Join for FREE
It only takes a minute!

Welcome to BirdForum.
BirdForum is the net's largest birding community, dedicated to wild birds and birding, and is absolutely FREE! You are most welcome to register for an account, which allows you to take part in lively discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 2 votes, 5.00 average.
Old Wednesday 30th May 2012, 00:42   #1
JRK_75
Registered User

 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Buffalo
Posts: 4
Going from 10x50 to 8x42 or 10x42??

Hi,

Im new to the thread, I consider myself a mid experince birder. My old pair of binos just broke and I've been researching new pairs to buy. My old pair of binos, where Eddie Bauers 10x50. Ive narrowed my search down to the Nikon Monarch 5's (I have a spending cap of $300.00).

Now I realize that this will be a huge upgrade in quality but I nervous the jump from 10x50 to 8x42 may be too noticable (in a negative way). Ive been reading this forum, along with others that seem to say 8x is the way to go, but since Ive been using 10x50s for the last 5 years this may not exactly true to my cirumstance. Any thoughts??

Also Im not sure about the 10x42's and sacrificing the pupil exit.

I like the idea of a brighter and obviously clearer image.

Any other brands that may suit me better is also much appreciated.

Thanks
JRK_75 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 30th May 2012, 00:50   #2
ceasar
Registered User

 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: NE Pennsylvania
Posts: 7,703
Were your Eddie Bauer binoculars porro prism or roof prism?

Bob
ceasar is offline  
Reply With Quote
BF Supporter 2010
Click here to Support BirdForum
Old Wednesday 30th May 2012, 05:08   #3
ronh
Registered User

 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Los Alamos, NM
Posts: 1,779
I have nice 8x42 and 10x50, and there's no one answer for everybody. The 8x42's great advantage is not what detail it will show, but that it's FAST. Viewing small quick close birds is much easier with it. That said, I'm an optics power freak, and ususally take the 10x50. I may miss one close ID, and get one distant that my wife can't get with an 8x.

But I am way off the mainstream. Most birders I run into have 32mms, or even compacts.
Ron
ronh is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 30th May 2012, 08:31   #4
etudiant
Registered User

 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New York
Posts: 2,257
I'm not sure that there will be a 'huge upgrade in quality', the old Eddie Bauer enterprise generally sold good stuff.
The gain of dropping down to an 8x42 is the glass is more compact and lighter, plus the FoV may be wider. Brightness may be a bit better, but it would be surprising to have a big jump unless your old glass had issues.
You might consider the much cheaper ($175US) Nikon 10x50 Action Extreme, a waterproof porro with excellent eye relief, a desirable feature if you are wearing glasses.
etudiant is offline  
Reply With Quote
BF Supporter 2011 2012
Click here to Support BirdForum
Old Wednesday 30th May 2012, 10:16   #5
JRK_75
Registered User

 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Buffalo
Posts: 4
The Eddie's were porro.

There were a couple time using the Eddie's that I thought the images were kind of dark while looking through them.

Thanks, everyone. I plan on going to some local sports stores and test some binos.

Are there decent 10x50 binos out there for between 200-300 dollars? Or would I be sacrificing quality for that magnification and price range? I would like to keep the exit pupil at least 5 or higher. Thats why I'm looking at 8x42 or 10x50.

Thanks again.
JRK_75 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 30th May 2012, 10:23   #6
JRK_75
Registered User

 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Buffalo
Posts: 4
etudiant, perhaps you are right. I believe my dad said he paid $80 for the Eddie's so I was just assuming investing around $300 would be a 'huge upgrade.' At least I would hope so...lol.
JRK_75 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 30th May 2012, 14:41   #7
ceasar
Registered User

 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: NE Pennsylvania
Posts: 7,703
Hi JRK_75,

I have a good friend who doesn't believe in changing binoculars often. He used a 10 x 50 porro for years and years and then decided it was time to change. This happened about 5 years ago. Although he is redundantly rich he loves to get a bargain so we discussed what binocular he should get and what would be the best bargain. He could probably purchase a top alpha with his pocket change. He recently took 3 generations of his family on a tour of Europe.

He finally decided on a Nikon 10 x 42 Monarch and he is totally pleased with it and with the money he saved finding one at a good price after an internet search. I recently mentioned to him that they have been upgraded since then but he wasn't interested in getting a new one.

So, I don't think you will go wrong in getting current versions of the 8 x 42 and 10 x 42 Monarchs. Although I would recommend the lesser priced Monarch 10 x 42 Pro Staff 7 ATB because it has a wider field of view.

Bob

Last edited by ceasar : Wednesday 30th May 2012 at 22:45.
ceasar is offline  
Reply With Quote
BF Supporter 2010
Click here to Support BirdForum
Old Wednesday 30th May 2012, 21:11   #8
JRK_75
Registered User

 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Buffalo
Posts: 4
Thanks a lot bob. Maybe your friend could become my friend...lol. I will check out those Pro Staffs as well. I think one of those nikon models will be a nice upgrade and should last me for some time, and I will eventually work my up to top tier quality.
JRK_75 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 6th June 2012, 21:04   #9
mikefreiberg
Registered User
 
mikefreiberg's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Colorado
Posts: 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRK_75 View Post
Thanks a lot bob. Maybe your friend could become my friend...lol. I will check out those Pro Staffs as well. I think one of those nikon models will be a nice upgrade and should last me for some time, and I will eventually work my up to top tier quality.
I can definitely understand the reluctancy to change. However, for me, when I have moved up in quality in the past the resolution and color enhancement has usually taken over my initial negative views. Like anything, there is always an adjustment period, but the Monarch 5 is a stellar binocular. The Prostaff 7 is a good binocular in it's price point, but I consider the Monarch 5 to be SUPERB at it's price point. Especially now, with the dielectric coated prisms making the image far brighter. Let me know if I can answer any questions for you and best of luck with your purchase.

All the best,
Mike Freiberg
Nikon Birding Market Specialist
mikefreiberg is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 6th June 2012, 22:11   #10
David Ash
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Beckenham
Posts: 1
Hello - for 30 years I had always used 10 x 40's. However, I made the jump to 8 x 42's (very anxiously) a couple of years ago.

It was definitely the right move for me, to get a lighter pair (in weight), a better field of view, and a brighter image.

I kept my previous pair of 'nockies' for 20 years, and reckon that the Leica's I bought will see me out (!) - so whilst their cost is pretty extortionate, they add to my birding experience every time they are used.

Good luck & happy shopping!
David Ash is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 6th June 2012, 23:28   #11
Weekend Birder
Registered User
 
Weekend Birder's Avatar

 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: St.Helens, Merseyside, UK
Posts: 336
I recently changed from 8x32 to 10x42.

I don't mind the smaller FOV and I'm loving the extra magnification, as much of my birding is done at quite a distance.

I do miss how compact the 8x32's were, but I don't think I'll be going back to 8x.
Weekend Birder is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 7th June 2012, 01:39   #12
brocknroller
confessed porromaniac

 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Borscht Belt
Posts: 4,241
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikefreiberg View Post
I can definitely understand the reluctancy to change. However, for me, when I have moved up in quality in the past the resolution and color enhancement has usually taken over my initial negative views. Like anything, there is always an adjustment period, but the Monarch 5 is a stellar binocular. The Prostaff 7 is a good binocular in it's price point, but I consider the Monarch 5 to be SUPERB at it's price point. Especially now, with the dielectric coated prisms making the image far brighter. Let me know if I can answer any questions for you and best of luck with your purchase.

All the best,
Mike Freiberg
Nikon Birding Market Specialist
Mike,

The new Monarch 7 should be even more superb with its 8* FOV and ED glass, but what is the price point going to be?

No info on pricing, but the specs and description can be found on this European Nikon Website. The bin is supposed to be released this month.

http://www.europe-nikon.com/en_GB/pr...monarch-7-8x42

Brock
__________________
Ringo in top form during interview (after George Harrison speaks):

Ringo interviewed
brocknroller is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 7th June 2012, 02:25   #13
stereotruckdriver
Registered User
 
stereotruckdriver's Avatar

 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Oregon Coast
Posts: 1,359
Quote:
Originally Posted by brocknroller View Post
Mike,

The new Monarch 7 should be even more superb with its 8* FOV and ED glass, but what is the price point going to be?

No info on pricing, but the specs and description can be found on this European Nikon Website. The bin is supposed to be released this month.

http://www.europe-nikon.com/en_GB/pr...monarch-7-8x42

Brock
Does look promising? I'm really curious to know how the edges will be? They have always had a moderate if not slightly narrow fov! Nikon is doing what i thought Pentax should have done with there ed binoculars. Could be really interesting i wonder if this spells the end for the Premiers? Bryce...
stereotruckdriver is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 7th June 2012, 03:07   #14
brocknroller
confessed porromaniac

 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Borscht Belt
Posts: 4,241
Quote:
Originally Posted by stereotruckdriver View Post
Does look promising? I'm really curious to know how the edges will be? They have always had a moderate if not slightly narrow fov! Nikon is doing what i thought Pentax should have done with there ed binoculars. Could be really interesting i wonder if this spells the end for the Premiers? Bryce...
Amen to that. I would not spend $999 on a Pentax ED with the same field of view as a $269 Monarch ATB.

Not only does the Premier have a growing list of competitors with dielectric coatings and/or ED glass mooreorless in the same price segment - Conquest HD, new Trinovid, Meopta HD (the 10x42 for now), Vortex Razor ED, Pentax ED, Alpin Rainier HD - but now it also has a bin with those features kicking up from the bottom of its own company with the Monarch 7 ED.

When I first suggested that the Premier needed upgrades, the reaction was unenthusiastic, with one member saying that such upgrades would make it "redundant" because of the EDG, but now that these upgrades will be featured on bins from Nikon at price points both above and below the Premier, I think it's a "game changer".

Brock
__________________
Ringo in top form during interview (after George Harrison speaks):

Ringo interviewed
brocknroller is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 7th June 2012, 06:35   #15
ceasar
Registered User

 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: NE Pennsylvania
Posts: 7,703
Brock,
I wonder how accurate and/or up to date the European Website that you linked above is?

If you click on the "High Grade Light" link you will see that the 10 x 32 HG L is still listed. But here in the USA we know that the equivalent 10 x 32 LX L has been discontinued and none are available-which should mean they are sold out.

I also wonder if this could mean that Nikon will sell all the other HGL/LXLs out and finally discontinue the line possibly replacing it with Monarch 7s; maybe also including 8 x 36 and 10 x 36 Monarch 7s?

Nothing like letting one's imagination run wild! Right!

Bob

Last edited by ceasar : Thursday 7th June 2012 at 06:46.
ceasar is offline  
Reply With Quote
BF Supporter 2010
Click here to Support BirdForum
Old Thursday 7th June 2012, 09:59   #16
Dorian Gray
Registered User

 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Paris
Posts: 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by brocknroller View Post
When I first suggested that the Premier needed upgrades, the reaction was unenthusiastic, with one member saying that such upgrades would make it "redundant" because of the EDG, but now that these upgrades will be featured on bins from Nikon at price points both above and below the Premier, I think it's a "game changer".
Is the EDG not precisely a Premier (HG L) upgraded with ED glass and dielectric coatings? That's how I see it.

The High Grades are what they purport to be. They're built to an entirely different standard or grade than the Monarchs, which are mostly plastic and impractical to service. If Nikon revamped the HG L optics with new glass types and coatings, and maintained the high construction quality, and priced the result at 2012 levels, we'd end up with another EDG.

If they maintained the narrowish field of view of the 42 mm HG Ls and somehow kept the price down, to differentiate them somewhat from the EDG models, they'd still have trouble with Chinese competitors. The truth is, a wide field is the latest mid-range checkbox feature. In the past we saw flurries of interest in good eye relief, dielectric coatings, and ED glass. Now manufacturers are catching the wide-field wave.

Nikon has more binoculars than you can shake a stick at. If anything they need to cut back their range to something focused and approachable, rather than compete with their own EDG, or make something so similar (an upgraded HG L) that only optics geeks could spot the difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ceasar View Post
Brock,
I wonder how accurate and/or up to date the European Website that you linked above is?

If you click on the "High Grade Light" link you will see that the 10 x 32 HG L is still listed. But here in the USA we know that the equivalent 10 x 32 LX L has been discontinued and none are available-which should mean they are sold out.
The 10x32 HG L is still listed in the latest Nikon UK price list PDF (page 32), from May 2012.

(Incidentally, sometime between February 2011 and October 2011, two months for which I have price lists, the three SE models were removed!)

Nikon's numerous and conflicting websites are full of mistakes, but I imagine a bit more care goes into the price lists. In any case, you can still easily purchase a new 10x32 HG L in the UK, albeit at prices that would make the average punter scratch his head. The average punter is not interested in whether a binocular will provide daily service for 20 or 30 years, which is really what you're paying for when choosing an HG L over a Monarch.
Dorian Gray is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 7th June 2012, 21:03   #17
mikefreiberg
Registered User
 
mikefreiberg's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Colorado
Posts: 248
Hey Brock,

I cannot comment on the price point. Sorry! However, I will say you are correct in that they are being introduced in a month!

Cheers,
Mike Freiberg
mikefreiberg is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 8th June 2012, 01:42   #18
brocknroller
confessed porromaniac

 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Borscht Belt
Posts: 4,241
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorian Gray View Post
Is the EDG not precisely a Premier (HG L) upgraded with ED glass and dielectric coatings? That's how I see it.
Dorian,

If you experienced "Rolling Ball" in the full sized Premiers, you would see it differently, literally! Plus, if the EDG is the upgrade to the Premier, then why is the Premier line still extant?

I haven't tried the EDG II, but the EDG I and Premier were very different ergonomically.

The eyecups are different, the "on-the-EP" diopter of the Premier is also different than the hideaway diopter ring on the EDG II, the distortion level is very different, the FOV is different, the coatings are different (Premier/HGL is "warmer"), the Premiers are sharp to the very edge where the image compresses, the EDG isn't sharp to the very edge but the image doesn't compress at the edges due to AMD.

The only thing the same is that they apparently have the same number of EP elements, which to me is a superficial likeness, considering the differences in distortion, FOV, and color balance.

The differences go well beyond prism coatings and ED glass. I think most people trying each model could easily tell them apart. If the person was sensitive to RB, it would be very obvious as soon as he panned with the bin.

Both being Nikons, they probably share some designed parts such as the internal focuser. I can't confirm that, but economically it makes good sense.

Quote:
The High Grades are what they purport to be. They're built to an entirely different standard – or grade – than the Monarchs, which are mostly plastic and impractical to service. If Nikon revamped the HG L optics with new glass types and coatings, and maintained the high construction quality, and priced the result at 2012 levels, we'd end up with another EDG.
I think you're right about the timing, coming a year after the tsunami. But once Nikon has recouped its losses, a Premier ED price will depend largely on how much "padding" Nikon adds.

Consider that the EDG I, with the same optics as the EDG II, sold for a thousand dollars less. The 8x32 EDG I sold for $999; EO is selling the 8x32 EDG II now for $2,299.95!!! That's $300 more than the same model cost last year from the same store.

I think that's Nikon recouping its losses from the tsunami. Once they've done that, they could upgrade the Premier's coatings and glass for a reasonable price increase.

Meopta updated its Meostar with ED glass for only $100 more. Even the upgraded Zeiss Conquest HDs, which are "Made in Germany," are selling for $999. Pentax 8x43 ED, $999. Swaro CL, $929.

Nikon could upgrade the Premier w/out going nuts on the price, at least after they have recouped their losses.

Quote:
If they maintained the narrowish field of view of the 42 mm HG Ls and somehow kept the price down, to differentiate them somewhat from the EDG models, they'd still have trouble with Chinese competitors. The truth is, a wide field is the latest mid-range checkbox feature. In the past we saw flurries of interest in good eye relief, dielectric coatings, and ED glass. Now manufacturers are catching the wide-field wave.
They could redesign the Premier EP (wish they would and put some pincushion in the full sized models like the midsized ones), but that would push up costs, and Nikon was way ahead of the game with long ER. Even now, Leica can't compete with it.

And the only Premier model that is a bit narrowish in regard to FOV is the 8x42. The 8x32 is very good at 7.8*, and the 10x42 is standard at 6* (seemed wider than spec to me when I compared it with the 10x42 SE).

But consider the Minox 8x43 HG APO, with its 7.2* FOV. Cost: $1899. The Swaro CL has a 7* FOV, the Pentax 8x43, 6.3* (now that's too narrow for this price point!).

Here's the big difference with the flurry of WA cheaper ChinBins - the Nikon Premiers are sharp edge to edge and with the SV EL, ZR Prime ED, and Hawke Panorama ED adding field flatteners, it's not a trend that's out of style, but rather the Premiers were way ahead of the pack in that regard and now the trend is "in".

Sure the ZR 7x36 ED2 had a super WF, and it was impressive, but the edges weren't very good. Not terrible considering the WF, but my point is that there's a trade off with making WF bins. If it's not edge performance, then its pincushion. So you can ride the WF ChinBin wave, but only if you don't mind the image getting "wavy" at the edges. For those who do, there's the Premier.

Quote:
Nikon has more binoculars than you can shake a stick at.
Well, I have a big stick. :-) Most of those models are at the lower price points. Nikon only has ONE bin in the mid-tier price point, the Premier.

Quote:
If anything they need to cut back their range to something focused and approachable, rather than compete with their own EDG, or make something so similar (an upgraded HG L) that only optics geeks could spot the difference.
I agree about that approach on the bottom end, there are models that overlap in the Monarch line up, and I suspect the "3" will disappear once the "7" comes out, and so will the "X", but if Nikon were not to offer an updated, competitive product in the mid-tier line, with Swaro, Zeiss, Leica, Meopta, Pentax, Vortex, and others offering bins with dielectric coatings and ED glass in the same price segment, I'm not sure if the Premier would keep selling.

Perhaps the Monarch 7 ED will fill that gap, can't say for certain at this point, but it seems unlikely since they are calling them Monarchs, but if not, and they are priced to compete in the $400-$500 price point, that leaves the Premier to represent Nikon in the $1,000-$1,300 segment, which is filling up with dielectric/ED roofs.

Quote:
The average punter is not interested in whether a binocular will provide daily service for 20 or 30 years, which is really what you're paying for when choosing an HG L over a Monarch.
True, the Premier is not designed for your average "punter" or average hunter for that matter, they buy the Monarchs.

However, my point still stands (though the horse has been nearly beaten into the ground :-), that other companies have upgraded bins in the same price segment as the Premier, and as of now, Nikon does not.

Because of that, there could be consequences for Nikon. I think they need to either "shit or get off the pot" with the Premier line.

Brock
__________________
Ringo in top form during interview (after George Harrison speaks):

Ringo interviewed
brocknroller is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 8th June 2012, 02:55   #19
ceasar
Registered User

 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: NE Pennsylvania
Posts: 7,703
Then too, Nikon might have decided to take a wait and see attitude on these "2nd tier" binoculars to see if they sell enough to make it worthwhile to market a new one.

Bob
ceasar is offline  
Reply With Quote
BF Supporter 2010
Click here to Support BirdForum
Old Friday 8th June 2012, 04:15   #20
brocknroller
confessed porromaniac

 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Borscht Belt
Posts: 4,241
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceasar View Post
Then too, Nikon might have decided to take a wait and see attitude on these "2nd tier" binoculars to see if they sell enough to make it worthwhile to market a new one.

Bob
Bob,

They obviously have, but remember that Nikon led with the HG. At the time of its release, nothing could touch it. Hence, the name "High Grade". Nikon even boasted that the HG was built to be the best binoculars in the world.

Nikon has traditionally been a fiscally conservative company. Given that, I would have expected the dielectric/ED upgrades to the Premier long before it made an EDG to compete with the EL. Particularly surprising was that "rush to market" with the EDG that led to all the "recalls". And I certainly would have expected those upgrades to the Premier before the Monarch.

So it's puzzling to me.

Plus, there have been numerous complaints by users about CA (and some reviewers) in the HGL line, so it wouldn't have just been change for change sake, but something needed in that line.

Upgrading now is just keeping up with the Joneses. Something they might be forced to do if they keep the Premier, because of growing competition in that segment, but better to be first or second than last and grab the lion's share of the market.

Plus now Nikon is trying to compete with the Big Three in the top tier, and I'm not so sure how many people are willing to fork over $2,299 for an 8x32 EDG when the new 8x32 SV EL is selling for $2,099.

Sure, if you've got deep pockets, what's another $200? But it's more a matter of perception. Japanese-made bins have traditionally offered more bang for the buck than the Teutonics.

People expect to get as good quality (or nearly as good) for less money from Japanese-made optics than from higher priced German- and Austrian-made optics. But now you have a role reversal, and I'm not sure how well that's going to sit with consumers.

They can't raise the prices on Chinese-made products if other companies aren't or that would make their cameras and lower priced bins uncompetitive. So they have to pad the prices of Japanese-made products.

They must have been in a quandary over what to do about making up for losses. Japanese car makers increased prices, and American automakers followed suit, simply because they could charge more and still stay competitively priced.

I think Nikon lost its focus there for a while after the EDG I debacle and put out these dueling Monarchs with confusing designations. The Monarch is its best seller, so it makes sense that Nikon would put its hopes on the Monarch 7 ED. If they're good, they will sell a lot more of them then they would Premier EDs.

The Premier will have to take the back burner for now. It's ultimate fate remains uncertain.

Nikon is a diversified company with a long history. I'm confident this will all eventually work itself out.

Brock
__________________
Ringo in top form during interview (after George Harrison speaks):

Ringo interviewed

Last edited by brocknroller : Friday 8th June 2012 at 04:19.
brocknroller is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 8th June 2012, 12:42   #21
newfie ghost
Registered Member

 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: None
Posts: 617
Despite the silver prisims, despite the non Ed glass, the premier is still very nice. In bright light the ca can rear its head, but in low light, they still put a smile on my face.

I see more "image compression" in my EDG 8x32 than my Premier 8x42. I also see more rolling ball in the Edg. Both pale in comparison to my wife's 8.5 sv.

But I agree, for the price the premier "should" have ED glass and dielectric coatings- it sells.

Funny how my 8x32 el doesn't have ED glass but is sharper than my 8x32 Edg. Why?

Look through them side by side and decide for yourself.
newfie ghost is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 8th June 2012, 15:29   #22
Dorian Gray
Registered User

 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Paris
Posts: 108
You make several good points, Brock, not least that EDG binoculars may not sell very well while they're priced north of the SwaroVision options – themselves very expensive.

But if Nikon plans to let EDG prices fall over time, the HG L might be propping up the $1000–$1300 segment only until the EDG gets close to that range. In this scenario, Nikon might see no reason to upgrade the HG L for just a year or two of sales.

Rolling-ball versus pincushion is rarefied stuff. A new binocular (EDG) can replace another (HG L) on the market even if it doesn't have precisely the same distortion characteristics. To my knowledge, only Leica ever tried to broach this topic in their publicity materials, viz.:
"For binocular observation, unlike in photography, this effect is applied quite deliberately to reduce the so-called "globe effect" caused by perspective observation and by swinging the binocular. To the observer, the image created in this manner appears straightened out. […] Observation through a binocular that does not have deliberately implemented judicious distortion is quite unpleasant." [Leica Sports Optics brochure, 2005.]
Nikon never gets as technical as this in binocular brochures. Distortion is hard to explain without using icky terms like tangent-condition. Leica can get away with catch-all phrases such as "deliberately implemented judicious distortion," but Nikon prefers to concentrate on bullet-points that people understand, like edge-to-edge sharpness.

If someone doesn't offer me an SE soon (I have an ad in the Wanted classifieds) I may yet end up with an HG L. The HG L still makes sense to me, despite its chromatic aberration and slightly compromised brightness.
Dorian Gray is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 8th June 2012, 22:41   #23
brocknroller
confessed porromaniac

 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Borscht Belt
Posts: 4,241
Dorian,

If the price of the EDG ever drops close to the $1000–$1300 range, I think we can officially announce that Nikon's foray into the alpha segment was a "complete mission failure".

I think the EDG II will eventually drop back to $2K, and occasionally get discounted to $1,700-$1,800 like they were last year, but I don't think they want to limbo any lower than that.

In order to maintain "alpha status," bins need to be "alpha priced". While it's the "natural order" for Japanese optics to be priced below the Teutonics, they can't be too far below or they are going to be perceived as "second tier," which if you do a dennis translation, means "second class".

If you can't find an 8x32 SE or 8x30 EII (if you don't use eyeglasses with bins, the latest black body EII's are just as good and have a "walk-in" view), then look for an 8x32 EDG I. Closest view you're going to get to the SE in a roof. Hard to find in Europe since they were never released there.

Assuming that you don't want to pay $2,299.99 for an 8x32 EDG II or whatever price they're selling for in Europe, then the 8x32 HGL is your next best bet if you like the "Nikon view".

Unlike the "rarefied" RB in the full sized models, the 8x32 has enough pincushion to keep the ball from rolling away with the birds. There is, however, enough AMD for the super sensitive "rollingballer" to find off putting, but certainly a better balance of AMD and pincushion than the full sized models.

To my eyes, the HG has noticeably more CA than the SE, but only in high contrast situations. During the winter it was glaringly obvious but not so bad during the warmer months except on overcast days.

I would recommend the HG model over the HGL if you can find one. Only an ounce difference in weight, but the color fidelity is better in the originals.

I think the reason Leica was forced to talk about pincushion was that the topic often came up in reviews of its bins, particularly the Trinovid. I remember Stephen Ingraham's review on BVD of the 8x32 "Ultra" (not sure where that name came from, but he's talking about the 8x32 "Trinovid"), saying it had too much field curvature and pincushion, which combined produced "disconcerting" effects at the edges. After using the ZR 7x36 ED2, I knew what he meant.

The advantage the HGL has is its close focus (6 ft. vs. the SE's 10 ft). That might not seem like much difference, but at 10 ft. you will probably see barrel overlap shadows in the image with the SE, with the HGL, you can focus down to 6 ft. with no barrel overlap and w/out field collapse so you maintain a stereoscopic image. The 8x32 HG is excellent for close-in birding and butterflying.

To me, the big difference btwn the 8x32 HG and 8x32 SE is depth perception and 3-D effect. The HG compresses the view ("objects may appear closer than they really are," to coin the warning on my car's side view mirror), while the SE makes the landscape look more natural with a better 3-D effect and separation between objects.

The 8x42 HGL is much better than the 8x32 in regard to depth perception and 3-D effect. If not for the RB, I would have chosen the 8x42 over the 8x32 model because of that, and it also fit my large hands much better.

I'm not sure what your preferences are or what your budget is, but if you are not sensitive to RB, you might consider buying the 8x42 model. Smaller FOV but by no means tunnelesque, and brighter, sharper, and more porro-like image, with a more reasonable, though still fast, 1 turn focuser.

Brock
__________________
Ringo in top form during interview (after George Harrison speaks):

Ringo interviewed

Last edited by brocknroller : Friday 8th June 2012 at 23:11.
brocknroller is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 11th June 2012, 19:50   #24
mikefreiberg
Registered User
 
mikefreiberg's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Colorado
Posts: 248
Hey Brock,

I posted the confirmed retail prices on the Monarch 7 discussion. Sorry to be vague about certain things, but I need to be careful at all times with what is released. Hope you all are well.

Cheers,
Mike Freiberg
mikefreiberg is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 11th June 2012, 20:10   #25
Mr Happy
don't panic

 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Walmington on Sea
Posts: 62
i went from 10x50 to 8x32.

Best thing i ever did. Can wear them all day now without aching
Mr Happy is offline  
Reply With Quote
Advertisement
Reply


Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
swarovision EL 10x42 or EL 10x50 pimpelmees Swarovski 23 Saturday 2nd July 2011 23:44
10x42 or 10x50 Porro? xmeecosmic Binoculars 22 Sunday 11th October 2009 05:37
Ultravid 10x42 or 10x50 Dr. Amnon Duvdevany Leica 13 Monday 27th October 2008 06:29
Ulrtavid 10x42 vs 10x50 brazos Leica 17 Thursday 14th June 2007 17:36
10x42 or 10x50 brazos Binoculars 1 Tuesday 8th May 2007 14:03

{googleads}

Fatbirder's Top 1000 Birding Websites

Search the net with ask.com
Help support BirdForum
Ask.com and get

Page generated in 0.25211811 seconds with 34 queries
All times are GMT. The time now is 06:16.