[Ingo]

Hi,

I saw this snipe in Beidaihe, China, last week. I was at a loss at identification (Pintail should be more compact with much shorter tail, structure and plumage don't look right for Common, and Swinhoe's usually prefers drier habitat) but thanks to Neil Davidson from Kyoto, I got myself convinced that it's very likely a Swinhoe's. Still, I'm willing to learn and any opinion on the bird is appreciated.

Cheers,
Ingo Waschkies
Nice (France)

[CJW]

Hello Ingo and welcome to Birdforum from all the Moderators and Admin. Staff.
For what it's worth, I don't see anything in this bird as being different to a Common Snipe.

[Ingo]

Hi,

what I think is untypical for Common:

the bill is not very long, and although there's enough overlap with Common, this one has a very large base, so that the bill looks even shorter and is a bit conic. A typical bill of Common should be more parallel sided (which gives the impression that it is relatively longer even in a short-billed individual).
Then there's the square head with the big central eye, typical for Swinhoe's.

ID on plumage alone isn't very reliable, but there are some unusual features for a Common, in general this bird doesn't look contrasting enough for a typical Common.
The following is a remark from Neil:
"the scapulars for example, in Common I think the outer fringe is broadly but taperingly creamy ie much broader proximally and with only a slight amount at the tip on the inner web. On this bird the outer fringe looks even in width throughout it's length. Some other plumage features are also rather unusual for Common. The overal uniformity of tone suggests Swinhoe's, the orange tail patch is just about the brightest feature on the bird, typical of spring Swinhoe's" (but beware that this photo is taken in August).

I don't know if that's sufficent to completely exclude Common Snipe though.

Cheers,
Ingo

[CJW]

Originally Posted by Ingo

Hi,

what I think is untypical for Common:

the bill is not very long, and although there's enough overlap with Common, this one has a very large base, so that the bill looks even shorter and is a bit conic. A typical bill of Common should be more parallel sided (which gives the impression that it is relatively longer even in a short-billed individual).
Then there's the square head with the big central eye, typical for Swinhoe's.

ID on plumage alone isn't very reliable, but there are some unusual features for a Common, in general this bird doesn't look contrasting enough for a typical Common.
The following is a remark from Neil:
"the scapulars for example, in Common I think the outer fringe is broadly but taperingly creamy ie much broader proximally and with only a slight amount at the tip on the inner web. On this bird the outer fringe looks even in width throughout it's length. Some other plumage features are also rather unusual for Common. The overal uniformity of tone suggests Swinhoe's, the orange tail patch is just about the brightest feature on the bird, typical of spring Swinhoe's" (but beware that this photo is taken in August).

I don't know if that's sufficent to completely exclude Common Snipe though.

Cheers,
Ingo

Sorry Ingo, I just don't see it. Ofcourse, judging a bird's structure from a photograph is even more fraught with danger than judging it's plumage details. This bird still says "Common Snipe" to me.

[Ingo]

I added a photo of what I imagine a Common Snipe (taken in Switzerland in spring). Just compare size of eye, head shape, base of bill, bill shape. Of course you're right about judging this from a photo being difficult, but when seeing the bird walking around, it did look extremely odd for a Common Snipe mainly for these reasons (though I don't claim that I know all variation of Common Snipe).

Cheers,
Ingo

[Sumit]

Hi Ingo,
I am not going to try and identify your bird. It may well be either. But, I see a lot of Swinhoe's and Common in my area in winter and identify them without fail. This apparent contradiction is easy to explain. The birds are completely different in behaviour. The Swinhoe's is a nimble footed and extremely energetic (almost mouse-like) bird which prefers dry surfaces close to water, like large floating mats. The Common by comparison is almost lethargic and prefers a muddy habitat on the edge of water. I have never seen Common and Swinhoe's in the same habitat, although they may be only a kilometer away. The easiest way to distinguish them, of course, is in flight when the underwing pattern differences are striking. I have a few images of the Swinhoe's at the OBI Gallery:

http://www.orientalbirdimages.org/se...Family_ID=&p=2

if you want additional reference.

Hope that helps in some way.

Cheers!
Sumit