Yellow legged or Caspian gull ? (1 Viewer)

Hi everyone,

This photos is from Samsun-Turkey at 05.01.2011. What do you think about species?

All look good for Yellow-legged Gull

Yellow legged gull have a big white point in p4 and p5?

sorry about this subject , I didn't see your comments. thanks for your answer. Can you answer my questions?

http://www.birdforum.net/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=299347
http://www.birdforum.net/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=229889

Thank you cristian.

See also: http://gull-research.org/ylgadsubad/adjan/06cyjan.htm

hi all,

if it was so easy, cristian...

talking about the first bird, an adult: mirrors would be absolut in line with michahellis. but then we get a complete black subterminal band on p4 and a strong black bill mark, both are not at all common in adult YLG. the bill mark might be ok for michahellis but the large amount of black in primaries is something more commonly found in either armenian or steppe gull. now - it is neither a pure armenian nor a classic barabensis, mirrors are too large. an intergrade michahellis x armenicus like they are found in central turkey (not van lake but the more western steppe lakes) could be the explanation for this odd combination. or a 4th cycle michahellis? no immature signs except the bill mark and p4 mark - a bit too much speculation. and bill looks a bit too slim for a typical mich. it might even be cachinnans x barabensis....with this pic alone it will be hard to prove a definite ID.

the second pic : both birds don't look like classic YLGs. the adult type has very long wings and shortish legs. but it looks as if it also has a large p10 mirror (just a faint subterminal mark on outer web) and a large p9 mirror - better for female type michahellis than barabensis. the other bird, a 2nd cycle (3cy) has a dark eye, upright posture, a high breast bend and pinkish legs, but the immature coverts have a contrasting pattern. i think this is not a michahellis but an eastern cachinnans or cachinnans x barabensis or - michahellis x armenicus? that rounded head shape reminds of the latter...

for the last bird i favour a cachinnans: the upperwing tongues are not visible in such a flight pic but the underwing p10 tongue on the far wing is long. too long to belong to a michahellis. black bill mark is a supporting feature -adult cachinnans is more likely to show a dark mark in winter than michahellis.

cheers

At a second look the last bird could be a Caspian (as Lou wrote), but I'm not 100% sure about this...

I 've had a question mark in my mind about these birds. Need to work harder to define. Thank you for your help.

tsingy, maybe you can tell us how common yellow-legged gulls are in your area. they should be scarce but stragglers are found around the whole black sea coasts. samsun is out of their breeding range though as far as we know. but wintering caspian gulls should be common and the eventual armenian (though north of their breeding range) and steppe gull (barabensis) should be present as a passage migrant.

Hi lou,

Fist of all , I'm sorry for my English is bad.

Yellow-legged gull is quite a common species in our country. I have the opportunity to see all along the coastline and the lakes of our country. Caspian Gull seen in winter along the northern coast. Bird watchers can not be identified by the best.Observers need to develop themselves in gull identification in Turkey. This is why record numbers in the Caspian gull will be low.There are a small number of Armenian area. Steppe gull migration is hard to describe, although the possibility of passing the time I do not think was taken in recording. I am not ornithologist , I am an amateur birdwatchers.These are my own observations, I can transfer information to you.

thanks very much, tsingy, that's alot of information. caspian and yellow-legged weren't separated for decades here too, in many countries some 10 years ago people still were talking about the multiple subspecies of herring gull.

Tsingy said:

Hi lou,

Fist of all , I'm sorry for my English is bad.

Yellow-legged gull is quite a common species in our country. I have the opportunity to see all along the coastline and the lakes of our country. Caspian Gull seen in winter along the northern coast. Bird watchers can not be identified by the best.Observers need to develop themselves in gull identification in Turkey. This is why record numbers in the Caspian gull will be low.There are a small number of Armenian area. Steppe gull migration is hard to describe, although the possibility of passing the time I do not think was taken in recording. I am not ornithologist , I am an amateur birdwatchers.These are my own observations, I can transfer information to you.

Click to expand...

Hi,

Please keep taking photos of gulls as it's great to see images from this region.

Please post them here:

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=100197&page=90

Cheers, Andy.