[RockyRacoon]

Is Mealy Redpoll the same species as a Lesser Redpoll, the same species different name I mean. Because a book I have has the Common Redpoll, a winter visitor and the Lesser Redpoll, the largely resident seperate species. (Lesser Redpoll is mainly a brown to the Common Redpoll a white) And also out of interest what are the links of Arctic Redpoll in this.

[Jane Turner]

Mealy Redpoll = Common Redpoll and is a different species (currently) from Lesser Redpoll...

Though once again the status of Redpoll taxa is under review again!

[very boring banned member]

According to me, cabaret = Acanthis flammea's subspecies. According to the nationalists, they're different species.

[Bluetail]

Originally Posted by Jane Turner

Mealy Redpoll = Common Redpoll and is a different species (currently) from Lesser Redpoll...

Though once again the status of Redpoll taxa is under review again!

Is that by the BOU, Jane? Sure I've asked this before, but I've got a memory like a...(What are those things you use for grading flour?)

[robinm]

Originally Posted by Bluetail

Is that by the BOU, Jane? Sure I've asked this before, but I've got a memory like a...(What are those things you use for grading flour?)

Yes. (I know I'm not Jane!)

[Jane Turner]

Thanks.. I'd forgotten :)

[Fulmar]

Here are the species as listed in three lists:

According the Clement's list:
Common Redpoll Carduelis flammea
Lesser Redpoll Carduelis cabaret
Hoary Redpoll Carduelis hornemanni

According the Sibley-Monroe list:
Common Redpoll Carduelis flammea
Hoary Redpoll Carduelis hornemanni
(no Lesser Redpoll which is thus considered a subspecies of Common Redpoll)

According the BOU list:
Mealy Redpoll Carduelis flammea
Lesser Redpoll Carduelis cabaret
Arctic Redpoll Carduelis hornemanni

So, make your pick!

Peter

[Fulmar]

I have to post a revision about my previous message: there is a later update to the Clements list which I had missed.

In the December 31, 2000 update, the Common Redpoll / Carduelis flammea was split into Common Redpoll / Carduelis flammea and Lesser Redpoll / Carduelis cabaret. Carduelis flammea included the subspecies C.f. flammea, rostrata and islandica. This was the situation as I described in my previous post.

However, in the December 15, 2003 update, the Common Redpoll and Lesser Redpoll were lumped again, so the latest situation on the Clements list is:
Common Redpoll Carduelis flammea (including subspecies flammea, cabaret, rostrata and islandica)
Hoary Redpoll Carduelis hornemanni

So the Clements and the Sibley-Monroe lists are in agreement here.

Peter

[very boring banned member]

Cont'd next month?...

[Michael Frankis]

Hi Jake and Peter,

Problem with the latest edition of Clements is that it selectively cited just one a single research paper into just Mealy (Common) and Lesser, without considering all redpolls in the wider context.

Until all redpolls are studied comparitively, it is very unscientific to say two analysed are conspecific, while others not analysed are not conspecific.

Michael

[jpoyner]

Hi,

While we are on the subject does anybody have any info of breeding occurrences (in Scotland) of flammea.

JP

[Edward woodwood]

no John, but i'll be interested to see what transpires......

[Michael Frankis]

Hi JP,

Originally Posted by jpoyner

While we are on the subject does anybody have any info of breeding occurrences (in Scotland) of flammea.

JP

Pair(s) probably of flammea bred on Orkney in 1975 & 1976. That's the only cases I've read of, but there may be others since.

Michael

[RockyRacoon]

So it all needs to be researched again? (Same with the Crossbills?)

[Michael Frankis]

Hi Jake,

Originally Posted by Jake Apps

So it all needs to be researched again? (Same with the Crossbills?)

Yep - and I'm sure there'll still be plenty of unanswered questions about both of them for you to do your biology PhD on

Michael