[u9jzp6]

Hi,

Can anyone identify these birds? The photographs were taken on November 13, 2010 in Salisbury State Reservation, Newburyport, Massachusetts.

I can recognize the adult eiders, I included them for size comparison. I am particularly wondering about the first two pictures and the last picture. In the first two there is a bird with the top half of the head black and the bottom gray, and one with two white spots on either side of the eye, and one with an almost complete white line below the eye. The last picture I think is a loon, is it possible to tell what type from the photograph?


Thanks

[Parker]

The light isn't to good but the Diver/Loon could be White Billed looking at the shape of the Bill.

It's either White Billed or Great Northern.

[Larry Lade]

Photo # 1 looks like a White-winged Scoter in foreground and a Black Scoter behind it.
Photo # 2 looks like a Surf Scoter in front and a White-winged behind it.
Photo # 3, Common Eider in foreground, White-winged behind it.
Photo # 4, all of the above.
Photo # 5 looks like a Common Loon (aka. Great Northern Diver).

[rockfowl]

Originally Posted by Larry Lade

Photo # 1 looks like a Surf Scoter in foreground and a Black Scoter behind it.
Photo # 2 looks like a Black Scoter in front and a White-winged behind it.

I think the other birds are White-winged Scoters and the loon, to me, looks like a Common Loon.

Agree

[Parker]

Originally Posted by rockfowl

Agree

Common/ Great Northern indeed.

[Larry Lade]

Looking a little closer of the photos, I have edited my initial post. (Sorry for the inconvenience.)

[Andrew Whitehouse]

Originally Posted by Larry Lade

Photo # 1 looks like a White-winged Scoter in foreground and a Black Scoter behind it.
Photo # 2 looks like a Surf Scoter in front and a White-winged behind it.
Photo # 3, Common Eider in foreground, White-winged behind it.
Photo # 4, all of the above.
Photo # 5 looks like a Common Loon (aka. Great Northern Diver).

Struggling a bit to see the White-winged Scoters in these pictures. Picture 1 looks like Surf and Black to me and picture two like two Surf Scoters. The bill looks to heavy and broad-based for White-winged.

Picture 5 is Common Loon, as others have said.

[Parker]

In the first photo surely the bird at the front is a Surf Scoter. I agree the bird at the back is a Black Scoter.
The second photo, White Winged Scoter at the back, not sure about the front bird.

[rockfowl]

Originally Posted by Andrew Whitehouse

Struggling a bit to see the White-winged Scoters in these pictures. Picture 1 looks like Surf and Black to me and picture two like two Surf Scoters. The bill looks to heavy and broad-based for White-winged.

Picture 5 is Common Loon, as others have said.

You're right, not paying attention! (watching the GP )

[Adam W]

Surely the 2 birds in pic 2 arent the same species they look totally different, different Head pattern different bill and the front bird is only about two thirds the size of the one behind it.

Surf at the front and White Winged at the back?

[Parker]

Originally Posted by rockfowl

You're right, not paying attention! (watching the GP )

Yes bloody good ain't it.

[rockfowl]

Originally Posted by Parker

Yes bloody good ain't it.

Yep!

[Tib78]

Pic one definitely shows a Black scoter and a Surf Scoter.

The other birds are little bit more difficult. I agree with Andrew, I don't think there is a White-winged scoter in there, but not for the same reason: difficult to judge the bill shape and feathering (or lack of...).
They look like Surf to me because of the contrast between the dark crown and paler cheeks (resminiscent of Black/Common) typical of female-type plumaged Surf Scoter. Crown and cheek normaly concolorous in White-winged. Sometimes usefull at long range.

See:
http://www.pbase.com/bcurrie/image/70549699


Surf:
http://www.carolinanature.com/birds/surfscoter9408.jpg
http://www.bigcountryaudubon.org/wp-...C_IMG_7392.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_lfIAxnZB-v...3-10-57+PM.JPG (wrongly labelled as a White-winged)

White-winged:
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_WiBvr82UtBM/Rz...-091107-08.jpg
http://www.animalpicturesarchive.com...tid=2&did=6520

[Andrew Whitehouse]

Originally Posted by Tib78

Pic one definitely shows a Black scoter and a Surf Scoter.

The other birds are little bit more difficult. I agree with Andrew, I don't think there is a White-winged scoter in there, but not for the same reason: difficult to judge the bill shape and feathering (or lack of...).
They look like Surf to me because of the contrast between the dark crown and paler cheeks (resminiscent of Black/Common) typical of female-type plumaged Surf Scoter. Crown and cheek normaly concolorous in White-winged. Sometimes usefull at long range.

See:
http://www.pbase.com/bcurrie/image/70549699


Surf:
http://www.carolinanature.com/birds/surfscoter9408.jpg
http://www.bigcountryaudubon.org/wp-...C_IMG_7392.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_lfIAxnZB-v...3-10-57+PM.JPG (wrongly labelled as a White-winged)

White-winged:
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_WiBvr82UtBM/Rz...-091107-08.jpg
http://www.animalpicturesarchive.com...tid=2&did=6520

Some useful pointers and links there (I also noticed that wrongly labelled one when I did an image search!). I agree that you can't discern the extent of feathering in these photographs. What I notice most about these birds, particularly having looked at a few more images, is that the front of the head and bill seems too short for White-winged. White-winged has a more elongated 'long-nosed' look to it than is evident in any of these birds.

Just to answer Adam's points, the birds in the second picture seem like they're a similar size to me. Less of the front bird is visible because it's hidden behind a small wave. I think the other variations are just down to individual variation and perhaps different plumages. Scoters are pretty variable.

[Adam W]

Originally Posted by Andrew Whitehouse

Just to answer Adam's points, the birds in the second picture seem like they're a similar size to me. Less of the front bird is visible because it's hidden behind a small wave. I think the other variations are just down to individual variation and perhaps different plumages. Scoters are pretty variable.

You might be right there i can see how they might actually be the same size, the only thing bothering me about them being Surf is the bill colour on the front bird,it doesnt seem to fit Surf but does seem to fit White Winged.

[Andrew Whitehouse]

Originally Posted by Adam W

You might be right there i can see how they might actually be the same size, the only thing bothering me about them being Surf is the bill colour on the front bird,it doesnt seem to fit Surf but does seem to fit White Winged.

The front bird is facing a bit to the left, which also makes the head and bill look smaller. It's a 1st winter male I think (whatever species it is!), which explains the colour.

[Adam W]

Originally Posted by Andrew Whitehouse

The front bird is facing a bit to the left, which also makes the head and bill look smaller. It's a 1st winter male I think (whatever species it is!), which explains the colour.

Wouldnt a 1st winter male of either species show an all dark head except the whitish patch on the back of the head of Surf? but then a female wouldnt show any bill colour so now I'm even more confused

[Andrew Whitehouse]

Originally Posted by Adam W

Wouldnt a 1st winter male of either species show an all dark head except the whitish patch on the back of the head of Surf? but then a female wouldnt show any bill colour so now I'm even more confused

I don't think it would be a problem early in the winter when any 1st winter male scoter is going to be in transition from the female-like juvenile plumage to a more adult male plumage. 1st winter male scoters are often a bit weird looking.

[Adam W]

Originally Posted by Andrew Whitehouse

I don't think it would be a problem early in the winter when any 1st winter male scoter is going to be in transition from the female-like juvenile plumage to a more adult male plumage. 1st winter male scoters are often a bit weird looking.

Fair point so it probably is a 1st winter male but from the bill pattern I'd still be more inclined to say white winged than Surf but then again i suppose the bill pattern could be inbetween juve and 1st winter plumage like the head pattern.

[Larry Lade]

* From Sibley's "Guide to Birds", page 94.

Black Scoter - 19 inches
Surf Scoter - 20 inches
White-winged Scoter - 21 inches



In photo # 2 the head of the bird in the foreground looks smaller than the head of the bird in the background. The first bird also looks smaller. The dark area between the facial white patches appears to be more narrow in the first bird (which is the way it appears in the bird guide). The white wing patch is not always visible on White-wingeds until they are in flight. The front bird also seems to be to displace a more peaked crown towards the front of the head.

In my estimation the group of swimming birds appear to be led by a Black Scoter, 2nd a Surf Scoter, then a male Common Eider, followed by two female Common Eiders and the three remaining being White-winged Scoters.

Just my "two pence" worth!

[dacol]

My guesses:
1- White-winged Scoter and Black Scoter.
2-White-winged Scoters.
3-Common Eider and White-winged Scoter.
4-Black Scoter, White-winged Scoter, Common Eider, White-winged Scoter, White-winged Scoter, Common Eider, Common Eider, White-winged Scoter.
5- Common Loon.

Regarding the brd in pic 1, it seems to me that the frontal white patch in a Surf Scoter would have to be more vertical and reach to the base (bottom) of the beak, which is not the case with the bird that I think is a White-winged Scoter.

Dalcio