[kuwaity]

from North Kuwait .. taken first of May, 2004
thanks ...

[RockyRacoon]

Originally Posted by kuwaity

from North Kuwait .. taken first of May, 2004
thanks ...

I'm not sure at all, but I think its a Red Headed Bunting

[Andrew Whitehouse]

I'm not sure at all either Jake. I'm surprised at how streaky it is on the underparts. Anyone know how common that is in either of these species?

[Jess2002]

I would have put my bet on red headed, purely because of the more chesnut tone to the head, although I agree the streaking on the breast does bother me slightly. is there any other possibilities, is this type of streaking observed on newly fledged birds?

[Jess2002]

Just done some research, fine streaks on the breast can be observed in juvenile red breasted buntings, although this doesnt help matters as juv black and red headed buntings are often inseperable!

[tom mckinney]

Do you even get Red-headed anywhere near to Kuwait? Without checking I'd imagine Black-headed is much more likely around that area.

It's got a very strong malar...

[Jane Turner]

This is one of those species pairs I always need to read up on.. however from memory the wamth to the mantle streaking is a good Black-headed feature

[kuwaity]

Red-headed Bunting (Emberiza bruniceps)
Vagrant. A first-year at Jahra Pool on 6.10.2003.

Black-headed Bunting (Emberiza melanocephala)
Rare passage migrant.

- from the annual report 2003 of Kuwait -

i have also posted a photo for a black-headed
this is the link
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=18418

[Edward woodwood]

extremely difficult though i'd tend to agree with Jane and say that the warm tones and chestnuttiness is indicative of Black-headed......and BH is statistically more likely by a way i think

though to be honest I've tried doing these so many times and i do think it's not possible in many or perhaps even most cases from a pic

[Harry Hussey]

Hi all,
As with Jane,I always feel that I have to read up on the difficult pairing of Black-headed and Red-headed Buntings(other than adult males,which are easy!).Nevertheless,I feel that this is most likely a Black-headed:I also seem to remember rufous tones on the mantle being better for BH,as is the amount of yellow on the underparts and perceived longish bill.RH is described as being a smaller shorter-billed bird:think that a bird believed to be juv/1st-w RH Bunting on Scilly in autumn 1998 was originally reported as a Common Rosefinch!
Of course,the statistics help too....
Harry

[tom mckinney]

Originally Posted by Harry Hussey

think that a bird believed to be juv/1st-w RH Bunting on Scilly in autumn 1998 was originally reported as a Common Rosefinch!

Harry

I seem to remember one well known birder also staked a lot on it being Cinereous Bunting...

[Jane Turner]

Black-headed Bunting female;

For reference

[godwit]

"I seem to remember one well known birder also staked a lot on it being Cinereous Bunting..."

That's a coincidence because that's what I think Kuwaity's bird is!

Dave

[Jess2002]

I agree, i never thought of cinereous bunting as a possibility, but now i look at the bird it looks very similar to the birds i saw on lesbos. The streaking on the breast to me seemed a bit strange for either of the buntings, cinereous would explain this. Also isn't cinereous a more common possibility in kuwait?

[godwit]

I've now had a chance to check some references and I'm convinced this a Cinereous Bunting of the eastern race semenowi, probably a female.

Dave

[kuwaity]

well i thought it was a Cinereous Bunting at first .... but a good birder friend here in Kuwait said otherwise .. because of how the legs appear .. i mean the bird being higher from the ground ...like a red or black headed ... not like Cenereous which seem to have shorter legs ... at least that's what i can tell from the images in Collins bird guide ...
i don't know ...

[tom mckinney]

I also thought Cinereous and that's why I timidly mentioned the "strong malar...." hoping someone would agree or say I was talking cr*p. Never seen Cinereous and only a few male Red-headed so not really in a place to comment.

[godwit]

Hi Kuwaity,

I wouldn't worry about apparent leg length.

The combination of basically yellow underparts (buffy in the other two), diffuse streaking on the breast (plain in the other two), clear moustachial and submoustachial stripes (probably never shown by the other two), prominent white eye-ring (much weaker in the other two), obvious white wingbars and a row of warm toned scapulars is diagnostic of Cinereous.

If it was very hot when the images were taken the bird will naturally have stood as tall as possible to keep cool.

Nice pics of a little known (sub)species!

Dave

[kuwaity]

HI Dave..
i think you're right ...
i just checked my friends website
http://www.alsarhan.net/Arabic/Cinereous_Bunting.htm

and the photo he has is exactly same bird we got here ...

thanks all for helping ...
abdullah