[florall]

This is something I've wondered for ages. I've got three dictionaries in the house, no mention of it. Ditto, three bird guides - they use the word but don't define it. It always seems to be used for small birds - is that the correct definition? I would be interested to know the derivation of the word as well. Hope someone can help.

[Adey Baker]

I've seen it defined as both 'Perching Bird' and 'Sparrow-like' (from the scientific family name for Sparrows - Passeridae )

[bristolbirder]

Originally Posted by florall

This is something I've wondered for ages. I've got three dictionaries in the house, no mention of it. Ditto, three bird guides - they use the word but don't define it. It always seems to be used for small birds - is that the correct definition? I would be interested to know the derivation of the word as well. Hope someone can help.

Hi florall. As I understand it, it comes from the Latin word meaning perching bird.

Steve

[Reader]

Originally Posted by bristolbirder

Hi florall. As I understand it, it comes from the Latin word meaning perching bird.

Steve

Ditto

[florall]

Thanks Adey, Steve and Reader. So it applies mainly to birds that perch, in trees, I guess. Would it include something as big as a heron, bird of prey, both of which perch? It's not what I usually think of as a passerine.

[chris3871]

Originally Posted by florall

Thanks Adey, Steve and Reader. So it applies mainly to birds that perch, in trees, I guess. Would it include something as big as a heron, bird of prey, both of which perch? It's not what I usually think of as a passerine.

No. It doesn't refer to all 'perching birds' but is the name of a classified group. It really does pretty much mean birds that are like sparrows, even if that isn't the literal translation. However there are a few surprise birds that aren't really sparrow like but are still included.For example, Swallows and martins are, but Swifts aren't.

[alcedo.atthis]

"This is something I've wondered for ages. I've got three dictionaries in the house, no mention of it. Ditto, three bird guides - they use the word but don't define it. It always seems to be used for small birds - is that the correct definition? I would be interested to know the derivation of the word as well. Hope someone can help."

Florall, to add to what has already been written,

"Passeres" An order or sub order of birds, including more than half of all known species. It embraces all singing birds (Oscines), togther with many other small perching birds.

"Passerine" Perching birds mostly small and living near to the ground with feet having 4 toes arranged to allow for gripping the perch. Most are song birds.
Of or pertaining to the passeres.

There are also Passerine tribes, who are defined as a race of people of the fruit trees. " The columbine, gallinaceous, and passerine tribes, people of the fruit trees".

Regards

Malky.

[Elizabeth Bigg]

florall - it's time to get a fourth dictionary! I found a definition in the Concise Oxford and in Collins on my compuuter - and also in my favourite dictionary, Chambers in good old fashioned book form.

[Andrew]

The Bird-watcher's Dictionary by Peter Weaver states . . . . A member of the very large order Passeriformes, usually called 'perching birds' (literally 'sparrow-like' birds). Over half the world's birds are passerines and the order Passeriformes is divided into four sub-orders, of which the only one represented in the British Isles is the sub-order Oscines. Those birds which are not placed in the order Passeriformes are called 'non-passerines', while those non-passerines which are most closely related to the passerines are called 'near-passerines', examples of the latter being the swifts (family Apodidae) and the woodpeckers (family Picidae).

[rogerscoth]

In one of my dictionaries, the (W H Smith (UK) edition of the Concise Oxford Dictionary) that I bought 10 years ago, the definition is:-
"any perching bird of the order Passeriformes, having feet with three toes pointing forward and one pointing backwards, including sparrows and most land birds"
Roger

[alanhill]

The definition and description of the order Passeriformes in the Cambridge Encyclopaedia of Ornithology is a very long one - here are a few extracts: "Around 52,000 species, well over half of all birds ... no passerine is a true water bird though the dippers (Cinclidae) come close ... the largest species are the ravens in the family Corvidae and the Australian lyrebirds ... the perching feet have four toes which are unwebbed ... the strong hind toe, a key to the order's perching ability, is never reversible ... Additional passerine features are nine or ten primary feathers and distinctive sperm ... Virtually all the passerines of North America and Eurasia belong to the sub-order Oscines, also known as the song birds ... the songs are produduced by five to eight syrinx muscles ... most ornithologists consider that the Oscines remain among the more rapidly evolving [of bird species], for that reason they can be thought of as the most advanced, which is also the reason they are customarily placed at the end of any list of bird orders ... Being small, most passerines are dependent on high energy foods ... The breeding habits of passeines are remarkably uniform. Monogamy is the norm ... most species construct their own cup-shaped or domed nests ... clutch sizes range from one to about fifteen ... Young passerines hatch blind, naked and helpless. One or both parents raise these altricial young to fledging in a period ranging from about 8 to 45 days."

Alan Hill

[alancairns]

I think there must be an extra 0 in there! Surely it should be 5,200?

Alan

[florall]

Originally Posted by Elizabeth Bigg

florall - it's time to get a fourth dictionary! I found a definition in the Concise Oxford and in Collins on my compuuter - and also in my favourite dictionary, Chambers in good old fashioned book form.

I certainly do, Elizabeth.

Thanks to everyone who has helped in this. I've got a much better understanding of it now.

[alanhill]

Apologies to readers and thanks to Alan Cairns for spotting the rogue '0' - it should have read "Around 5,200 species".

Alan Hill