[Dorian Gray]

From the page David linked to:

"The sophisticated coating Nikon applies to MONARCH 7 goes far beyond conventional coatings. Dielectric Multilayer Prism Coatings, which provide an even, higher light transmittance across the entire visible light spectrum, are applied to all of the lens and prism surfaces that transmit light."

The copywriter is right about one thing: dielectric coatings on all transmitting surfaces are definitely unconventional!

[BruceH]

You would think someone on the engineering side would have to review and sign off on the marketing material before it was published, then again, maybe not. Hopefully Mike F will see this and get it fixed.

There has been some discussion on this thread and I think some other threads comparing the new Monarch 7 to the Bushnell Legend HD. I suggest another good comparision would be to the Bushnell Elite ED. The Elite ED is higher in the Bushnell chain than the Legend HD, yet it is still less expensive than the new Nikon Monarch 7. The Monarch 7 does beat the Elite ED in field of view, at least on paper, but that may not be true out in the field. I have used the Elite ED and it offers an excellent view.

[ceasar]

[quote=David Swain;2484117]7/7/12: now live on the US website.

http://www.nikonbirding.com/products...lars/monarch-7[/QUOTE

OK! When are they going to come out with an 8 x 32 Monarch 7? Here it is almost 24 hours after they officially announced their 8 x 42s and 10 x 42s.

Where are the 32s?

What are they waiting for? The Euros are always ahead of them!

It won't be long now until China passes them by, you can bet on it!

Can't Nikon get ANYTHING right?

[brocknroller]

That was quite a gaff, makes me wonder if Nikon outsources its Website building and maintenance to an ad agency. A Nikon PR person would have to know that dielectric coatings are only applied to roof prisms.

As far as Bob's comment, there never was an 8x32 Monarch, only 8x36. I'm fine with that configuration. 4-6mm more aperture, larger exit pupil, and more 'real estate'. Of course, it would have to be better quality than their current 8x36 Monarchs if they make a "7" version.

The Euros aren't ahead of Nikon in the mid-tier segment. Nikon has had the 8x32 and, until recently, the 10x32 HG for over a decade, as you know, and maybe that was your point.

There are no Conquest 8x/10x32 HDs or Trinovid 8x/10x32 HD. Only Swaro came out with mid-tier 8x30/10x30 CLs and Meopta has the 8x32 Meostar.

I'd like to see the 8x36 and 10x36 replace the 8x32/10x32 configurations as standards. Yeah, they aren't as small, but if you want a compact bin, buy a compact.

They are still smaller and lighter than 8x42s, and most importantly, the 10x version would be more functional with a 3.6 mm exit pupil.

<B>

[ehrodz]

Originally Posted by BruceH

You would think someone on the engineering side would have to review and sign off on the marketing material before it was published, then again, maybe not. Hopefully Mike F will see this and get it fixed.

There has been some discussion on this thread and I think some other threads comparing the new Monarch 7 to the Bushnell Legend HD. I suggest another good comparision would be to the Bushnell Elite ED. The Elite ED is higher in the Bushnell chain than the Legend HD, yet it is still less expensive than the new Nikon Monarch 7. The Monarch 7 does beat the Elite ED in field of view, at least on paper, but that may not be true out in the field. I have used the Elite ED and it offers an excellent view.

A comparison of the Monarch 7 with the new Zen Ray Prime H D would also be of interest, at least to me.

[mayoayo]

Originally Posted by brocknroller

That was quite a gaff, makes me wonder if Nikon outsources its Website building and maintenance to an ad agency. A Nikon PR person would have to know that dielectric coatings
are only applied to roof prisms.


<B>

Based on this explanation (from wikipedia,Optical Coating) I came to understand that the term dielectric refers to the technique used to apply the coating..the procedure allows to control the thickness, transmitivity and reflectivity of the coating to create Anti Reflections OR Mirrored surfaces,...am I wrong?
If I am right ,then Nikon are correct in the way they explain the type of coatings used in this binocular various optical surfaces..The monarch uses Dielectric AR and Dielectric Prism mirrors




"The other major type of optical coating is the dielectric coating (i.e. using materials with a different refractive index to the substrate). These are constructed from thin layers of materials such as magnesium fluoride, calcium fluoride, and various metal oxides, which are deposited onto the optical substrate. By careful choice of the exact composition, thickness, and number of these layers, it is possible to tailor the reflectivity and transmitivity of the coating to produce almost any desired characteristic. Reflection coefficients of surfaces can be reduced to less than 0.2%, producing an antireflection (AR) coating. Conversely, the reflectivity can be increased to greater than 99.99%, producing a high-reflector (HR) coating. The level of reflectivity can also be tuned to any particular value, for instance to produce a mirror that reflects 90% and transmits 10% of the light that falls on it, over some range of wavelengths. Such mirrors are often used as beamsplitters, and as output couplers in lasers. Alternatively, the coating can be designed such that the mirror reflects light only in a narrow band of wavelengths, producing an optical filter.
The versatility of dielectric coatings leads to their use in many scientific optical instruments (such as lasers, optical microscopes, refracting telescopes, and interferometers) as well as consumer devices such as binoculars, spectacles, and photographic lenses.
Dielectric layers are sometimes applied over top of metal films,........"

[Chosun Juan]

Originally Posted by mayoayo

Based on this explanation (from wikipedia,Optical Coating) I came to understand that the term dielectric refers to the technique used to apply the coating..the procedure allows to control the thickness, transmitivity and reflectivity of the coating to create Anti Reflections OR Mirrored surfaces,...am I wrong?
If I am right ,then Nikon are correct in the way they explain the type of coatings used in this binocular various optical surfaces..The monarch uses Dielectric AR and Dielectric Prism mirrors

Mayoayo,

As I understand it, the term "dielectric" when used in the optical sense (as opposed to the electrical sense), refers to thin layers of different refractive index material, from the substrate. Depending on the design and application, you could end up anywhere from almost total reflection (a mirror) to almost total transmittence (AR coatings). There are several methods of application which vary in terms of energy required and quality of the results delivered, and hence cost.

I have only ever heard of the convention to refer to "dielectric mirrors" (i.e. as in roof prisms) in the "Sport Optics" arena.
I don't think Nikon is "technically" incorrect in its advertisement, but this is the first use outside of "industry norms" that I'm aware of (I hope this is not another Zeiss HT type can of worms!).

Here's the link to the paragraph you quoted: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_coating
Wiki on dielectric mirrors: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dielectric_mirror
and Refractive Index: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refractive_index
and some more info on dielectric coating: http://optical-technologies.info/?ta...ectric-coating

BTW, ehrodz, I would think the natural Zen competitor to the Nikon 7 would be the ED3. The Zen ED3 has a 40 layer dielectric coating, but dielectric coating can range anywhere from 2 layers to (60, I think, with Vortex Razors), to (70, I think, with the Swarovisions). I wonder if we can get clarification of the number of layers used in the Nikon 7 for the prisms, and for the lenses??

I can understand the comparisons to the Bushnell Legend Ultra HD, based on weight and size, but I've never been able to dig up exactly what their "PC-3" coating is - I don't think it's dielectric, as we understand it.
With the Zen ED3's at ~$400, and the Bushnell Legend Ultra HD's just over $200, I can't help thinking that Nikon is bringing these to the market priced too high.


Chosun

[Howard220]

I'm intrigued by this binocular, and notice that it is virtually the same size, with less weight, as Nikon's EDG 8 x 32 and Premier 8 x 32. I just wonder how good it is.

[ceasar]

Pentax has also been mentioning the differences in coatings on their prisms. See the comments on the DCF BC 9 x 32 and DCF BR 9 x 42 here:

http://www.pentaximaging.com/sport-o...ing/binoculars

Both inexpensive binoculars; the former with an additional coating of silver and the latter with an additional coating of something else(?).

Bob

[mikefreiberg]

Originally Posted by BruceH

June 24th .......




June 25th ........




So much for the July 7th launch date!

You are correct! Cabela's was the ONLY retailer to access the binocular before launch. I would assume this is because of the sheer market volume they move. The launch was officially 7/7/12. Cheers!

All the best,
Mike Freiberg
Nikon Birding Market Specialist

[BruceH]

Hey Mike, it is much better for them to show up early rather than months later (i.e. SV 8X32)! Now you need to get after Cabalea's to start stocking the EDG so folks can see what they have been missing.

[FrankD]

After reading this thread these past weeks I am left with one particular thought...why all the fervor over these new Monarch 7s? ED glass at this price point and notably less has been around for several years. The same could be said for dielectric coatings. I would guess one could make the argument that only the Legend Ultra offers them in as compact a package but it does so at about half the price.

So then why the interest? The Nikon name? I certainly have high expectations considering some of the excellent high performance Nikon products that I have owned and do own. It will be interesting though because they obviously can't create a bin that competes directly with the EDG. Yet, there already are several mid priced models that due offer similar performance at all but the edge of the field of view.

As I said it should prove interesting.

[ceasar]

Originally Posted by FrankD

After reading this thread these past weeks I am left with one particular thought...why all the fervor over these new Monarch 7s? ED glass at this price point and notably less has been around for several years. The same could be said for dielectric coatings. I would guess one could make the argument that only the Legend Ultra offers them in as compact a package but it does so at about half the price.

So then why the interest? The Nikon name? I certainly have high expectations considering some of the excellent high performance Nikon products that I have owned and do own. It will be interesting though because they obviously can't create a bin that competes directly with the EDG. Yet, there already are several mid priced models that due offer similar performance at all but the edge of the field of view.

As I said it should prove interesting.

Frank,

There was a recent post in one of the threads here about dielectric coatings.

If my memory is correct there can be different types of them and different levels of them and different numbers of layers of them on the prisms.

There have also been many posts in the past about the differences in "ED" type or "flouride" coatings and the differences in their costs in manufacturing binoculars.

The problems concerning the outer edges of the view seem to be different technologically speaking and require more expensive oculars.

I think with these mid-priced models, all this, along with quality control, plays out in the final costs of the binoculars. Trying to get them to perform as well as the top of the line binoculars while using these short cuts, if you will, with these compromises, seems to be their biggest problem.

Bob

[NDhunter]

Originally Posted by FrankD

After reading this thread these past weeks I am left with one particular thought...why all the fervor over these new Monarch 7s? ED glass at this price point and notably less has been around for several years. The same could be said for dielectric coatings. I would guess one could make the argument that only the Legend Ultra offers them in as compact a package but it does so at about half the price.

So then why the interest? The Nikon name? I certainly have high expectations considering some of the excellent high performance Nikon products that I have owned and do own. It will be interesting though because they obviously can't create a bin that competes directly with the EDG. Yet, there already are several mid priced models that due offer similar performance at all but the edge of the field of view.

As I said it should prove interesting.

Frank:

There are several reasons for interest in a new model in this range from
Nikon. The Monarch has been, from what I have gathered here, the largest
selling low to mid-range binocular. With availability worldwide, and many
happy customers, it is natural for those Monarch users looking to upgrade.

This forum is worldwide, and as far as some of your recent mentions, like
Sightron and Vixen, I am thinking they are not available worldwide, and
so questions of service and quality control would be questions.

Nikon has had been manufacturing in China for many years, and with quite good controls on quality, and you don't hear about unit to unit variation.

Nikons service is very good, at least here in the US. I have used it, and it is a factor to me when I decide on a purchase.
For example, Bushnell from what I have read, is not as good in the service area.

Jerry

[FrankD]

Bob,

I understand what you are saying. My guess then in their appeal will be the hope that Nikon will be able to incorporate higher grade ED glass and more effective dielectric coatings in comparison to what is already offered for the same price or less.

[FrankD]

Jerry,

I had thought about the quality control issue. Hopefully Nikon continues to deliver at this price point.

[eitanaltman]

I'm on the same page with Frank... there are plenty of great options already out there for wide FOV, ED glass binoculars with dielectric coatings at the Monarch 7's price point and lower. I don't quite get all the hubbub, although I have used Monarchs for a long time. I suspect it is the Nikon name that is driving the "buzz" as they do consistently put out a solid product.

[jaymoynihan]

Originally Posted by FrankD

After reading this thread these past weeks I am left with one particular thought...why all the fervor over these new Monarch 7s? ...

It is true there are plenty of similarly spec'ed glasses around. But, these are:

1. Nikon, and will join the ranks of past Monarchs at big box sporting goods/outdoors stores.
2. Quality control. Nikon and Vixen/EO tend to have more reliable quality control and reliability than the other Chinese sourced binos that cost less.
3. Nikon

[Howard220]

Originally Posted by eitanaltman

I'm on the same page with Frank... there are plenty of great options already out there for wide FOV, ED glass binoculars with dielectric coatings at the Monarch 7's price point and lower. I don't quite get all the hubbub, although I have used Monarchs for a long time. I suspect it is the Nikon name that is driving the "buzz" as they do consistently put out a solid product.

With regard to the current discussion, just because a binocular has ED glass, dialectric prism coatings, and a wide field doesn't make it any good. It's the final "execution" that determines its overall quality... and that includes optically.

From my own experience I believe Nikon doesn't always put out a solid product. Take the Monarch 8x36 - please! (The sample I tried was awful.) And, they make some damned good ones. Even my little 9x25 Travelite V is one I would never part with.

[brocknroller]

Originally Posted by FrankD

After reading this thread these past weeks I am left with one particular thought...why all the fervor over these new Monarch 7s? ED glass at this price point and notably less has been around for several years. The same could be said for dielectric coatings. I would guess one could make the argument that only the Legend Ultra offers them in as compact a package but it does so at about half the price.

So then why the interest? The Nikon name? I certainly have high expectations considering some of the excellent high performance Nikon products that I have owned and do own. It will be interesting though because they obviously can't create a bin that competes directly with the EDG. Yet, there already are several mid priced models that due offer similar performance at all but the edge of the field of view.

As I said it should prove interesting.

Why the fervor? Why the interest? Why all the hubbub, bub, three men in a tub?

Well, I'll tell ya, Frank. Because I've got high hopes, yes, I've got high hopes, high, apple pie, in the skyyyyy hopes.

Because I can't afford a $2,299.99 EDG, and the Monarch 7's could turn out to be a "Poor Man's EDG".

I love my porros, but for those gray days of fall and winter, the CA can be a little annoying while watching birds of prey.even though as CA goes, the SEs are fairly low.

Plus it would be nice to have a WP bin when I'm out and about and I have my Smartphone turned off and miss the flash flood warning by the National Weather Service (btw, is that Stephen Hawking who gives those reports for towns in PAH?).

Having owned/collected porros for about 15 years now, I think it's about time for another roof, one that doesn't have a too fast focuser, one that is easier to hold than the 8x32 LX, and that doesn't have the RB of the full sized LX models. But that otherwise gives images "almost" as good.

I've never been a fan of the past Monarchs because of the stingy FOV and also because of the ergos, which are not a good fit for my hands. Too much bridge, not enough barrel.

The high bar "H" design of the Monarch 7 looks promising (and Monarch 5 - are they pulling that model? be strange having two bins that look identical, but one costs almost $300 more).

And because they hopefully have that "Nikon view" with a slight red bias.

<B>

[Chosun Juan]

Originally Posted by brocknroller

Why the fervor? Why the interest? Why all the hubbub, bub, three men in a tub?
Having owned/collected porros for about 15 years now, I think it's about time for another roof, one that doesn't have a too fast focuser, one that is easier to hold than the 8x32 LX, and that doesn't have the RB of the full sized LX models. But that otherwise gives images "almost" as good.<B>

Have I just walked into a parallel dimension?! (again)??!! ..... denco proclaiming SE's as ,brock changing camps to roofs

"If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary-wise; what it is it wouldn't be, and what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?"

This is doing my head in

Excuse me folks, but I'm late, I'm late ....... a white rabbit just took off with my carrot cake!


Chosun

[mayoayo]

If the image quality is on par with current ED offers ,like the ZEN ED3 or the Bushnell legend HD,The Monarch offers slightly better specifications,(better FOV than comparable 10X models,better Eye relief ,lighter weight..)..It has been mentioned many times,and many agree, that getting those small improvements ,when buying optics, justify paying more,So The Monarch 7 doesnt seem to be all that overpriced...Dont forget more expensive offers of similar quality, like Pentax ED ,and various Vortex and MInoX models...In that arena is where the Nikon Mch7 will be contending!

[denco@comcast.n]

That looks like a sweet binocular. I want one but it probably wouldn't be quite as good as my EDG would it? Nice looking though and a good price.

[BruceH]

Originally Posted by denco@comcast.n

..............but it probably wouldn't be quite as good as my EDG would it? ..........

Logic says ... not.

I called my local Cabela's yesterday and was told by the nice lady that they had both the 8X and 10X in stock and they were "magnificent". How can you arque with that! I need to go and check them out.

Compared to the EDG, I would expect to see a loss of sharpness toward the edges, but the question is how big is the sharp center view. The other areas that interest me is to see if the focus mechanism compares to the EDG and if it has the same overall nice feel. I expect to see a nice sharp and bright center view.

August is usually the beginning of the fall hunting promotions so there many be a posibility of some deals soon. A local Bass Pro sales rep mentioned to me a couple of weeks ago that they were going to have some optics deals as part of their mid August hunting promotion and they were going to increase their inventory for the hunting season.

[Nixterdemus]

A bin certainly moving on the, I care enough to want the best and do my research, but I only wanna drop a half a G.

I too am interested in how the new ZR Prime w/field flattener oculars will fare against this plain Jane.