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Gull sp Cyprus (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter SJC
- Start date
Armin Kreusel
Well-known member
JANJ
Well-known member
At the end of the day SJC it could be what we call 'eastern cachinnans' due to more black in the outer primaries. However, barabensis is imo not far away. The similarities between these two, we might perhaps even include other posibilities from further east, is not to be underestimated. Standing, it looks very cachinnans, seemingly darker than usual.
On the wing (pitty there´s no shot of the underwing), the lack of obvious tongues, pattern of p10 and lack of mirror on p9 cast serious doubts over it being cachinnans (including the so called eastern cachinnans i think).
For barabensis - there´s not an emediate problem. However, on standing bird ther´s perhaps to little black on the outer closed wing - the part under the base of the tertials.
Any more pic?
Very good pic as usual SJC!
JanJ
On the wing (pitty there´s no shot of the underwing), the lack of obvious tongues, pattern of p10 and lack of mirror on p9 cast serious doubts over it being cachinnans (including the so called eastern cachinnans i think).
For barabensis - there´s not an emediate problem. However, on standing bird ther´s perhaps to little black on the outer closed wing - the part under the base of the tertials.
Any more pic?
Very good pic as usual SJC!
JanJ
lou salomon
the birdonist
i'd expect more black in a pure barabensis too as well as i can agree that it fits the so called "eastern cachinnans" type. recent research however suggests these might be hybrids (cach x bara).
SJC
Well-known member
Thanks guys!
What attracted my attention (except for the fact that it was the only Caspian type Gull in a group of Armenian and a couple of Yellow-legged) was it's dark back (similar in shade to nearby Armenians), yellow legs (not as bright as Armenian) but usually the Caspian I see over here have pinkish grey legs and the amount of black on the wing. With that structure, bill shape and amount of white on the p10 I thought probably a Caspian but I thought I'd try my luck anyway! Here are two more photos, showing the underwing at rest.
What attracted my attention (except for the fact that it was the only Caspian type Gull in a group of Armenian and a couple of Yellow-legged) was it's dark back (similar in shade to nearby Armenians), yellow legs (not as bright as Armenian) but usually the Caspian I see over here have pinkish grey legs and the amount of black on the wing. With that structure, bill shape and amount of white on the p10 I thought probably a Caspian but I thought I'd try my luck anyway! Here are two more photos, showing the underwing at rest.
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lou salomon
the birdonist
now even more it looks like a hybrid: either cachinnans x barabensis or cachinnans x heuglini.
lou salomon
the birdonist
with that dark mantle it surely is not a pure cachinnans!
Cristian Mihai
Cristian Mihai
I agree that the color of the back looks dark for a Caspian Gull.
lou salomon
the birdonist
i think the bird is well within variation of heuglin's gull..
SJC
Well-known member
With that amount of white on the P10 Lou? I have to say the jizz was nothing like a Heuglin's Gull. The ones I see here (at least the ones I can identify!) have a long neck, round head and pretty chunky bill. They also tend to stand pretty upright and usually have a pale eye. This bird was crying out cachinnans of some sort of other, hence why I was hoping it was a barabensis (which I've never seen here).
lou salomon
the birdonist
i agree that the large p10 mirror immediately leads us away from heuglini but since all large gulls are variable, could this just be the extreme end of it? i think i have seen a heuglini pic with an almost all white p10 tip somewhere. and as a female type it could well look less chunky. a minority of heuglin's have dark peppered irides. more problematic for pure heuglini would be the long p10 tongue. so, a hybrid heuglini x cachinnans or heuglini x barabensis or barabensis x cachinnans is most likely i guess. we won't know it o
