[Tony Adkins]

Hi All,

Just found the birdforum. This is an urgent call for opinions on which Bins might be the best for birding in tropical rainforest (very wet and humid), mainly in regard to power, field of view and birding in dense vegetation. I'm starting a research project soon in rainforest fragments on the Atherton Tablelands (Queensland, Australia). I'll be observing foraging behavior and habitat use and was thinking 8x42 might be best for that. But, will also need to read color leg bands and was thinking 10x42 might be best for that. Currently leaning toward 8x42 Nikon venturers (LX/HG) because they would be easier on the checkbook (remember, I'm a student on a tight budget ) than Swarov ELs, but SLCs are a possibility.

I need to buy the bins in the in next week, so quick responses would be VERY APPRECIATED. Wish I had found the forum earlier!!!!!!

Too bad the Nikon SE aren't waterproof, they look like a great bin for the price.

Thanks, Tony

[KCFoggin]

Hi there Tony and on behalf of the staff here at BirdForum.net, a warm welcome to you.

I will leave your question to those more experienced in the bin dept. Have you, by any chance, gone throught the threads in our optics forums? You might find some information there until someone more knowledgeable can answer your question here.

[horukuru]

by the way, i went to one of the mountain in Malaysia with my friend few months ago for birdwatching and he was using Pentax DCF WP 8*42. No problem at all coz, we were in between the lowland rainforest and montane forest about 1200 m a.s.l

this is my opinion, but other member may have another suggestions :o

[Wrenman]

Originally Posted by Tony Adkins

Hi All,

Just found the birdforum. This is an urgent call for opinions on which Bins might be the best for birding in tropical rainforest (very wet and humid), mainly in regard to power, field of view and birding in dense vegetation. I'm starting a research project soon in rainforest fragments on the Atherton Tablelands (Queensland, Australia). I'll be observing foraging behavior and habitat use and was thinking 8x42 might be best for that. But, will also need to read color leg bands and was thinking 10x42 might be best for that. Currently leaning toward 8x42 Nikon venturers (LX/HG) because they would be easier on the checkbook (remember, I'm a student on a tight budget ) than Swarov ELs, but SLCs are a possibility.

I need to buy the bins in the in next week, so quick responses would be VERY APPRECIATED. Wish I had found the forum earlier!!!!!!

Too bad the Nikon SE aren't waterproof, they look like a great bin for the price.

Thanks, Tony

Tony,

I am currently using 10X42 Swarov SLCs to see color bands on Carolina Wrens in a relatively dark forest with a dense understory. They perform well and are rugged. I have tried many binocs (e.g., Leica 7X42 and 7X35, Ziess 7X42 classics, B&H elites 10X42, Swarov 8X30, 10X50 SLC, Swift Audubon's 8.5 X 45, Nikon 8X32 SE) over the years and think the SLC 10X42 are the best for my needs. I have found that the extra power does make a difference in seeing the colors and is more important than the larger FOV and DOF that the lower magnifications offer. I also sometimes use a Bushnell spacemaster II (15X eyepiece) mounted on a gunstock-like support that works well.

Best,
Tom

[Tony Adkins]

Tom,

Thanks for your advice. I haven't gotten my hands around a pair of 10x42 SLCs yet, but will definately give them a try. Good to know about your thoughts regarding advantage of 10x vs. FOV under these circumstances.

[marek_walford]

Hi there,

I know you've ruled out Swaro EL's but I used them in the Cloud Forests of Costa Rica recently and was glad I ditched my cheap bins last year! If you want to read bands I would probably suggest 10x. My Swaro's are 10x and it didn't give me any problems with regards field of view.

Now, to state the blindingly obvious...

Waterproof
Weight (hacking round a rain forest all day is very hard work!)
Brightness (it's dark in the rain forest!)

Also, don't forget to get some decent optic cleaning fluid etc. You don't want to mess up your new expensive bins under the harsh conditions. I spent a lot of time wiping my lens with a lens cloth. One last thing, find a decent waterproof notebook!

I'm sure somebody can tell you more about the Nikon.

Good luck!

[Grousemore]

Hi Tony,some good advice for your query already.
Just a point though,there is no need to post the same question several times,as eveyone will see it in any event,from the 'New Posts' feature....this will also ensure that everyone can see the previous answers and avoid duplication of advice/information.

[Edward woodwood]

make sure they're absolutely watertight

this is essential....any humidity in there or fungal growth will be a real pain in the backside....

Go with something reliable and established. I used Zeiss Dialyts for two years in an extremely humid climate non stop and never had a problems. My new Nikon HGs have only done about 3 months jungle so far but are holding up well - DEET has taken the nameplate off though!

field of view is very important so 7 by is great as is 8x and brightness is crucial - hence i favour 7 for serios rainforest birding although 8 is perfectly fine too

I have heard (a friend of mine) of Swarovs fogging in ther forest - maybe he had duff pairs but it happened three time......

[Andy Bright]

It's been a while since I was birding in a tropical rainforest, but one aspect that I felt was important was the grip on the bino... There was nothing worse than sweaty palms combined with a flat untextured body.
Watch out for DEET, don't get it on the glass... it eats away at any lens coatings.

[Dan drough]

Originally Posted by Andy Bright

It's been a while since I was birding in a tropical rainforest, but one aspect that I felt was important was the grip on the bino... There was nothing worse than sweaty palms combined with a flat untextured body.
Watch out for DEET, don't get it on the glass... it eats away at any lens coatings.

WTH is DEET?
Do not use lens cleaning fluid - it may affect seals. Use a camera lens paper & spit! Less trash to cart around. Any decent nitrogen filled optic is fine - I use Minolta 10 x 42 (£250 in Selfridges Oxford St). Also consider using a waist bag (bum bag?) to carry bins to avoid weight / chaffing around neck. 10 years experience E & W Africa talking here!

[Grousemore]

DEET is a constituent of many insect repellents,particularly for mosquitos.

I have a pair of the Minoltas as well...very underrated binocular.

[Andy Bright]

Originally Posted by Dan drough

WTH is DEET?
Do not use lens cleaning fluid - it may affect seals. Use a camera lens paper & spit! Less trash to cart around.

We have a thread on the cleaning of optics, it even goes into the chemical analysis of breath and saliva ... so maybe a thread for a rainy day/weekend

[Edward woodwood]

Dan

deet is diethyl toluamide or something similar and is a powerful insect repellent. Works very well on leeches but is more usually used on mozzies. Makes your face burn a bit though.....nasty stuff and i think it is carcinogenic too

[Grousemore]

Originally Posted by Tim Allwood

.....nasty stuff and i think it is carcinogenic too

Haven't heard that one,Tim...any further information available?

I know the pecentage of DEET varies from product to product and seem to recall that anything above 25% was considered sufficient.
Just looked at one of mine and it's 95% DEET;will give that a miss!

[Edward woodwood]

Hi Trevor

you're right DEET is not carcinogenic - I'm thinking of the stuff before DEET but i can't remember it's name. I think DEET was the 'safe' replacement.

so keep DEETing tropical birders - loads of garlic works to but your fellow birders may not be so happy!

[Grousemore]

That's a relief,Tim !...and for those that don't like garlic (poor fools),apparently Marmite works as well.

[birdman]

Originally Posted by Grousemore

...apparently Marmite works as well.

Is that as a lotion?

[Grousemore]

Originally Posted by birdman

Is that as a lotion?

I'm sure it can be used as such,Dave...whatever turns you on !
In case you were serious,apparently by ingesting marmite,subsequently a barely perceptible odour is exuded from the skin,which deters mozzies.

[seawatcher]

Originally Posted by Grousemore

I'm sure it can be used as such,Dave...whatever turns you on !
In case you were serious,apparently by ingesting marmite,subsequently a barely perceptible odour is exuded from the skin,which deters mozzies.

For info: Another mozzie deterrent which works is vitamin B tablets (careful not to overdo these - otherwise you will have more to worry about than a few bites!!). Vit B to keep them at bay to some extent. Marmite as we all know is full of B-vitamins so it may be something other than the odour that repels insects??

BTW, the word Marmite appears in several of the threads in Bird Forum - shows how many Brits there are in the birding world?

Anyway, this thread has gone off the rails a bit (a lot?). The whole point is that someone wants tips on what bins to take in the rain forest. My Nikon HGs have not provided any problems in steamy or damp conditions.

[njlarsen]

My Leica's (10x42) are doing fine after living 2 years in the Caribbean, Dominica has a lot of rain forest!. I know they might be out of your range economically, but you are really asking for something like the 8x/12x Leica duovids; 8x for general id, 12x when you need to see the color of rings.

just a thought
Niels

[Tony Adkins]

WoW, thanks to all of you for the fast and informative comments!

Marek - Good summary of points to consider, definately keeping those in mind and I think that you are probably right about the 10X magnification (particularly after Wrenman and njlarsen's comments).

Tim I agree with your comments about field of view, but reading color bands (rings) is a very important aspect of my study (home range mapping), otherwise I'd probably go with the 8X.

Tim & Andy and all thanks for the mozzie and DEET tips, makes sense since most of it's similar to an organic solvent, I've had it dissolve plastic surfaces in the past. I've found that although extremely noxious, the 95% is the only may to go when in areas like the tropics or even temparate areas with lots of biting flies.

Dandrough & Grousemore which Minolta is that? I have the 10X50 Activas but was thinking that the optical quality and field of view aren't quite what I need for this project.

Dandrough I have a slide and flex harness (crooked horn outfitters) so that should help carry the load, even for the Nikon HG/LX and will also be using my Mountainsmith Daypack bumpack (I highly recommend it for it's size if anyone needs one, keeps your back cool and lighter than a backpack).

Seawatcher thanks for getting the discussion back on point, after Tim's comments about Swaro's fogging, and given my additional desire for relatively close focus (I also do butterfly work), I'm leaning toward the Nikon LX/HG 10X42.

But more comments regarding Nikon LX/HG 10x42 vs. Swarov SLC are welcome. Those ELs are nice and would be a lot easier to carry, but they're just out of my price range.

FYI, for those that have not seen this, the Cornell Bird Lab did a bin comparative test with multiple birders and picked the Nikon LX 10X42 as their best in class, although the Swaro EL was not included in their review. You can see the review at the link below.

http://www.birds.cornell.edu/publica...g99/binos.html

Thanks again!

[Andy Bright]

10x shouldn't be too bad, certainly a slight loss of light/f.o.v. but I'd gues you will have plenty of tree trunks to brace yourself against to improve stabilty.
Nikons do tend to get plenty of good reviews in the U.S.

cigarette smoke is a good mossie repellant, a lit cigarette could also remove a leech or two ... and it's also carcinogenic

[Swissboy]

Close focussing is another point to consider. I used a Leica 8x32 BA and that 3.25 m minimum definitely was not close enough for certain observations. Of course, it depends what kind of species you are working on.

In addition, I had several frustrating encounters where my binoculars did not allow to identify colors because the picture was too dark. So go for something like 8x42, unless you get a Zeiss. They are brighter. I would assume that the Zeiss Victory II 10x40 might fit your bill. Particularly so, as it might be had at a lower price with its replacement being around the corner. But be sure not to get the Victory (I), it has too much glare when you need to look up into the trees with the sky in the background.

Nitrogen filling is a must, as well, but others have already pointed that out.

Hope you find a good solution for your needs. And all the best for your exciting project.

Robert

[Swissboy]

Originally Posted by Tony Adkins

FYI, for those that have not seen this, the Cornell Bird Lab did a bin comparative test with multiple birders and picked the Nikon LX 10X42 as their best in class, although the Swaro EL was not included in their review. You can see the review at the link below.

http://www.birds.cornell.edu/publica...g99/binos.html

One more thing, I gave that table a brief look again: This review is a bit dated as there have been many new models since. But, apparently, there are also some mistakes. The close focus indicated for Leica's 8x32 BA is certainly not 6'. It's possible they tested the BN model, but I seem to recall that the 10x32 BN has closer focussing that the 8x32 BN. And the table gives 8' for the 10x32. Thus, something must have been mixed up at least in that case. So it makes you wonder about the other numbers as well. Before you buy, make sure the model you have decided on really has the specifications you need. Don't decide just by looking at a less than perfect compilation. However, such tables are a good way to start.

Robert

[Tony Adkins]

Robert,

Thank you for your recommendations and encouragement. I'm very much looking forward to getting into the field. I wasn't aware of Zeiss' brightness, that is a very important factor for me to consider. I'll have a look at the Victory IIs hadn't really considered them.

Regards,

Tony