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Old Thursday 17th November 2011, 19:07   #1
Brett Richards
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Probable Baltic Gull in East Yorks

The juvenile gull in the attached pics was on Flamborough Road about half a mile east of Bempton at the corner of Stonepit Lane today for its second day.

Looks pretty good for Baltic Gull to me.

Brett
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Old Thursday 17th November 2011, 19:59   #2
mäkpe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brett Richards View Post
The juvenile gull in the attached pics was on Flamborough Road about half a mile east of Bempton at the corner of Stonepit Lane today for its second day.

Looks pretty good for Baltic Gull to me.

Brett
Looks perfect for fuscus! But, of course, is probably impossible to prove.
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Old Friday 18th November 2011, 12:50   #3
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Ditto.
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Old Friday 18th November 2011, 17:25   #4
Brett Richards
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Possible Baltic Gull

A better photo of the standing bird attached, and a couple of flight shots by Dave Mansell.

What about leg length? Perhaps better for intermedius, but the upperparts are so dark, and it shows no sign of moult.

Can anything useful be deduced from the flight shots?

Brett
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Old Saturday 19th November 2011, 11:24   #5
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Brett..last year (Winter), I observed an adult fuscus type gull (looking slightly smaller, less robust than accompanying LBBG and with amazing primary extensions (presumably a female owing to the exaggerated wings), standing on a concrete apron adjacent to the Thames (Inner London), with Lesser Black-backed Gulls and other assorted gulls Herring, Common, and Black headed one side, with an adult Grtr.Black Backed Gull perhaps 2 metres away, on the other side. Apart from having the ''luxury'' of comparison gulls...the black mantle/scaps and wings of the bird ''mirroring'' the ''black'' of GBBG (no mirrors visible on the primaries) the most obvious structural difference apart from smaller size, was the primary length!...I thought at the time the name ''Pheasant Gull'' would have been more appropriate than Baltic Gull. Having never seen a gull from a structural perspective, looking anything like this. I unwittingly dismissed it as a fuscus (am not really a Laraphile), and to compound it..I did not have my customary camera around my neck. It was only some time after, that I realised the relevance of fuscus, within the context of a UK occurence....In short, In my opinion (for what it's worth) this bird looks like a 2nd calendar year fuscus and possibly a female?

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Old Saturday 19th November 2011, 14:19   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brett Richards View Post
A better photo of the standing bird attached, and a couple of flight shots by Dave Mansell.

What about leg length? Perhaps better for intermedius, but the upperparts are so dark, and it shows no sign of moult.

Can anything useful be deduced from the flight shots?

Brett
It looks as good (perfect!) as in first pics for juvenile Baltic Gull. Dark inner prims, weak bill, long wings, fully juvenile plumage etc.

But as you know, nobody knows how to really exclude intermedius (or heuglini?).
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Old Saturday 19th November 2011, 15:21   #7
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That's a broad tailband for a fuscus fuscus but probably within ssp.

As said by other you'll need a blood sample...
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Old Saturday 19th November 2011, 17:01   #8
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That's a broad tailband for a fuscus fuscus but probably within ssp.

As said by other you'll need a blood sample...
Not too broad IMO. Here's similar one;

http://www.petterihytonen.1g.fi/kuvat/Lokit%2C+Gulls/Selk%E4lokki%2C+Larus+fuscus/5Z6P8653.JPG
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Old Saturday 19th November 2011, 18:00   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenM View Post
Brett..last year (Winter), I observed an adult fuscus type gull (looking slightly smaller, less robust than accompanying LBBG and with amazing primary extensions (presumably a female owing to the exaggerated wings), standing on a concrete apron adjacent to the Thames (Inner London), with Lesser Black-backed Gulls and other assorted gulls Herring, Common, and Black headed one side, with an adult Grtr.Black Backed Gull perhaps 2 metres away, on the other side. Apart from having the ''luxury'' of comparison gulls...the black mantle/scaps and wings of the bird ''mirroring'' the ''black'' of GBBG (no mirrors visible on the primaries) the most obvious structural difference apart from smaller size, was the primary length!...I thought at the time the name ''Pheasant Gull'' would have been more appropriate than Baltic Gull. Having never seen a gull from a structural perspective, looking anything like this. I unwittingly dismissed it as a fuscus (am not really a Laraphile), and to compound it..I did not have my customary camera around my neck. It was only some time after, that I realised the relevance of fuscus, within the context of a UK occurence....In short, In my opinion (for what it's worth) this bird looks like a 2nd calendar year fuscus and possibly a female?

cheers
Hi Ken

I agree that it is probably a female, but it's in full juvenile plumage, therefore 1st cy.

Cheers

Brett

P.S having looked at more images, the leg length seems OK for fuscus.
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Old Saturday 19th November 2011, 23:31   #10
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Hi Ken

I agree that it is probably a female, but it's in full juvenile plumage, therefore 1st cy.

Cheers

Brett

P.S having looked at more images, the leg length seems OK for fuscus.
Quite right!...I had ''cross wired "2nd for 1st'' from the images in Collins.

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Old Tuesday 22nd November 2011, 21:28   #11
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Quote:
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Hi Ken

I agree that it is probably a female, but it's in full juvenile plumage, therefore 1st cy.

Cheers

Brett

P.S having looked at more images, the leg length seems OK for fuscus.
Hi Brett,

I think your bird is a nailed on Baltic Gull. Proving it could be hard, though.

Attached is a photo of a 1st winter intermedius Lesser Black-backed Gull taken by myself in Dartford last Saturday. It carried the ring J1VH and was rung on 28th June near Oslo.

Note the 2nd generation mantle/scapulars.

Cheers,

Andy.
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