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Old Monday 20th September 2010, 15:09   #1
scottishdude
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Panjin China - ID Please

Hi There

I got this near 'Red Beach' at Panjin in North China which is about 200km south of ShenYang yesterday - there were quite a number of migrants there

I thought it might be a feamale Grey bushchat - Saxicola ferrea

Any other thoughts welcome

thanks in advance

Jamie
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Old Monday 20th September 2010, 15:24   #2
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No image...
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Old Monday 20th September 2010, 15:49   #3
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Not a bushchat...looks like an Acrocephalus or Cettia warbler of some description
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Old Monday 20th September 2010, 15:51   #4
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or Bush Warbler? eg. Brownish-flanked... but would that be in the open like that?

Edit: range wrong for that guess... but well, was just a guess anyway. I have no idea.

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Old Monday 20th September 2010, 16:00   #5
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I wonder if Blunt-winged Warbler (acro concinens) is a possiblity - I was looking at it in the guide yesterday, and some features (colors, including beak) look good, but I'm very poor at judging primary projection. Or perhaps the tail isn't really long enough for that...
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Old Monday 20th September 2010, 16:07   #6
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Maybe a fresh 'Manchurian' type Bush Warbler Cettia canturians included or split depending on who you follow with Japanese Bush warbler. They are regularly found as migrant birds in coastal locations in NE China, however something not right...
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Old Monday 20th September 2010, 16:47   #7
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Siberian Rubythroat, 1st-winter female.
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Old Monday 20th September 2010, 17:26   #8
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Haha, you're right, that's it! Tricky one... (to me that is)

http://orientalbirdimages.org/search...Family_ID=&p=2
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Old Monday 20th September 2010, 17:28   #9
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Siberian Rubythroat, 1st-winter female.
Teach me not to have a cursory glance ,

Agree with Jalid (pale covert tips) - http://orientalbirdimages.org/search...ID=&pagesize=1
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Old Monday 20th September 2010, 18:09   #10
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Yep, good call J!! Me, I only ever look at male rubythroats!
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Old Tuesday 21st September 2010, 02:41   #11
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Thank you all for your help ;-). I had thought about a first winter female but my book didn't show this hence my imagination went wild lol
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Old Tuesday 21st September 2010, 03:35   #12
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Another to ID from Panjin

Here is a warbler I could do with some help with I'm afarid I struggle with warbler like most people

thanks in advance
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Old Tuesday 21st September 2010, 03:58   #13
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No wing bar phylo - without distinct buffish or whitish wash to throat (Buff-throated and Yellow-streaked) or yellow underparts (Tickell's) - so its Radde's or Dusky. On bill shape - looks very Dusky Warbler
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Old Tuesday 21st September 2010, 10:06   #14
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Thanks China Guy, I will go with Dusky as I got many shots of Raddes and this one looks way too light im comparison I am asuming this is Radde's or possibley yellow-streaked

cheers

Jamie
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Old Tuesday 21st September 2010, 10:35   #15
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We get to see a fair few Yellow-streaked warbler during the breeding season - and that bird doesn't give me the YS jiz - so again I'd say a choice between Raddes and Dusky!!!! Saying that it's hard to separate the birds from individual photos - so take what I say with a little pinch of salt, since these birds are best ID'ed by call.

Here's a couple of pics of our Sichuan breeding Yellow-streaked, where both birds conveniently responded to playback - I always notice that light throat patch on our birds, but looking through the OBC images that also looks consistent with Radde's - I'm afraid it's a case of calls to be 100% certain : (
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Old Tuesday 21st September 2010, 10:58   #16
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Thanks again China Guy even more confusing. I thought this one was the yellow streaked as its throat seemed whiter and together they seemed slightly different. There were about 40-50 of each and about 30 Dusky a good place to go I might add
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Old Tuesday 21st September 2010, 11:36   #17
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Very educational that. I'd have said a bush warbler for the first bird given the rounded appearance of the tail feathers at first glance...but you live and learn.

The later warbler from ScottishDude looks like a Dusky to me, though on the rather large billed size.

The pics of Yellow-streaked are very interesting as they are so difficult to seperate from Dusky and especially Radde's.

I think they must occur as an extra-limital vagrant to Japan, but lack of familiarity with the species means they go unrecorded.

I'd have put the second pic from ScottishDude down as a Radde's, albeit a very bright individual...but as China Guy says difficult on one photo.

Anyway nice thread

Sean
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Old Tuesday 21st September 2010, 12:09   #18
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Anyway nice thread
Yes, very nice thread and great pics!
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Old Tuesday 21st September 2010, 15:12   #19
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I would agree that the first image, post 12 is a Dusky, it's cold toned, the bill is fine and the legs and feet relatively thin compared with your average Radde's.

The second image, I would agree with Radde's Warbler, it's quite thick-billed and stocky legged and although difficult to assess from just one strongly lit image, probably too heavy for Yellow-streaked,and the general tones have a strong olive influence.

With experience Yellow-streaked often appear thinner legged with a narrower, sharper bill. They are generally a browner, or brown-grey compared with the warm olive tones of Radde's. The pale throat is often clearly demarcated (less so in Radde's) and the super is often more distinct in front of the eye and whiter behind the eye - http://ibc.lynxeds.com/photo/yellow-...leaf-vegetable
A metallic bunting-like tzic call compared with the soft quip in Radde’s and the harsher 'knocking-pebbles' of Dusky may help in locating a migrant bird.

Not sure about your second image Sid, do you have another image of this one? Could be me but the head looks rather large and the pp rather short, if I'm judging it right. Face pattern reminds me of this - http://ibc.lynxeds.com/photo/brownis...s/singing-tree
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Old Tuesday 21st September 2010, 16:01   #20
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Hi Mark - my second image of Yellow-streaked was taken at Jiuzhaigou during June 2009 - lots of breeding YS in this area. I'm afraid we used YS song to get this guy in the open - and its pretty miffed-off and was in full song defending territory. In that aggressive puffed up pose it starts to take on a different type of profile.
I can't open your link - our local internet has become a touchy lately with regard to we can and cant open - but I think you're trying to direct me towards Brownish-flanked Bush Warbler. The song of that bird is so characteristic - and so commonly heard during the Sichuan summer that no way is my bird no 2 that species - but picture comparisons show how hard it is to differentiate these Warblers through photographs - especially when not being able to use that most important of field tools - our ears.
And to show the similarity - here's one of our pictures of Brownish-flanked - that was totally ID'ed through song.
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Old Tuesday 21st September 2010, 16:20   #21
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Thanks guys, sorry it is so tough

here is another shot of the same bird which I think is the yellow streaked

thanks again for your time and effort in doing this for me

cheers

Jamie
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Old Tuesday 21st September 2010, 16:26   #22
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Hi Sid,

I was linking to a facially very similar BFBW Sid, pity about the internet big brother!

Interesting image, as you say, puffed up and at a slightly odd angle. I would have struggled with this one had it been posted looking for an Id.
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Old Tuesday 21st September 2010, 16:40   #23
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The last image looks good for Yellow-streaked to me. Having said that I've found several birds in the past that looked good for YSW - thinner bill, super narrow at the rear - so I've made a point of following them until I've heard them call. They nearly always turn into Radde's. It's usually the distinctive call that draws me to a YSW.

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Old Tuesday 21st September 2010, 16:42   #24
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Sorry to be a pain, but can I throw this one into the pot too. I was told by a local birder that this is a juvenile black-faced bunting but I am not convinced. I thought may bhe a Pine or a Rustic - what's your thoughts???

cheers

Jamie
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Old Tuesday 21st September 2010, 16:54   #25
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Hi Jamie,

Its a Black-faced Bunting - Note the rump colouration, both Rustic and Pine show some chestnut - http://orientalbirdimages.org/birdim...166&pagesize=1 and http://www.tarsiger.com/gallery/inde...iva+DESC&sel=2

The eyestripe on the warbler is very thick (narrower in YSW), the overall tones fairly bright olive, even taking into consideration the light factor and despite the rather thin appearance of the bill and legs (female?) I'd lean towards Radde's from this shot. Any other shots of this bird?
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