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Old Monday 23rd January 2012, 19:50   #126
jaymoynihan
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Speaking of focus, just thought i would mention that my pair of Pentax Papilio 8.5x21 maintain a focus movement that is both smooth and of consistent speed, from 95 through -5 degrees F.


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Old Monday 23rd January 2012, 19:58   #127
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Same with my Fury. Followed a Dusky Warbler yesterday and temperature was about 30F.
The slightly increased friction was still pleasant as usual and the bin was very adequate when looking through the brush.
The Dusky was everywhere and nowhere, and although we were some 20 birders, we weren't always sure where it was.

//L
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Old Monday 23rd January 2012, 21:12   #128
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But chasing sparrows is very similar (high species diversity + complex physical environment = lots of quick views at varying distance), and is a real possibility at those temps in the midwestern states.

--AP
Agreed. In fact I recently had some fun following a few junco's in a thick patch of young cedars. It was cold but not 0degF cold. The stiff(er) focus on my Yosemite's made it tricky... the looser/smooth focus on the 7x36 excursion fit the bill perfectly.

You point is taken.

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Old Monday 23rd January 2012, 22:26   #129
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Speaking of focus, just thought i would mention that my pair of Pentax Papilio 8.5x21 maintain a focus movement that is both smooth and of consistent speed, from 95 through -5 degrees F.
It is smooth, consistent, and also variable ratio. Awesome instrument.

--AP
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Old Monday 23rd January 2012, 22:54   #130
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Pentax hit a home run with these. I have a ton of fun with them without ever leaving the house. You don't get it till you look at your dogs nose from 18 inches with a full clear image.
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Old Monday 23rd January 2012, 23:45   #131
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Yes.

You sit there chanting the doxology of things beyond your grasp looking at your dogs nose!

Bob

Sorry! Couldn't resist that!

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Old Tuesday 24th January 2012, 00:09   #132
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Yes.

You sit there chanting the doxology of things beyond your grasp looking at your dogs nose!

Bob

Sorry! Couldn't resist that!
I am still impressed with the optics on these Sightrons. The coatings seem very impressive on them also. They work very well for stray light for a $200.00 binocular. It's weird how they can make an 8x32 so small and light when the EDG's are so much heavier. The EDG's must have a more complex eyepiece and of course the field flattener lenses add to the weight. The Sightrons are nice though. I think my focus is loosening up a tad the more I use them. I am keeping them for summer.

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Old Tuesday 24th January 2012, 00:13   #133
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I know that I'm getting looser the more I use them. Had them out for several hours today and came home very loose. I really wanted to find a reason to buy some Rangers in 8x but I just can't justify it. These bins are really good.
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Old Wednesday 25th January 2012, 11:44   #134
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Speaking of focus, just thought i would mention that my pair of Pentax Papilio 8.5x21 maintain a focus movement that is both smooth and of consistent speed, from 95 through -5 degrees F.
I had some Pentax Papilio 8.5x21's for awhile. Although it was cool the way you could focus close I didn't think there optics were that great for birding. Just average. Nikon Prostaff's for example were better. Sent mine back. Of course I am not a big fan of compacts anyway. I tend to think the REAL binoculars start with 32mm's. Here is a review on them I wrote for Amazon after having them for a week.

http://www.amazon.com/review/RIE4H8B...wasThisHelpful

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Old Wednesday 25th January 2012, 12:20   #135
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You sent them back because they weren't good for birding when you'd likely never use a compact for birding anyway? You sent them back because they are a unique close focus bin that is so good at close ups that it adds another whole dimension to binocular use? And because they are sooo poor optically for less than $100?


Good thinking.
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Old Wednesday 25th January 2012, 13:14   #136
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I had some Pentax Papilio 8.5x21's for awhile....
I would agree with you in so far as i would never recommend them to a person who uses binoculars only for birding. I highly value them, but after using them for a few years I can state that there are two flaws for birding use:

1. Dim view, not just because it is 21mm is aperture. Of course for the price, one does not expect high-end coatings.
2. Focus is very shallow.

On the resolution/contrast/CA control end of things, they are playing pretty far above their price point.

What Pentax did, is pretty clever, especially for the price. They combined a compact binocular with essentially the Greenough design of stereo microscope.

But, if my use was only to ID birds, i would have returned them also.
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Old Wednesday 25th January 2012, 17:19   #138
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Exactly my feelings on them.
Actually you called them "junk" on Amazon.
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Old Wednesday 25th January 2012, 23:04   #139
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Actually you called them "junk" on Amazon.
Yes. That's pretty much my opinion on them. I didn't think to much of them. For looking at bugs maybe but not birding. They are built pretty cheap too. They are dim and I didn't think they were that sharp.
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Old Wednesday 25th January 2012, 23:38   #140
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Yes. That's pretty much my opinion on them. I didn't think to much of them. For looking at bugs maybe but not birding. They are built pretty cheap too. They are dim and I didn't think they were that sharp.
Actually, for the price they are built rather well. I thought they were not very sharp also. But i learned it was the shallow focus. Focused correctly, they punch pretty high on the scale. Given I have use of their special characteristics, I ended up learning how to use them.
Today, i brought them in from the car for cleaning. While doing so, near a window, i saw whitish grey flit through the trees behind the garage; got on it and focused...my little local Shrike was hanging out again.
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Old Thursday 26th January 2012, 00:58   #141
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Actually, for the price they are built rather well. I thought they were not very sharp also. But i learned it was the shallow focus. Focused correctly, they punch pretty high on the scale. Given I have use of their special characteristics, I ended up learning how to use them.
Today, i brought them in from the car for cleaning. While doing so, near a window, i saw whitish grey flit through the trees behind the garage; got on it and focused...my little local Shrike was hanging out again.
I agree with the shallow focus. The Nikon Prostaff 8x25's work better for birding and are the same price. Brighter and sharper too. Nikon makes alot of good binoculars don't they. HaHa. The SE, EII's and EDG. Whew. They make some fine binoculars and cameras!
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Old Thursday 26th January 2012, 02:41   #142
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So does pentax.
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Old Thursday 26th January 2012, 12:02   #143
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So does pentax.
The Pentax was better than the Papilio though. Brighter too when I compared them side by side.The Papilio didn't impress me even for a compact. CPOS.

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Old Thursday 26th January 2012, 12:07   #144
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It is a Pentax. Anyway the promo on those specifically says it's designed for butterfly or museum. Named for the Latin word for butterfly, PENTAX Papilio 8.5x21 binoculars are the perfect choice for insect observation in the field and in museums and galleries.

Not birdwatching. Nothing I've ever seen does a better job on close focus than those and that makes them unique and not junk. I'd be loathe to give mine up. I can't wait for summer insect bloom and watching bees and butterfly's in the flowers. One of the very last pairs I'd ever give up.

Out of 59 ratings they got 51 five star, 7 four star, and 1 one star rating. Guess who give them one star Dennis? That person did not rate them based on their intended use but rather on some misinformation he had gathered on those being particularly good birding glasses. What a hoot!
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Old Thursday 26th January 2012, 15:19   #145
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I can't wait for summer insect bloom and watching bees and butterfly's in the flowers.
Sigh. Just a couple more months here

Yes, for those of us who suffer from chronic curiousity they are a definite must have.

While my new Monovid shares aspects with the Papilio, and optically out-classes it also, the Papilio's easy-binocular view is unique.

There are two binoculars that i have a back-up of the same model, new, but stored, just-in-case. One is the Nikon 8x32 SE. The other is the 8.5x Papilio.
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Old Thursday 26th January 2012, 15:24   #146
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I use the 6.5x I like the wider fov but might try your's sometime. They will likely be my most used bins in spring and summer. I plan on putting them on my belt and having the 8x32 around my neck and then having a full day afield prepared for almost anything.
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Old Thursday 26th January 2012, 23:36   #147
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the EO Ranger and Vortex Fury both focus down to 3ft so do you really need the Papilio?
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Old Friday 27th January 2012, 00:05   #148
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the EO Ranger and Vortex Fury both focus down to 3ft so do you really need the Papilio?
That's quite good.

The Papilio 8.5x has a close focus of 1/2 that, 18 inches. And, due to the optical design, it is at 10x at closest focus (figured out by EDZ over at Cloudy Nights), and there is a single, unified image from both barrels. So yes, for my purposes, i do need that.
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Old Friday 27th January 2012, 00:11   #149
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It's that unified image that makes all the difference.

It's a whole different experience than looking through my Rangers or Fury's and many won't get it until they experience it.
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Old Friday 27th January 2012, 01:17   #150
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It is a Pentax. Anyway the promo on those specifically says it's designed for butterfly or museum. Named for the Latin word for butterfly, PENTAX Papilio 8.5x21 binoculars are the perfect choice for insect observation in the field and in museums and galleries.

Not birdwatching. Nothing I've ever seen does a better job on close focus than those and that makes them unique and not junk. I'd be loathe to give mine up. I can't wait for summer insect bloom and watching bees and butterfly's in the flowers. One of the very last pairs I'd ever give up.

Out of 59 ratings they got 51 five star, 7 four star, and 1 one star rating. Guess who give them one star Dennis? That person did not rate them based on their intended use but rather on some misinformation he had gathered on those being particularly good birding glasses. What a hoot!
I tried them on some bugs and the overall quality did not impress me. I am glad you like them but it is not going to change my opinion. Everybody has a different opinion. I think they are a CPOS. I think alot of the people that rated them never had a really good binocular to compare them with. Most of the people have probably never spent more than $100.00 on binoculars. They were very dim and they had a very shallow focus. I looked at some birds with them and I went UGH! They went back to Amazon the next day.

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