[Cubbsy]

This is only the second moth I've photographed, while I wait for my Skinners book 'moths of the british Isles' i've no Idea what i'm looking at, but I am gaining an interest here ........... Is this addictive like Birding? Her indoors thinks i'm off me Trolly!!

[Surreybirder]

Originally Posted by Cubbsy

This is only the second moth I've photographed, while I wait for my Skinners book 'moths of the british Isles' i've no Idea what i'm looking at, but I am gaining an interest here ........... Is this addictive like Birding? Her indoors thinks i'm off me Trolly!!

I think it's a heart and dart.
I think mothing is a male thing, mostly. But there again, you'd think that there'd be lots of female mothers!

I'm thinking of writing an article for my county bird group beginning...
I became a mother recently. The short nights have been hard, but on the whole the joys have outweighed the pain.
Good luck with Skinner! I find it v hard to use... but that's probably just me. Have you come across the excellent UK moths website at:
www.ukmoths.force9.co.uk
Look at heart and dart there and see if you agree! (Moths can be quite variable in colour, which is very confusing to those of us who were brought up as birders!)

[harry eales]

Originally Posted by Surreybirder

I think it's a heart and dart.
I think mothing is a male thing, mostly. But there again, you'd think that there'd be lots of female mothers!

I'm thinking of writing an article for my county bird group beginning...
I became a mother recently. The short nights have been hard, but on the whole the joys have outweighed the pain.
Good luck with Skinner! I find it v hard to use... but that's probably just me. Have you come across the excellent UK moths website at:
www.ukmoths.force9.co.uk
Look at heart and dart there and see if you agree! (Moths can be quite variable in colour, which is very confusing to those of us who were brought up as birders!)

Hi Ken,

It is a heart and Dart, the black collar is diagnognostic.

Good to see you doing other people's ID's for a change. Does that mean we won't be getting lots of pics from you in future. lol.

Harry

[Angus T]

Ken is right with Heart & Dart. The black stripe across forehead is a good diagnostic feature.
I think once you acclimatise to Skinner, then I think generally the pictures are better than Waring. I'm quite disappointed with the accurracy of some of the pictures in Waring, but I do use it for cross reference, so its certainly not gathering dust.

We'd be only too delighted at trying to ID your pictures. Ken has been giving us lots of practice!!


Happy Mothing.

[Surreybirder]

Originally Posted by harry eales

Hi Ken,

It is a heart and Dart, the black collar is diagnognostic.

Good to see you doing other people's ID's for a change. Does that mean we won't be getting lots of pics from you in future. lol.

Harry

No chance!
But IDing h & d isn't exactly rocket science, even for me!!

Angus, I wonder if you could give me an example of a picture that's inaccurate in Waring and Townsend. I'd just be interested to compare it with Skinner. (I've got Skinner's first edition which, I've read, also contains errors.)

[Cubbsy]

Many thanks, Ken/Angus/Harry ..........I've found the site 'uk mothsforce9' and there moth.... Heart and Dart.
I see what you mean about different colour shades for the same type of moth, at least after they have been photographed.
An MV Lamp is on the shopping list.

[Angus T]

Originally Posted by Surreybirder

No chance!
But IDing h & d isn't exactly rocket science, even for me!!

Angus, I wonder if you could give me an example of a picture that's inaccurate in Waring and Townsend. I'd just be interested to compare it with Skinner. (I've got Skinner's first edition which, I've read, also contains errors.)

Some of the ones I'm unhappy with, are Rustic/Uncertain. Its not advancing the cause for me.
same with Chestnut/ Dark Chestnut.
I struggled with Double Square Spot today, as clear as day out of Skinner.
Clouded Drab,
Dark Spectacle.

Now while most of the above won't lead to make incorrect Id, the one that has stood out for me this Spring, is Red Chestnut.
I could not convince a new recorder locally that a moth she had was this species until I showed her the one in Skinner.

Much of this may well be regional differences, and its only a few moths.
The pics in Skinner are photographs of the atual moth, not drawings. Some of them are a bit blurred, and the pug plate is a bit of a disaster, but there is detail on the moths in Skinner that are just not shown in Waring, and I'm down to this while trying to determine, Brocades etc.

I was recently advised to ignore the text pictures in Skinner as in some of them they're more a hindrance than help.
I've mentioned it along with many others, that the books compliment each other and if budget can stretch, then its worth having both

[harry eales]

Originally Posted by Angus T

Some of the ones I'm unhappy with, are Rustic/Uncertain. Its not advancing the cause for me.
same with Chestnut/ Dark Chestnut.
I struggled with Double Square Spot today, as clear as day out of Skinner.
Clouded Drab,
Dark Spectacle.

Now while most of the above won't lead to make incorrect Id, the one that has stood out for me this Spring, is Red Chestnut.
I could not convince a new recorder locally that a moth she had was this species until I showed her the one in Skinner.

Much of this may well be regional differences, and its only a few moths.
The pics in Skinner are photographs of the atual moth, not drawings. Some of them are a bit blurred, and the pug plate is a bit of a disaster, but there is detail on the moths in Skinner that are just not shown in Waring, and I'm down to this while trying to determine, Brocades etc.

I was recently advised to ignore the text pictures in Skinner as in some of them they're more a hindrance than help.
I've mentioned it along with many others, that the books compliment each other and if budget can stretch, then its worth having both

I agree with all Angus has written, even specialised books like British and Irish Pug moths and British Pyralid Moths, don't help to a great degree as the pictures are life size. A book with lifesize and greatly enlarged pictures of individual species would be ideal. I sometimes have to check four of five different books to sort out some of the problem ID's.

Whilst Skinner and Waring & Townsend are both valuable books to have, I sometimes find that occasionally older books are more help. The early editions of South's British Moths (2 vols) had photographs of set specimens and many of these pictures show more detail than Skinner. In later editions these were replaced by paintings.

What I think is really needed is a book that goes into the fine detail of identifying the 'Awkward' species, such as those mentioned by Angus. Another possibility would be a CD-ROM of the same species with the salient points of identification indicated by arrows. That would be of advantage to not just beginners but many experts as well.

Harry.

[The Drinker]

Originally Posted by harry eales

What I think is really needed is a book that goes into the fine detail of identifying the 'Awkward' species, such as those mentioned by Angus. Another possibility would be a CD-ROM of the same species with the salient points of identification indicated by arrows. That would be of advantage to not just beginners but many experts as well.

Harry.

So when can we be expecting to add EALES to our library then Harry?

[harry eales]

Originally Posted by The Drinker

So when can we be expecting to add EALES to our library then Harry?

I thought you might have done it Ian,

I am busy writing up two local Atlas's on Bumblebees and Dragonflies. When they are finished I am considering a Monograph on The Large Heath Butterfly which I have studied for the past ten years. By the time that's finished I'll be too old to do anything else.

Harry

[Surreybirder]

Originally Posted by harry eales

I thought you might have done it Ian,

I am busy writing up two local Atlas's on Bumblebees and Dragonflies. When they are finished I am considering a Monograph on The Large Heath Butterfly which I have studied for the past ten years. By the time that's finished I'll be too old to do anything else.

Harry

Come off it! Many of us are living to a great age nowadays. A moth equivalent to the Macmillan Bird Guide would be a great contribution. (It is basically a series of identification papers of 'difficult' species.) Who better to write it!

[harry eales]

Originally Posted by Surreybirder

Come off it! Many of us are living to a great age nowadays. A moth equivalent to the Macmillan Bird Guide would be a great contribution. (It is basically a series of identification papers of 'difficult' species.) Who better to write it!

Ken,
According to many female friends who I have met through a XXX rated web site, I look young and attractive for a man of my age, I am apparently very masculine, and extremely virile for a man of my age. But what really bothers me, is the portrait of myself in the attic.

Should you not get the gist of this, try reading some Oscar Wilde. lol.

Harry

[Surreybirder]

You mean you read inscrutable books on entomology and Oscar Wilde!! (I'm afraid that as a graduate in physics, both of these are a bit beyond me. And, before you ask, so is most physics nowadays!)

[harry eales]

Originally Posted by Surreybirder

You mean you read inscrutable books on entomology and Oscar Wilde!! (I'm afraid that as a graduate in physics, both of these are a bit beyond me. And, before you ask, so is most physics nowadays!)

Hi Ken,
I didn't know you could get a degree in physics. I thought things like philosan, Cod Liver Oil and such were fairly common knowledge. Keep taking the pills. lol.
Harry

[Surreybirder]

That's a bitter pill to swallow, coming from you, Harry!
Quantum mechanics is probably a pushover compared to trying to understand some of the entomological species concepts!
(I'll award you an Oscar for wilde humour... )
Isn't it time we guillotined this thread

[harry eales]

Originally Posted by Surreybirder

That's a bitter pill to swallow, coming from you, Harry!
Quantum mechanics is probably a pushover compared to trying to understand some of the entomological species concepts!
(I'll award you an Oscar for wilde humour... )
Isn't it time we guillotined this thread

I cant afford to get quantum mechanics, labour is far to expensive at my local garage, I have to do all my own car repairs and maintenence.

I agree, kill the thread, I'm running out of corny jokes

Harry