[Hamhed]

Okay, all you Central American bird experts. Time for your favorite game of making sense of bad photographs of exotic birdlife. This thread is in preparation for posting a report on a trip my wife and I made in late May to (you guessed it) Panama.

The picture of the Hummingbird was taken at the relatively new Panama Rainforest Discovery Center, adjacent to famous Pipeline Road. Juvenile White-necked Jacobin?

The Dove was seen outside the gates of the Ammo Dump Pond entrance. We were seeing a good many White-tipped Doves but I was thinking Gray-chested for this particular bird.

Thanks in advance, everyone!

Steve

[Motmot]

Agree the hummer looks a Jacobin but not sure about the age, female Jacobins can be notoriously variable.
I'd say the dove is another White-tipped. The longish looking tail and the colours on upperparts and underparts (brownish and fairly pale) make me believe it's not a Gray-chested Dove.
Eduardo

[Birdingcraft]

Glad to see that you guys did the trip to Panama! Looking forward to reading your trip report if you have one in the works.

Yes, that hummingbird has to be a White-necked Jacobin with that extensive white on the belly and undertail. Since it lacks spotting on the underparts and appears to be developing a dark throat, I think it's a young male.

As for the dove, I suspect it's a White-tipped because I don't see any hint of brownish on the back of the head but I can't say for sure.

[Hamhed]

Happy to see you two lurking when I need you! I'll take those two qualified answers and move on to the next set of ugly pictures.

Both species were taken on Plantation Trail, a dark place for photography with a point and shoot camera. I tried the flash for the flycatcher; that's not the true eye color! I have seen a similar shine in an American Dipper's eye but I think we can assume this is something different. The second picture of the Flycatcher is probably not much help. I think I can see an eye-ring...

The Woodcreepers taunt us for identification on a regular basis. We have this one narrowed down to one of the ones on Plate 19 of Ridgley's guide.

Yes, Patrick, we found plane tickets at a reasonable cost and decided to try the tropics in the rainy season. It wasn't so bad but the rains were not as regular as expected. I think we had two days without any rain. Most days only had a couple of hours of rain. Trip report is in the works.

Steve

[Motmot]

First one is an Olivaceous Flatbill, second looks to be Cocoa Woodcreeper (Buff-throated in Ridgely's but it was split some years ago).
Best,
Eduardo

[Hamhed]

Thanks, Motmot. I hadn't considered Flatbill as a possibility. The Yellow-Margined Flycatcher and Forest Elaenia have very similar markings, especially the eye ring. I think the Forest Elaenia is uncommon and and the other is found in more open areas. The bill does look bicolored.

[Birdingcraft]

I totally agree with the Motmot.
Yes, Yellow-margined and Forest Eleania do have similar markings. The Yellow-margined has more of a grayish head with a broken eye ring and the Elaenia is a more slender bird with a smaller bill, line through the eye, and two distinct wing bars.

[Hamhed]

I can see I'll need a few more years in the Tropics to get as efficient as you two. Some better pictures follow; once in a while, I get my level of photography up to mediocre. These are the last four unknowns:

We tentatively identified the rufous bird as a female White-lined Tanager, though we first concentrated on Phia's and Mourners. That was a travel day; I think we found it in El Valle.

The Hummingbird pic was taken on our second trip to the Discovery Center. Garden Emerald, possibly? I don't have any second guesses.

I'm embarrassed to admit the trouble we had separating Social and Rusty-margined Flycatchers and Lesser Kiskadees. I'd like to call this a Lesser Kiskadee.

Finally, because the previous three are probably too easy for you guys, I watched this Flycatcher building this nest over a street in Gamboa. It sang a two syllable call like "Whee-er", dropping in pitch on the second note. I'll haunt Xeno-Canto for the call because little in Ridgely's book seems to match, except for the Yellow-crowned Tyrannulet or Paltry Tyrannulet. I do have a video of the bird coming and going. It does not show any crown color except gray, but I can make out some white above the eye. Paltry Tyrannulet is my best guess but the extensive yellow underneath is not helping that i.d.

Steve

[Fritz73]

#1 Looks more like Hepatic Tanager
#2 Agree
#3 Great Kiskadee
#4 Paltry Tyrannulet for me.

[Motmot]

#1 agree with Fritz it looks best for Hepatic but...I can't see a toothed upper mandible (even fully zoomed) and the lores don't look dusky, but more or less uniform with the rest of the face. Tricky. Anyway, I'd say it's an Hepatic and not a late Summer T.
I guess the bird is too red for a female White-lined and also the bill shape/colour doesn't look right for it imo.
# 2&3 also agree with Fritz
# 4 tough, maybe a Yellow-olive Flycatcher but the voice you describe doesn't sound good for it.
Yellow-crowned Tyrannulet builds a cup nest (Stiles&Skutch), and Paltry T. is not yellow underneath as you noticed.

[RobertaG]

I would have gone for Summer tanager for #1, it looks rosier and lighter coloured than I thought hepatic would be and it's bill looks paler. I'm not disagreeing but am very interested in what leads you to hepatic over summer given that you say

"it looks best for Hepatic but...I can't see a toothed upper mandible (even fully zoomed) and the lores don't look dusky, but more or less uniform with the rest of the face"

also can you explain what are the features that make #3 so definitely a greater kiskadee - I too have difficulty with this group and would love to learn!

[Hamhed]

I found a picture of a Hepatic Tanager here:
http://www.avianweb.com/hepatictanagers.html
I did so after looking at Ridgley's book and also Garrigues and Dean's Costa Rica guide. The head colors and bill shape don't fit Hepatic Tanager very well, in my mind. I actually held the book pages up to the picture and the color of the female White-lined Tanager on Plate 36 comes very close. This picture was taken in morning sun, possibly brightening the rusty tone to more of a reddish color. For Summer Tanager, I would expect that they would have already migrated north by late May, though we did see another migrant, an Eastern Kingbird, in Gamboa.
As far as the Flycatcher, I now notice that the yellow breast color does not quite reach the bottom of the neck, as shown in Ridgely's plates (and also the Costa Rica guide). The bird in the photo seems smaller to me with less red than the Great Kiskadee. Like bill size, those qualifications are all relative and difficult for us to pin down. Another trip to Panama seems necessary!
As to the Paltry Tyrannulet, the call on Xeno-canto does not match. If there is a way to post a video here, I'll try that.
Thanks for all the discussion. If I can't be there, I like to talk about being there.

Steve

[Motmot]

Hi Roberta,
Well, I don't see the bill pale but darkish grey! Also maybe a bit short for Summer I'd say, but I'm not fully convinced on this bird yet...

The kiskadee looking bird has quite a stout bill, not the thinner and more pointed one an average Lesser Kiskadee shows. Much easier birds to id when watched than on single images.

[Motmot]

Steve,
The Hepatic you posted is a NA one (Northern Hepatic Tanager) and they do look a bit different from CA ones (Highland Hepatic Tanager). Here are a couple panamanian ones to compare with:

http://www.birdsisaw.com/Photo.aspx?q=18252

http://www.charliesbirdblog.com/~cha...03/hepatic.jpg

Also some reddish female White-lined Tanagers (most aren't this reddish looking birds):

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...s-20090405.jpg

http://www.flickr.com/photos/12014797@N05/3230849655

http://ibc.lynxeds.com/photo/white-l...ierra-san-luis

Female W-l tanagers have a thinner/longer looking bill with a paler half lower mandible.

[Birdingcraft]

Nice mystery photos Steve!

That first one is trickier than I expected. My first impression was female White-lined Tanager but like Motmot mentions, the bill doesn't look quite right- too think and unicolored. From your description of it being a rufous colored bird, it still sounds like a female White-lined Tanager but I'm not 100% certain.
I'm even less convinced that it is an Hepatic Tanager though because I don't see any dark on the lores, or as a line through the eye, nor even a hint of a "tooth" in the upper mandible.
As for Summer Tanager, it looks too rufous and the bill too dark to be that species (as you said, it would also be pretty rare at this time of year in Panama).
So, in conclusion, I think it's probably a female White-lined but I can't ID this bird for sure.

As for the other IDs, excellent photo of Garden Emerald! A lot of birders miss this species.

Yes, Great Kiskadee. As Motmot says, Lesser Kiskadee has a noticeably thinner bill- this species looks more dainty overall than Great Kiskadee and is almost always found near water. Rusty-margined Flycatcher is noticeably smaller than Great Kiskadee and looks very similar to a Social Flycatcher but has some rusty in the wing and sounds more like Dusky-capped Flycatcher with its mournful whistled vocalizations.

I think that the flycatcher in the nest is Paltry Tyrannulet. Paltrys have a nest like the one pictured (globular with side entrance) and one of their vocalizations resembles your description.

[Hamhed]

Alright, I've conferred with Walt Whitman and he says let the Tanager i.d. go. The Kiskadee and Emerald are done deals and now I've uploaded my first video to YouTube of the "Possible Paltry Tyrannulet". It only calls once in that quick take. If you all still think it's the Tyrannulet, then we'll move on to the next mystery bird (yes, I found another blurry photo!).

Steve

[Motmot]

Good to see the video . With two clear wing bars and the voice recorded I'd say that's a Southern Beardless Tyrannulet.

[George Edwards]

Nice to see some more IDs from that area, Steve. No point in my trying out my identification skills here as I have nothing useful to add, but having just been to that area, if you wanted to see Lesser Kiskadee, there were a couple (identified by our guide) above the small stream/water on the left by the locked gates at Ammo Dump - so maybe check your photos if you spent time looking into that area. They were also perching on the barbed wire by the guards' hut, next to that spot.

[Hamhed]

Thanks, Motmot. Ridgely's description of the paltry Tyrannulet and recordings I listened to all ended in a "yip" note so the Paltry voice didn't match up well. I have another poor video of the nest but with much better sound recording if necessary. Except for one occasion, it seemed to rain every chance I had to video the nest. That one time a Social Flycatcher briefly entered the nest, causing more confusion! From this discussion, I'll use more video recordings in the future for i.d. purposes. It seems capturing the sound is as important or more so than having a picture.

George, when were you at the ponds? We saw one group from the Canopy Tower at the Ammo Dump ponds and several other groups pass us as we walked the head of the Pipeline Road area. We did visit the guard gates at the Ponds several times, the hanging nests of the Yellow-rumped Caciques and a nesting Rufescent Tiger-Heron were maybe the highlights. I do remember seeing birds beyond the fence but we never studied them closely. Since I am "flycatcher impaired", it may have not mattered.

[RobertaG]

Originally Posted by Motmot

Hi Roberta,
Well, I don't see the bill pale but darkish grey! Also maybe a bit short for Summer I'd say, but I'm not fully convinced on this bird yet...

The kiskadee looking bird has quite a stout bill, not the thinner and more pointed one an average Lesser Kiskadee shows. Much easier birds to id when watched than on single images.

Thanks Motmot (and Patrick) - and sorry to muscle in on your thread Steve. I hadn't taken time of year into account with the tanager (!) and looking back at my own shots of summer tanagers can see the what a proper pale bill looks like - and I'll obviously have to go back to make sure I can separate the kiskadees in the field!

Can I hi-jack this for a little longer and ask - I have this one down as a rusty-margined (taken at the Gamboa ammo ponds) - am I right?

Roberta

[George Edwards]

Originally Posted by Hamhed

When were you at the ponds?

End April - yup that spot to the left of the cacique nests, where the rufescent tiger herons were, was where we saw the lesser k's. They were actually on the bough across the water, mostly. Visually there was no way I could have id'ed them then and there, especially with rusty ms and great ks around. Though I do know the great k call now, which helps eliminate one.

[Hamhed]

Roberta - Highjack away - the dialog is good stuff, whoever keeps it going. I hope you're not asking ME about the Kiskadee!

As promised, I did find another dark, indistinct picture. This Gamboa bird was not keen on us getting close and flew before I could get any better shot. We looked for a red eye with our binoculars but never saw one. With the hint of blue in the wing I'm guessing Shiny Cowbird.

Thanks everyone for all the input -

Steve

[Motmot]

Originally Posted by RobertaG

Can I hi-jack this for a little longer and ask - I have this one down as a rusty-margined (taken at the Gamboa ammo ponds) - am I right?

Roberta

Looks possible to me. No wing bars and upperparts colour not olive looking, but difficult to be 100% sure with this image, worn Socials can look pretty similar.

[Motmot]

Originally Posted by Hamhed

Roberta - Highjack away - the dialog is good stuff, whoever keeps it going. I hope you're not asking ME about the Kiskadee!

As promised, I did find another dark, indistinct picture. This Gamboa bird was not keen on us getting close and flew before I could get any better shot. We looked for a red eye with our binoculars but never saw one. With the hint of blue in the wing I'm guessing Shiny Cowbird.

Thanks everyone for all the input -

Steve

Another tough one! If pressed I'd say it's a Bronzed Cowbird, the sheen restricted to the wings is a common feature in Bronzed, Shiny is more uniformly coloured. Jizz-wise it also looks better for Bronzed to me, that neck area looks thick, without a well separated head from back, but just 1 image can get us fooled...

[Hamhed]

You have me convinced on the cowbird, Motmot. I found a few internet pictures and several showed blue on the wing. The neck thickness as shown in my book matches as well.
On to writing the trip report and looking at the clear, crisp pictures on George's thread -

Steve