[Jacamar]

Can anyone tell me what this plant is? Locally it is called Black Sage. Birds, especially tanagers, like to eat the red berries. Thanks!!

[Michael Frankis]

Hi Chris,

Sorry, don't know what it is, but it definitely isn't a sage (Salvia), nor even in the sage family (Lamiaceae)

Michael

[steve_nova]

Well, the fruits in the last picture remind me of a Gaultheria of some sort with those swollen red calyxes?

The only other genus that comes to mind is possibly one of the shrubby members of the genus Phytolacca.

I'll do a search to investigate. Incidently, regarding the first plant, is the soil acidic (ph lower than 7 ?).

[Joern Lehmhus]

It reminds me of the family Phytolaccaceae on the one hand; but on the other hand also of the family Verbenaceae...I´l send the pics to a friend working in a botanical garden-perhaps there somebody has an answer.

[Jacamar]

Steve, I don't know how to tell what the soil is like. I am not really into plants that much, I was just wondering what this is.
I also want to clarify that all the pictures are of the same plant. Thanks!

[steve_nova]

A closeup of a single flower within the spike is crutial for absolute family ident. A head on and profile shot to see if the ovary is inferior or superior would be a great help.

Intruiged at the final ident when it hopefully comes.

It's hard to say if all the images are of the same plant, the last two certainly seem to be. I presume you have taken many images of various plants and later have found it difficult to group them?

The flower spike is interesting in the way it seems to develop with ranked flower buds reducing from fully formed buds at the apex to increasingly undeveloped down the scape. The leaves also look like a Hoheria (Malvaceae) but flowers and fruits don't!

So, up to now we have Verbenaceae (not sure but don't all this family have opposite leaves?), Phytolaccaceae and Ericaceae.
Another genus related to Gaultheria might also be a potential, Vaccinium. Do I detect an inferior ovary in the flower buds and fruits?

[steve_nova]

I'm going to stick my neck out and say Ericaceae, possibly either Vaccinium or Gaultheria. Adding up all the visible characters, alternate leaves, squat five petalled flowers, medium/large shrub (if the first two pics are of the same plant), inferior or at least sub-inferior ovary with five part calyx (also expanded to form part of the fruit - very Gaultheria-like).

And after all that bunkum, if I'm wrong, well, I'm wrong!

[Jacamar]

All of the pictures are of the same plant. I'm going to go work on the pictures you asked for.

[steve_nova]

Oooh, I thought I was getting closer with this species of Vaccinium from Guyana!

[Michael Frankis]

Got it, I think . . .

Cordia curassavica (Boraginaceae)

http://www.tropilab.com/blakauma.html

Amazing what google can do! (searched for "black sage" -salvia )

Michael

[Jacamar]

You got it Michael! Thanks!

[steve_nova]

Certainly looks very like it. I did a search for "Black Sage" too but only seemed to come up with Lamiaceae so didn't persue that line anymore.

[Michael Frankis]

Originally Posted by steve_nova

Certainly looks very like it. I did a search for "Black Sage" too but only seemed to come up with Lamiaceae so didn't persue that line anymore.

Same here - just got lots of Salvia stuff, until I had the idea of excluding salvia from the search

Just wish that the people who invent English names would consult their botanical texts before foisting such new names on everyone!

Michael

[Joern Lehmhus]

But it´s great you found it Michael, i´d never have guessed it´s in that family..