup or Tufted Duck

Could enyone put an I.D. to the attached distant and only shot I got from Hetton Lyons Lake.
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Old Thursday 25th March 2010, 17:26   #2
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I'd say a tuftie based on the large amount of black at the tip of the bill
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Old Thursday 25th March 2010, 17:31   #3
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I agree with Nick.

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Old Thursday 25th March 2010, 17:33   #4
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I saw the duck this morning and it showed very well with Tufted Ducks It doesn't show any signs of a small tuft at the back of it head.I thought it could be a hybrid Scaup /Tufted Duck.There's a drawing of female hybrid Scaup/Tufted in the Colins field guide which looks very like the duck in the pic.
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Old Thursday 25th March 2010, 19:26   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rokermartin View Post
I saw the duck this morning and it showed very well with Tufted Ducks It doesn't show any signs of a small tuft at the back of it head.I thought it could be a hybrid Scaup /Tufted Duck.There's a drawing of female hybrid Scaup/Tufted in the Colins field guide which looks very like the duck in the pic.
I would agree based on this one image. Looks too 'mean' for a Tuftie and agree the head is the wrong shape for a pure bird of this species.
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Old Thursday 25th March 2010, 20:09   #6
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Would also tend to a agree that it looks "scaup-like". As stated it can't be a pure Scaup because it doesn't have the black nail restricted to the tip. Aythya hybrids can be a worrying nightmare. My feelings are that it is a hybrid, also from what you've described. Big white blaze, rounded head, Tufted type bill. Possibly a Scaup X Tufted.
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Old Thursday 25th March 2010, 22:32   #7
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I've looked at the pic and read the description Martin mentioned in the Collins guide and it all seems to fit this bird perfectly.
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Old Thursday 25th March 2010, 22:58   #8
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Whilst I can't rule out the possibility of this being a hybrid, I suspect that it isn't. The white around the bill is within range for Tufted Duck. Tufted Ducks can be good at hiding their tufts, especially when feeding - head structure looks fine for Tufted Duck to me. Everything else seems spot on for Tufty and there aren't any Scaup features like grey on the flanks/mantle. Given the relative scarcity of Scaup hybrids and the lack of any convincing pointers that way I'd be comfortable calling it a Tufted Duck.
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Old Thursday 25th March 2010, 23:11   #9
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Tufted Duck for me

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Old Thursday 25th March 2010, 23:17   #10
rokermartin
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Originally Posted by Dave Appleton View Post
Whilst I can't rule out the possibility of this being a hybrid, I suspect that it isn't. The white around the bill is within range for Tufted Duck. Tufted Ducks can be good at hiding their tufts, especially when feeding - head structure looks fine for Tufted Duck to me. Everything else seems spot on for Tufty and there aren't any Scaup features like grey on the flanks/mantle. Given the relative scarcity of Scaup hybrids and the lack of any convincing pointers that way I'd be comfortable calling it a Tufted Duck.
I know what you mean about Tufted ducks can hide there tufts.But this bird was showing very well when i saw today.It was swimming about with other tufted and it didn't show any sign of a tuft.Also i saw it feeding.To me the head shape look more scaup like.
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Old Thursday 25th March 2010, 23:29   #11
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We have been having a similar problem with a Scaup/Tufty duck in Shropshire, this was taken today. I think the jury both on here and local to the bird are leaning slightly more towards a scaup.

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=164501

Although yours Scuzz, has got that tufty evil eye!!

Roger
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Old Thursday 25th March 2010, 23:32   #12
rokermartin
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We have been having a similar problem with a Scaup/Tufty duck in Shropshire, this was taken today. I think the jury both on here and local to the bird are leaning slightly more towards a scaup.

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=164501

Although yours Scuzz, has got that tufty evil eye!!

Roger
To me your duck looks like Scaup it has a massive bill
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Old Thursday 25th March 2010, 23:53   #13
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Would also tend to a agree that it looks "scaup-like". As stated it can't be a pure Scaup because it doesn't have the black nail restricted to the tip. Aythya hybrids can be a worrying nightmare. My feelings are that it is a hybrid, also from what you've described. Big white blaze, rounded head, Tufted type bill. Possibly a Scaup X Tufted.
Reflecting further. That "nail" has been niggling at me. It is too extensive for a S X TD hybrid now IMO. Also the body plumage seems too uniform. No light areas entering into the scheme, especially on the bit of the flanks you can see. Which would probably be more grey-infused. But you can't see all the flanks.
I think the amount of black on the bill tip sways it more in favour of Tufted after reflection. But I didn't see the bird, and this is only one photo. More would've helped. The fact that there are differences of opinion bear this out!
Also it seems to be sucking on a raspberry sherbert, which confuses things even more!
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Old Friday 26th March 2010, 10:44   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wimpy View Post
We have been having a similar problem with a Scaup/Tufty duck in Shropshire, this was taken today. I think the jury both on here and local to the bird are leaning slightly more towards a scaup.

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=164501

Although yours Scuzz, has got that tufty evil eye!!

Roger
This bird (the long-staying Venus Pool bird presumably) is a Scaup.

The bird at the top of this thread just looks like a fairly bog-standard female Tufted to me.

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Old Friday 26th March 2010, 11:33   #15
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Everything about that Shropshire bird says scaup to me.
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Old Friday 26th March 2010, 11:33   #16
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Wimpy's bird is a scaup. Bill pattern, head shape and flank markings all point to it.
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Old Friday 26th March 2010, 18:20   #17
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I can't see anything in the original bird that is outside the range of variation in Tufted Duck.

Here's a similar bird photographed in Bucks recently (that was originally reported as a Scaup...) - http://www.goingbirding.co.uk/bucks/...p?photo_id=510
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Old Saturday 27th March 2010, 00:44   #18
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I've never seen a Tufted Duck, here are some female Scaups...


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Old Saturday 27th March 2010, 06:27   #19
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Nice photo of Scaups. I would say Tuftie for the bird in question. The bill doesn't look right for Scaup and it doesn't look "mean" enough.

But they are hard to tell.

I'm still struggling with my own tuftie/scaup photos.

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Old Saturday 24th September 2011, 22:59   #20
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Interestingly, we assume that anything weird must be a tufted duck because it is the commonest species in the UK but there is a problem - hybridisation! I know this has been discussed on this thread already but the concept of Aythya hybridisation is not new. The difficulty here is that Aythya hybrids seem to be fertile - in contrast to Linnaeum ideas of classification, which is (rightly, to a point) still prevalent amongst ideas about speciation.

If these birds can breed with another species once, what is to say that they cannot do it again and again?

I am not sure what makes one bird a tufted duck within 'a range' yet discounts a scaup or pochard outside a range. If tufted ducks are so variable then why are other Aythya species not variable within a range? The bird guides tell us that individuals 'should' show certain characteristics but why should they? The bird guides deal with 50:50 situations not 75:25 or worse.
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