[black crow]

Well the first of the two new Vortex I've ordered showed up today and I had a chance to take them into the field for about two hours and then at home compare them to the Eagle Optics SRT 6x32 and a Vortex Raptor 8.5x32.

Overall my impression was not a good one. In fact quite the opposite. They did not pass muster IMO for some very critical reasons. Frankly I was expecting a lot more. Such is life.

Out of the box the Diamondback is a nice looking and nice sized bin. Close to the size of my Ranger but fatter and heavier. In the hand it felt good. It definitely feels sturdy and at that weight and size it was easy to hold steady. It comes with a comfortable fairly wide strap that carries it easily and it come with a zippered hard case that looks nice but nothing useful except for storage. There is a problem when you attach that strap however. They do not hang flat against your chest but at an angle so the aperture end digs into your chest at an angle. Not something that is comfortable even with a heavy sweatshirt on. The front aperture guards are flimsy compared to both my other bins and won't stay tightly in place around the tubes and don't look like they will stay on for long as they were not a good tight fit. The rain guard was good.

The first thing I noticed when looking through them was not the view but an annoying softness that seemed dramatic and abrupt at the edge of a very small sweet spot. With my Rangers one does not usually notice where the sweet spot ends as it drops off so gradually. Not the Diamondback. It was truly annoying and my eyes kept wandering over to it to check if something was wrong. I kept focusing unconsciously trying to correct this but it would not go away and maintain center focus. My Ranger and even the Raptor's are much smoother in transition and also both have a bigger sweet spot with the Ranger winning by a large margin. This in an of itself was a deal breaker for me. There was no comfort in the views.

Another thing was a distinct tunnel effect and a seemingly large amount of reflected light at the edges. As if not well baffled. (if that is the correct term) Everything felt compressed and I was distracted constantly from the view back to the bins themselves as if something were quite wrong with them. It was distinctly unpleasant.

Focusing was difficult and I never felt like I could get them fully focused. Everything seemed just ever so slightly blurred. Yet when I tried to pinpoint it I couldn't. The few times they seemed to be in focus they seemed almost crisp but they never got there. As for the depth of field they were not nearly as good as the Rangers and I was always fiddling with focus in the field.

The second major issue I had was how dark they were. Instead of saying they were not as bright as my other bins I feel it more appropriate to say they were not bright or they were dark. In the field it was harder to penetrate shadows then with all my other bins. It was quite dramatic and surprising in comparison to the other bins. Not good. At this point I was starting to think there was something seriously wrong with these optics.

I did the cereal box test and the dark view was very apparent along with their lack of clarity and very small sweet spot. They did not compare well with either bin in any optical category or test. Very disappointing. Especially since the Raptors were much less expensive at retail price although to be fair they are porros.

The usual selling price for the Diamondback was $189 and for this closeout sale they were $99. At this lowered price I cannot say I thought they were a good value for the money. I much preferred the views in my Nikon Prostaffs at $119. They didn't really come close. And my Monarch 3s easily blew them away. I wouldn't even use these as my backup car bins.

I was not expecting to be so critical of these Vortex and had high hopes for them. Actually I'm a little shocked and wonder if I got a dud pair. At any rate they will be going back to where they came from for a refund.
__________________

[typo]

I know others rather like the Diamondback 7x36, but like you, I was rather disappointed. I didn't last 2hrs, barely a minute I guess. Like looking through fog on a bright day. Presumed it was down to glare, but I didn't attempt to investigate. Better luck with the other pairs.

David

[black crow]

Looking through a fog is not a bad analogy to the experience I was having with them. I'm glad it's not just me feeling that way.

They just make me appreciate all the more the Eagle Rangers. I have a Vortex Fury coming in a day or two and now I'm a little concerned. I'm hoping it is a much better binocular.

[BrightIdea]

Was it foggy out?

Sorry to hear they dont work for you. Box'em up!

[FrankD]

BC,

Thank you for relating your experience. I certainly don't doubt your impressions of the bin but it has left me with a disturbing afterthought.

Two or three years ago we started to see a variety of 7x36 roofs hit the market... Bushnell Excursion EX 7x36, Vortex Diamondback 7x36, Zen Ray ED 2 7x36, Atlas Optics Intrepid 7x36. I am sure there are others but those are the ones I could immediately think of.

I could be mistaken but I think that, out of that group, all of them either have been or will shortly be discontinued. Obviously the 7x36 Diamondback has been discontinued hence the low prices via Cameralandny. I have seen the Bushnells heavily discounted for quite some time and believe they are actually a bit harder to find these days. The Atlas Optics models dropped in price several months ago and I haven't seen that change. The Zens are still there but never made it to the ED3 lineup so one must assume they are on the way out to.

With the general consensus that the 7x30-something format is near ideal as a general purpose binocular and with my current preference for 7x30-something porros I find the possibility of a lack of good, affordable mid-size 7x glass disturbing. I feel as if several manufacturers to a shot at it but came up short. Now they have given up on it.

In my opinion the models should be slightly refined and reintroduced as there is great potential for this configuration...in either a roof or porro format.

Does anybody else share my opinion of this issue?

[typo]

Frank,

Count me in? The Bushnell Elite 7x26 works well for me, but a little more EP and waterproof would be great.

David

[Stet]

Originally Posted by black crow

I have a Vortex Fury coming in a day or two and now I'm a little concerned. I'm hoping it is a much better binocular.

I just recieved my Fury's yesterday and took my first daylight peek through them this morning before breakfast. Let's just say it is great to start your day off with a WOW!!! I am currently whoofing down my breakfast as I write this, so I can get some time with these this morning before my afternoon work meeting.

I almost went with the diamondbacks, as I was looking for a cheap car bin, but decided from what I read on here that the Fury's were worth the extra thirty dollars. If my initial impressions hold up, these may get more use than just a car bin.

Curious to see how they compare to your Eagles. I'm thinking they may be quite similiar, considering the source of both bins.

Will post more on these later......

John

[black crow]

That is good news to my ears. In looking at the size of the Eagles I'm thinking they might be more in line with the Viper's but I haven't looked at them. Maybe I'm mistaken but I thought someone mentioned that the Viper was a slightly upgraded twin of the Ranger SRT.

[black crow]

Was it foggy out?

Sorry to hear they dont work for you. Box'em up!

No it was a bright warm sunny day.

[black crow]

Originally Posted by FrankD

BC,

Thank you for relating your experience. I certainly don't doubt your impressions of the bin but it has left me with a disturbing afterthought.

Two or three years ago we started to see a variety of 7x36 roofs hit the market... Bushnell Excursion EX 7x36, Vortex Diamondback 7x36, Zen Ray ED 2 7x36, Atlas Optics Intrepid 7x36. I am sure there are others but those are the ones I could immediately think of.

I could be mistaken but I think that, out of that group, all of them either have been or will shortly be discontinued. Obviously the 7x36 Diamondback has been discontinued hence the low prices via Cameralandny. I have seen the Bushnells heavily discounted for quite some time and believe they are actually a bit harder to find these days. The Atlas Optics models dropped in price several months ago and I haven't seen that change. The Zens are still there but never made it to the ED3 lineup so one must assume they are on the way out to.

With the general consensus that the 7x30-something format is near ideal as a general purpose binocular and with my current preference for 7x30-something porros I find the possibility of a lack of good, affordable mid-size 7x glass disturbing. I feel as if several manufacturers to a shot at it but came up short. Now they have given up on it.

In my opinion the models should be slightly refined and reintroduced as there is great potential for this configuration...in either a roof or porro format.

Does anybody else share my opinion of this issue?

I certainly do. 7x was a main reason I took a chance on these. It's the perfect balance of power and steadiness of holding for me. As I mentioned this is one reason I fell in love with those 6x is how steady I could hold them. Even though a lower power I seem to see as well or better than with 8x. I'm usually hiking hard and breathing hard when I'm out with bins. Plus the fact my all time favorite compact bin hands down was the 7x21 Nikon Sprint. I got tremendous views with that little giant.

Could it be that Zen Ray will get it right? If so I might be down for a pair.

[BrightIdea]

Originally Posted by black crow

...In looking at the size of the Eagles I'm thinking they might be more in line with the Viper's but I haven't looked at them. Maybe I'm mistaken but I thought someone mentioned that the Viper was a slightly upgraded twin of the Ranger SRT.

Yes, I believe that was the storyline here on BF.

Sorry to hear about your dback issues. I have been very happy w/ my 7x36 excursion, nearly everything about it is terrific for me except for the view, which I'd rank as just solid. (I nabbed them becasue I couldnt afford the viper 6x32)

However no doubt the fury is a step above opiticaly.

It sounds like your Dbacks were a bum set.

[eitanaltman]

having owned both Ranger SRT's and also Viper / Viper HD, I can tell you that the Vipers are a good bit better optically than the Rangers. The 32mm Viper is also much more compact than the Fury. There may be some shared lineage in terms of the "platform" as they appear to have the same size/weight specs of as the 32mm Ranger, but the Vipers are another step up optically (they play in the same category as the Zen ED2/ED3's, narrower FOV but a bit sharper in my experience). The Viper HD's in particular are razor sharp and essentially as good as the Zen ED3's at controlling CA, which the Rangers are only mediocre with.

I did love my Ranger 8x42 SRT's though while I had them, they were my trusty main bin for about 5 years.

[black crow]

Originally Posted by BrightIdea

Was it foggy out?

Sorry to hear they dont work for you. Box'em up!

I just got off the phone with Eagle Optics and they are going to send a call tag for them and send me another pair to try. Great customer service.

I just don't know if I'm going to bother. I'm going to wait for the Fury and see if those fill the bill and if so I'll just pay the return on these Diamondback's.

[Steve C]

Swift sell most of their 7x36 Eaglet binoculars to law enforcement agencies via long standing contracts. That likely is a serious $$$ source for Swift. SO as long as the LEO contracts sat in force the 7x36 Eaglet may well remain.

Marketers long ago picked up the clarion of "You can see more detail with an 8x". This created a new market when the standard sizes were mostly 7 x and 10x. You could get 8x and 6x to be sure, but the desire to see "more detail" is a basic reason why we buy a binocular. It is why as a college student I took as gospel the fast that the 8x40 Swift Nighthawk I bought was the best thing since sliced bread because it had another x worth of magnification, another 5 mm of objective for more light and the fact it had a 500' fov. Everybody took the bait and 7x is nowadays the red haired stepchild. Kind of right in there with porro prism binoculars. It then should be no surprise to find a good 7x35 porro prism binocular can be reallyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy good.

[bh46118]

black crow

As I have mentioned in some recent posts, I recently did a direct A-B comparison between my Minox 10X Porro, the 8X42 Caldera, the Vortex 7X36 Diamondback and 6.5X32 Vortex Fury. Without getting into the minutiae of optics testing, I felt that the Fury was the best overall amongst the roofs. The Diamondback was darker, and softer around the edges for sure. But in the sweet spot they were sharp for me with my glasses on. If you had a foggy view, it makes me think that yours may have had an issue ? If you have Fury's coming, I wouldn't bother with the Diamondback any further.

To me there is something about the view through a good Porro that eludes even the best roof. I think it has to do more with light transmission than anything else. Or maybe not.

Bruce

[ceasar]

Originally Posted by black crow

I just got off the phone with Eagle Optics and they are going to send a call tag for them and send me another pair to try. Great customer service.

I just don't know if I'm going to bother. I'm going to wait for the Fury and see if those fill the bill and if so I'll just pay the return on these Diamondback's.

Black Crow,

I've had one of these since when they first came out and I used it as a Car
Binocular for about 6 months. I had no trouble with it at all. I think yours must be a bad one that was missed in QC. The Focus Wheel is so good on mine it reminds me of my Nikon 8 x 32 LX L. It also, like all Diamondbacks, is very ruggedly built.


One the other hand, like all Diamondbacks (I also own the 8 x 42 and did own the 9 x 36) it isn't the brightest binocular but at the price I paid (under $200.00) price I had no complaint because I really only used it from late morning to early evening. There are always going to be compromises in this price range.

I think that it's Sweet Spot is more than adequate. It has alot of pincushion distortion at the edges, (All my Diamondbacks had it and all had a wide FOV) probably because it was needed for it's wide FOV. I can dial sharpness into the edges if I choose not to center the binocular on an object there. Again, this is another compromise. A flatter field would cost more money.

Veiling glare was a problem when looking into the general direction of the sun, more of course than what I experienced in my Leica 7 x42 Trinovid BN. Again, I wasn't surprised by this and rather expected it. And like all 7X binoculars it has great depth of field especially good for use in wooded conditions. It's less than average brightness never hampered me when looking into the forest canopy near my home.


I also owned a 6.5 x 32 Vortex Fury for a short time but had to return it because it had a faulty diopter mechanism. My recollection is that this binocular was brighter than the Diamondback. It also had a wide FOV and commendable Sweet Spot and I recall it had some Pincushion distortion. All in all it was a very nice binocular, not as sturdily built as the Diamondback though.

Vortex has dropped the 7 x 36 and 9 x 36 Diamondback and, it appears, replaced them with an 8 x 32 and a 10 x 32 which also have wide field's of view.

I really like 7 power binoculars but it has become apparent to me that they
just do not sell in the amounts needed to keep them in the market on a regular basis. It is even a problem in the Alpha market. Swarovski has dumped their 7 x 42 SLC but Nikon has come up with their first Alpha birding and hunting 7 x 42 EDG at a price around $1900.00 to make up for the loss of the Swarovski.

I don't think we will see these 7 x 32/36 binoculars very often in the future.

Oh well!

Bob

[black crow]

Well hopefully I'll have a Fury in hand tomorrow and I'll get some idea if the problem was a dud or that's just the nature of the beast. All I can say is I love these SRTs. I'll return both if they don't at least get in the ball park. Then I'll spring for the Zen Rays.

[lilcrazy2]

BC
Your 6x32 Rangers are quite a bit smaller and lighter than the 6.5x32 Fury's, and have a smaller FOV. The Fury's will be slightly better in some areas than the Rangers optically, but you will have to do a lot of side/side to determine this. Since you seem to have been more than satisfied with the Fury's, I have always been puzzled as to why you felt the need to get the Furys, as they seem kinda redundant to me.

It will be interesting to see which one you keep and why.

[eitanaltman]

he's in full cheap binocular buying frenzy mode, don't talk to him about redundancy the man is on a roll....

[lilcrazy2]

I guess I know the feeling of the feeding frenzy as well as most, as I've had more than my fair share of binos.

[RJM]

Originally Posted by FrankD

...Two or three years ago we started to see a variety of 7x36 roofs hit the market... Bushnell Excursion EX 7x36, Vortex Diamondback 7x36, Zen Ray ED 2 7x36, Atlas Optics Intrepid 7x36. I am sure there are others but those are the ones I could immediately think of.

I could be mistaken but I think that, out of that group, all of them either have been or will shortly be discontinued. ....

It is quite difficult to design a 7x roof with an Ultra Wide AFoV that does not have some serious compromises. On the otherhand, an 8x Ultra Wide is obviously not so difficult as seen by the proliferation of models across brands now. Anywhoo, it makes no sense to choose a 7x if its TFoV is smaller than an 8x FoV for similar apertures.

I would be highly suspect of any 7x roof that claims an AFoV >60°. Chances are either the clear aperture, mag, exit pupil, or TFoV specs are off. Most likely some combination of all of the above. Be even more suspicious of compact roofs less 40mm as prisms wiil be too small for anything much wider than 55° and/or poorly illuminated exit pupils.

[black crow]

Originally Posted by lilcrazy2

BC
Your 6x32 Rangers are quite a bit smaller and lighter than the 6.5x32 Fury's, and have a smaller FOV. The Fury's will be slightly better in some areas than the Rangers optically, but you will have to do a lot of side/side to determine this. Since you seem to have been more than satisfied with the Fury's, I have always been puzzled as to why you felt the need to get the Furys, as they seem kinda redundant to me.

It will be interesting to see which one you keep and why.

I got them for the learning experience. This way I can test them against each other and then sell off the one I don't like. In the mean time I'm learning how to evaluate bins by direct experience. In the end I'll know a lot more and if it costs me a few bucks how is that different than paying for a college course and having to pay tuition and books? For me it's all worth it and a huge amount of fun to boot. Win win sez I.

[black crow]

Originally Posted by eitanaltman

he's in full cheap binocular buying frenzy mode, don't talk to him about redundancy the man is on a roll....

True dat I just want to lay my hands on binocs and look at as many as I can right now. In the end I'll be able to pick a decent bin on my own and I can help my friends and family to boot. I'm having a lot of fun. I see no reason to stop until I'm not. And I'll end up with several pair of very nice bins. Or I'll unload all of them convinced only the best will do. I'm open.

[BrightIdea]

Originally Posted by black crow

True dat

I dont know... The fury's are inexpensive now, however I'd not call them "cheap". IMO anything in the Fury-class has nothing to apologize for unless they were charging $600 for it.

If one can't get it done with Fury level glass, honestly, they're the problem, not the glass!

[black crow]

Originally Posted by BrightIdea

I dont know... The fury's are inexpensive now, however I'd not call them "cheap". IMO anything in the Fury-class has nothing to apologize for unless they were charging $600 for it.

If one can't get it done with Fury level glass, honestly, they're the problem, not the glass!

If that were true then why all the folk here buying multiple bins? And what is getting it done? Does that one bin fit all situations for all people? Are they going to work well for every person?

Myself I don't see any cheap bins being discussed here. Cheap to me is $12 bucks.