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Old Tuesday 19th October 2010, 20:07   #1
scottishdude
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Herring or Vega- Panjin China

Hey guys and gals

This was taken at Red beach, Panjin China. I initially thought it was a herring gull, but has been pointed out to me that they are rarer there and is more likely to be a vega gull

What's your thought

Thanks in advance

Jamie
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Old Tuesday 19th October 2010, 22:12   #2
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I ain't home till thursday.need the helm Gull guide for this one.
Suffice to say long wings,short legs don't seem to fit for Herring,along with lack of white ion the upper primaries and long grey tongues like I've never seen under very short tertials make for an interesting gull.
As you might guess from my avatar I spend nearly every day in the winter ploughing through tens of thousands on Scottish beaches to find something different.Will be in touch on this one.
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Old Tuesday 19th October 2010, 22:37   #3
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Thanks Larusilster, It was the long primarys it got me!. Unfortunately I couldn't get it out of the direct sunlight but I'm almost sure the primarys had very little or no white on them!. Also I wasn't sure about it's posture hence why I took its photo in the end . Like you say it seemed short compared to how I remember herring gulls!
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Old Saturday 23rd October 2010, 16:06   #4
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So here I am home.
From Gulls of Europe,Asia and North America by Olsen and Larsson yoour choice is as follows(direct quotes in parentheses):-
I am assuming it is Panjin nexto the North Korea border we are talking about?

Black-tailed Gull Yellow legs and 3 tone bill as adult,so out.
Common/Kamchatka :red pecking spot rules these out.
Mongolian Gull(either full species or race of Caspian):"legs vary from yellow to fleshy,eyes from dark to pale"and worse still"jizz similar to Vega Gull,with which winter range overlaps""compared to Vega slightly longer wings""shape and jizz similar to Vega and Heuglin's".Wings Kodak 5-6
Vega Gull.Kodak 5-8 in wings.
Slaty-backed Gull:darker and jizz of Glaucous-winged,so no way.
Heuglin's Gull:Kodak grey 8-11 and indistinguishable from Lesser-black back.Too dark and yellow-legged .So out."taimyrensis" is considered to be a cross between Heuglin's and Vega.

So that gives us 3 options(Herring is out incidentally as it is confined to Western Europe.)all pretty similar in jizz and colours,though there is a slight cline on wing colour.Mongolian palest(approaching argenteus at times),Vega in the middle,and "taimyrensis"darkest.

To me in your photo wing colour is spot on for argentatus and yellow-legged gull,so the wing colour fits Vega best.I think it is too pale for even the palest "tiamyrensis",judging from photos I can find,they approach LBB far more.The amount of streaking around the head is probably too much fo mongolian,which is similar to Cachinnans in winter.
The eye on Mongolian,though yellow with a red orbital ring and set futher back than in cachinnans is still small.Your bird seems to have a large bright yellow eye.
Vega should show the least primary black of the three,which is consistent with your photo.
I would plump for Vega taking these points into consideration.
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Old Saturday 23rd October 2010, 17:06   #5
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Thanks Laruslister for all your trouble

Yes it is the Panjin near N Korea

Interesting to know that the Herring gull is not found there as it is mention to be found there in my book! Unless of course it has been misidentified for years

Another tick for me ;-)))) 703 photographed in 5 years not bad !!!

P.S I owe you a pint ;-)
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Old Saturday 23rd October 2010, 17:55   #6
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I think Mongolian,along with Caspian(which technically it is by some authorities) was lumped under Herring at one time in the dark distany past before DNA testing,probably not a quite up-to-date book for classification.

As you live in Nottingham,and I'm in troon I may have a wee wait for that pint.looking forward to it ,all the same.
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