[John Russell]

http://www.minox.de/index.php?id=4790&L=1

Obviously of limited interest to birders and I would have thought it would have been easy to accommodate a minimum IPD of less than 58 mm.

RRP in Germany is €279.

John

[ceasar]

Is there some law against making these with a center focus? Or are they designed primarily for Law Enforcement and the Military? Nice FOV.

This is what Pentax should do with it's center focusing 9 x 28. Make a 7 x 28 sibling!

Bob

[Kevin Purcell]

Thanks, John.

My word they look odd. They have that same worrying creepy factor I get when I see a "too thin" model.

As Bob says ... not CF? FFS? But I guess that's what gives them the anorexic look but they weight 12oz (340g).

The FOV (128m @ 1000m or 384ft @ 1000 yards or 7.3°) is OK not great but slightly wider than my Swift Eaglet 7x36 (7.1°).

A CF version would be nice.

OTOH it nice to see that some one thinks they can sell 7x28 bins.

[james holdsworth]

There can be no way this design is strong enough to prevent 'bent' tubes in a fall or bump, IMO.

[ceasar]

The sold IF's in the recent past. 6.5 and 9.5 x 32. They weren't this flimsy looking though.

Bob

[Matt_RTH]

Surprised nobody mentioned the focus range. 20m to infinity. That isn't even good for whale watching, let alone pelagics. I can't imagine what else IF would be useful for at this size. Can anyone enlighten me?

[ceasar]

Originally Posted by Matt_RTH

Surprised nobody mentioned the focus range. 20m to infinity. That isn't even good for whale watching, let alone pelagics. I can't imagine what else IF would be useful for at this size. Can anyone enlighten me?

Surveillance.

Bob

[John S.]

Originally Posted by John Russell

http://www.minox.de/index.php?id=4790&L=1

Obviously of limited interest to birders and I would have thought it would have been easy to accommodate a minimum IPD of less than 58 mm.

RRP in Germany is €279.

John

A 20 meter close focus 7x IF binocular? The FOV is limited, IPD not great and eye relief is only ok. Which market are they supposed to appeal to? Binoculars inevitably involve tradeoffs, but it is not clear what offsets those shortcomings.

[John Russell]

Originally Posted by Matt_RTH

Surprised nobody mentioned the focus range. 20m to infinity.

I think that refers to the depth of field when focussed to the hyperfocal distance.

John

[NDhunter]

These do seem to be an odd looking binocular. IF for 20M to infinity, so they should be
ideal for birding. That means they are a good all purpose viewer.

The specs do not say if they are "waterproof", but they are suited for rough conditions at sea!

Jerry

[Kevin Purcell]

Originally Posted by John Russell

I think that refers to the depth of field when focussed to the hyperfocal distance.

The hyperfocal distance is usually a bit further out (thought it depends on accommodation ... perhaps they're specing for a younger user).

I find for a late 40-something that 40m or 50m is hyperfocal for me.

BTW the US Army use a similar sort of bin, the M22, for personal carry optics. I wonder if Minox are planning on trying to provide IF 7x28 bins to the US Army?

For non-birding (or distant birding) use the IF is fine and the range is fine. Though I can't quite see a hunter carrying 7x28. Perhaps surveillance is the idea? It's smaller than the Swift Eaglet 7x36.

The IF offsets the shortcomings if you are not looking for a birding bin. Setting the focus to hyperfocal (or infinity) for the user means the bin is never out of focus. Army, hunters, nautical, safari (charismatic megafauna not birds!) all come to mind. Anything for targets that always appear at 40m or more away i.e. big targets more than 1m in size.

Originally Posted by NDhunter

These do seem to be an odd looking binocular. IF for 20M to infinity, so they should be
ideal for birding. That means they are a good all purpose viewer.

The specs do not say if they are "waterproof", but they are suited for rough conditions at sea!

The spec says they're waterproof to 5 bar then to 5m. I think that's a typo as 5 bar is 5 atmospheres or 50m! Or perhaps 0.5 bar and 5m. That's immersion proof enough. After all IF bins are easy to waterproof ( than CF bins).

[typo]

This one from Fujinon looks rather similar.
http://allbinos.com/1138-Fujinon_KF_...fications.html

It seems to be on sale in Germany.
http://www.idealo.de/preisvergleich/...h-fujinon.html

David

[Kevin Purcell]

Originally Posted by typo

This one from Fujinon looks rather similar.
http://allbinos.com/1138-Fujinon_KF_...fications.html

It seems to be on sale in Germany.
http://www.idealo.de/preisvergleich/...h-fujinon.html

David

Very interesting as Fujinon makes M22 spec 7x50 bins for the US Army. And the M24 7x28. Perhaps this is an civilian M24 (minus reticule and laser filters).

M24 http://www.fujinon.de/en/optical-pro...ash=ba5f98acd2

Different enclosure and slightly different optical parameters.

But the KF7x28H are listed with the other Fujinon military bins. Perhaps for the more style conscious Euro-soldier ("Hans is wearing the every fashionable black special forces kit to match his cure KF7x28H").

I think I got M22 and M24 confused further up the thread.

[brocknroller]

Originally Posted by typo

This one from Fujinon looks rather similar.
http://allbinos.com/1138-Fujinon_KF_...fications.html

It seems to be on sale in Germany.
http://www.idealo.de/preisvergleich/...h-fujinon.html

David

The phenotype is close enough, I think we have grounds for a paternity test.

LGM

[Kevin Purcell]

See the Fujinon thread on the 7x28 (and other bins).

The 7x28 seems to be Chinese-made from Shenzhen Visionking Optical Technology with nice armor and branding.

[John S.]

The IF offsets the shortcomings if you are not looking for a birding bin. Setting the focus to hyperfocal (or infinity) for the user means the bin is never out of focus. Army, hunters, nautical, safari (charismatic megafauna not birds!) all come to mind. Anything for targets that always appear at 40m or more away i.e. big targets more than 1m in size.

I think that overstates the precision of hyperfocal focusing. The objects are more or less in focus depending on their distance from the point of focus. For many people objects focused that way are acceptably sharp. But the image can in many instances be brought into somewhat better focus. Photographers have used hyperfocal distance and depth of field to selectively bring parts of a picture into and out of focus.

[brocknroller]

The other thing that makers of IF EP bins overstate is your ability to "set and forget". Minox's states: "Using the convenient individual focusing of the two eyepieces these are set to the user’s eyes just once. The focus range is from 20 meters to infinity."

IF your focus accommodation is good, you might only need to set the focus once, but if it's not, you will have to reset the diopters again and again for different distances.

This can be age related. When I bought my first sample 6x30 FMTR-SX about 12 years ago, I couldn't "set and forget," I had to refocus at close distances but beyond a certain distance, I no longer had to refocus.

When I bought my second sample, my eyes had changed, with one eye losing more focus accommodation than the other, and both eyes having presbyopia. Now I had to reset the diopters (and each one at different settings) for varying distances.

At a much farther distance than before I could "set and forget," but with 6x, I couldn't see much detail that far away.

So keep in mind "set and forget" doesn't apply to everyone, and even if it worked for you in the past, if you are now "over 40," it may no longer work for you.

Brock

[Kevin Purcell]

Originally Posted by John S.

I think that overstates the precision of hyperfocal focusing. The objects are more or less in focus depending on their distance from the point of focus. For many people objects focused that way are acceptably sharp. But the image can in many instances be brought into somewhat better focus. Photographers have used hyperfocal distance and depth of field to selectively bring parts of a picture into and out of focus.

You forget that humans have accommodation to a greater or lesser extent. The younger you are the better you are. That's what does the "focusing" not the depth of field (which isn't very large compared to the accomodation).

And this is how most hunters, military and the like use them. Focus them at infinity and let the positive accommodation focus closer. It's not really hyperfocal (but its the same sort of idea).

I still don't recommend them for birding but if the target is distant they work fine.

[typo]

With my old eyes, the best 'working range' I could get for my 7x26 and 9x28 was about 30m to infinity. Perhaps not as sharp as I would want for birding (40m +) but good enough for a soccer match or equivalent. I suspect for younger eyes 20m+ might not be too far out.

David

[brocknroller]

Originally Posted by typo

With my old eyes, the best 'working range' I could get for my 7x26 and 9x28 was about 30m to infinity. Perhaps not as sharp as I would want for birding (40m +) but good enough for a soccer match or equivalent. I suspect for younger eyes 20m+ might not be too far out.

David

Funny you should mention soccer, that's what I ended up using the 6x30 Fuji for. The good DOF and 3-D effect were marvelous for that purpose.

But alas, one activity was too limited a use, so they had to go. Now I use the 7x ED2 to watch soccer games, and since they have CF, they can also be used for birding. I could also sit out in the rain and watch soccer like soccer parents, but like birding, I'm a fair weather sports fan, which pretty much leaves out football (American style).

I've said it a million times, so I might as well say it one more time. I wish that Fuji would make a lighter weight line of center focus porros based on the optics in their FMT series (though with added 7x42 and 8x42 configurations).

I guess in an Age dominated by Roofannosaurus Rex, we should just be grateful that some FMT-SXs have survived.

Brock

[typo]

Brock,

I used soccer as an internationally understood reference point. I actually use binos for Rugby.

I've been watching the game for decades and I'm still mystified by the refereeing of scrums rucks and mauls ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rugby_union_gameplay) I naively though taking along binos would help. My 7x26 is excellent for following the play but I can assure you, absolutely no help at all in understanding the refereeing. The question is, would an alpha pair be any better?

David

PS. Brock, you might appreciate some of these:
http://wesclark.com/rrr/quotes.html

[ceasar]

I played 2 seasons (quite a while ago), with no prior experience or instructions, as a right front (Prop-I don't know whether "loose-head" or "tight head"-more likely "hard head") on a small club team in the Northwest US and I never really got to understand the game other than "follow the ball, get to to scrum or line out and get in it!" One referee (there was only one and he was a surgeon) advised me that with the shoulders I had I could more efficiently beat up on my counter part opposite me if I tried some hammer like movements with them which he demonstrated to (and on) me at 1/2 time. I do recall that it was a good idea to keep your elbows high and moving while in the line out. Once in a while I also threw the ball into the line out and then stood back and enjoyed it.
Bob

[John S.]

Originally Posted by Kevin Purcell

You forget that humans have accommodation to a greater or lesser extent. The younger you are the better you are. That's what does the "focusing" not the depth of field (which isn't very large compared to the accomodation).

And this is how most hunters, military and the like use them. Focus them at infinity and let the positive accommodation focus closer. It's not really hyperfocal (but its the same sort of idea).

I still don't recommend them for birding but if the target is distant they work fine.

The results will probably be acceptable to most casual viewers of distant objects. But this is a bird forum....

[Kevin Purcell]

Originally Posted by John S.

The results will probably be acceptable to most casual viewers of distant objects. But this is a bird forum....

We're we discuss all forms of optics and their uses.

But as I said the IF bins at infinity will be as sharp as your regular bins back to the close distance that your eyes can accommodate to. Even with my 49 year old vision I can accommodate infinity to about 20m. Try it with your bins.

It's not something I'd want to do all day: you can feel it in your eyes the closer your get (i.e the more add your eye's lens has to add).

[John S.]

Originally Posted by Kevin Purcell

We're we discuss all forms of optics and their uses.

But as I said the IF bins at infinity will be as sharp as your regular bins back to the close distance that your eyes can accommodate to. Even with my 49 year old vision I can accommodate infinity to about 20m. Try it with your bins.

It's not something I'd want to do all day: you can feel it in your eyes the closer your get (i.e the more add your eye's lens has to add).

And that is one reason I.F. represents a step back from a center focus design. The Minox includes several compromises. Enough that I don't see it as a useful design.