[denco@comcast.n]

Are Nikon SE's and EII's the best porro's for birding made or is there anything out there that is as good or better? They are the best porro's I have tried but I haven't tried a ton of porro's.

[FrankD]

I would rate my Vixens at the same level as either Nikon. Each has it's own unique optical traits but overall I believe they are at the same level.

Haven't tried the Swarovski Habichts but based on others' comments I would expect them to be at the same level as the Nikons as well.

[denco@comcast.n]

Originally Posted by FrankD

I would rate my Vixens at the same level as either Nikon. Each has it's own unique optical traits but overall I believe they are at the same level.

Haven't tried the Swarovski Habichts but based on others' comments I would expect them to be at the same level as the Nikons as well.

Allbinos ranks the Habichts quite a bit lower than the Nikon's. Since I tend to agree with them I haven't tried them.

http://www.allbinos.com/112-binocula...t_10x40_W.html

[idaho john]

Originally Posted by FrankD

I would rate my Vixens at the same level as either Nikon. Each has it's own unique optical traits but overall I believe they are at the same level.

Haven't tried the Swarovski Habichts but based on others' comments I would expect them to be at the same level as the Nikons as well.

Frank: are there comparable alternatives to the Nikons and the Vixens in an 8x30, 8x32 or 7x35 format? I am reluctant to pay the premium to Nikon. Your opinion would be appreciated and you can PM if you would rather avoid the onslaught of competing opinon(s).

John

[denco@comcast.n]

Originally Posted by idaho john

Frank: are there comparable alternatives to the Nikons and the Vixens in an 8x30, 8x32 or 7x35 format? I am reluctant to pay the premium to Nikon. Your opinion would be appreciated and you can PM if you would rather avoid the onslaught of competing opinon(s).

John

Frank. I would like to know the answer to that question also. Are the 7x50's Vixen's the only model worth looking at? I ordered a pair of the 7x50 Vixen's out of curiousity from Amazon(Only $269.00 shipped). I have a pair of 8x30 EII's coming too so I will compare the two. I don't think I can tolerate the weight but I want to check out the optics.

[denco@comcast.n]

Originally Posted by FrankD

I would rate my Vixens at the same level as either Nikon. Each has it's own unique optical traits but overall I believe they are at the same level.

Haven't tried the Swarovski Habichts but based on others' comments I would expect them to be at the same level as the Nikons as well.

When I get the 7x50 Vixen's on Tuesday I will compare them to the Nikon 8x30 EII's I have coming next week. I will keep the pair I like the best. I have a feeling the huge FOV of the EII's will win out but we will see. Really 33oz for the Vixen's is as you say not that heavy for a 50mm binocular. I think the Swarovision 10x50's are about that. Do the Vixens come with a decent case and rainguard and objective covers?

[FrankD]

Dennis,

I will have to check on the case and straps. Haven't used them. They are in the box. I usually use a vero villini strap aftermarket.

Considering the configurations being compared maybe the 8x32 Foresta porro would have been more appropriate.

John,

PM sent.

[denco@comcast.n]

"Considering the configurations being compared maybe the 8x32 Foresta porro would have been more appropriate."

I don't know. I think you could be liking that big exit pupil on the 7x50's. They probably have a great DOF also which makes up for the slightly smaller FOV.

[Torview]

I can`t help feeling there is an ulterior motive lurking beneath the surface of this EII purchase, which is to compare it back to back with your EDG, proclaim the latter far superior in an attempt to silence those critics who pointed out they owned both, had done same and consider them pretty much equal.

Now I`m not having a dig here because everybody`s opinion is as valid as the next, and is anyway, subjective, its the way you stomp all over other`s opinions that rub people up the wrong way.

I really hope I`m way off target here, and you are in fact longing to replace a much loved and missed optic.

[PHA]

Hi d-c,

I have compared MYSELF, the Nikon 10x42 SE and the Habicht 10x40 W GA, in different light conditions and scenaries. From that "test" between this two examples, the Swarovski Habicht was marginally but clearly BETTER optically! I don´t understand how sometime the Nikon SE 10x42 is rated as the best optically of All binoculars...! I repeat, from that test of only two, it is not! And the build quality, well, no comparition!!!! The Swarovski Habicht is in another league!!! Is an amazing binocular !!

Regards

PHA

[denco@comcast.n]

Originally Posted by Torview

I can`t help feeling there is an ulterior motive lurking beneath the surface of this EII purchase, which is to compare it back to back with your EDG, proclaim the latter far superior in an attempt to silence those critics who pointed out they owned both, had done same and consider them pretty much equal.

Now I`m not having a dig here because everybody`s opinion is as valid as the next, and is anyway, subjective, its the way you stomp all over other`s opinions that rub people up the wrong way.

I really hope I`m way off target here, and you are in fact longing to replace a much loved and missed optic.

No, I just missed my EII. I like the big easy FOV and the 3D image. I received it today and it's like visiting and old friend. Very nice. I forgot how small they are and what a nice 3D image they provide. I like them better than the SE. It will be interesting to compare them to Frank's Vixen though. I get the Vixen Foresta 7x50 tomorrow from Amazon so I will compare the two. I am going out on my deck now to compare the EDG to the EII before the sun sets. Good time to check for stray light.

[denco@comcast.n]

Originally Posted by PHA

Hi d-c,

I have compared MYSELF, the Nikon 10x42 SE and the Habicht 10x40 W GA, in different light conditions and scenaries. From that "test" between this two examples, the Swarovski Habicht was marginally but clearly BETTER optically! I don´t understand how sometime the Nikon SE 10x42 is rated as the best optically of All binoculars...! I repeat, from that test of only two, it is not! And the build quality, well, no comparition!!!! The Swarovski Habicht is in another league!!! Is an amazing binocular !!

Regards

PHA

Interesting. Most reviews I have read rate the Nikon SE higher. The Habicht looks beautiful and I am sure it is well constructed but it surprises me you find the optics better than the SE. Hmmm. Maybe I will have to look through one sometime.

[NDhunter]

Originally Posted by PHA

Hi d-c,

I have compared MYSELF, the Nikon 10x42 SE and the Habicht 10x40 W GA, in different light conditions and scenaries. From that "test" between this two examples, the Swarovski Habicht was marginally but clearly BETTER optically! I don´t understand how sometime the Nikon SE 10x42 is rated as the best optically of All binoculars...! I repeat, from that test of only two, it is not! And the build quality, well, no comparition!!!! The Swarovski Habicht is in another league!!! Is an amazing binocular !!

Regards

PHA

PHA:

I own the 10x42 SE, and have compared it to some others in the top class.
It is a very good binocular, and I am calling you on saying the Swaro. is
better than the SE.
You should review the Allbinos reviews comparing the 10x42's, the Swaro.
seems to be a very nice binocular, but is old school, and does not have
some things that distinguish the SE.
The SE has the field flattener eyepiece, which offers much less distortion,
better edges, and higher transmission.

I think you have it turned around, the SE is in another league, and is
ranked above the Swaro. porro, and by a good margin.

Jerry

[denco@comcast.n]

Originally Posted by denco@comcast.n

No, I just missed my EII. I like the big easy FOV and the 3D image. I received it today and it's like visiting and old friend. Very nice. I forgot how small they are and what a nice 3D image they provide. I like them better than the SE. It will be interesting to compare them to Frank's Vixen though. I get the Vixen Foresta 7x50 tomorrow from Amazon so I will compare the two. I am going out on my deck now to compare the EDG to the EII before the sun sets. Good time to check for stray light.

I got the Nikon 8x30 EII today and so I went outside and compared it to my Nikon 8x32 EDG II.To be honest the large FOV and 3D effect on the EII is nice but there is a big difference in contrast between the two. The EII appears almost washed out in comparison to the EDG. In fact I couldn't believe the difference. I kept going back and forth and trying to figure out what was going on but there really is a big difference in contrast. Objects that are black in the EDG are almost a grey in the EII. My EII's were the newer black bodied version too. It has to be the advancements they have made in coatings over the years. The FOV on the EDG is smaller but that smaller FOV is sharp as a tack right to the edge and has much better contrast. The 3D effect on the EII was a little better but the EDG has a pretty good 3D effect for a roof. It's kind of like comparing a smaller screen tv that is really sharp right to the edge to a bigger screen tv that doesn't have as good of contrast and is blurry on the edges. I decided that for me I will take the smaller higher quality sharper FOV on the EDG. I returned the EII's. They are good glass for the money but they are losing ground compared to the newer alphas. Also, as Frank says the ER is barely marginal on the EII's. Without glasses it was just barely enough for me. Tomorrow I get the Vixen's that Frank recommends.

[Simon S]

I love my Nikon Se it is a great binocular.
Here is my review.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyPQD...1&feature=plcp

[Torview]

Originally Posted by denco@comcast.n

I returned the EII's.

What do you know, I`m clairvoyant !

[denco@comcast.n]

Originally Posted by Simon S

I love my Nikon Se it is a great binocular.
Here is my review.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyPQD...1&feature=plcp

Have you ever compared the Nikon 8x30 EII to the SE? Does the SE have better contrast? I was amazed what a difference in contrast there was between the EII and the EDG.

[PHA]

Hi Jerry,

I told what I saw comparing these two examples! Nothing more, nothing less!! I took a whole evening doing that comparition. I must said I expected to find the Nikon SE superior optically to the Habicht, from all that had been published about the Nikon. But, after that my "test", simple but carefully made, I couldn`t find that superiority. In fact I saw MORE DETAILS with the Swarovski than with the Nikon looking at difficult targets...! May be the edge of the field was slightly better in the Nikon. But the main center view, well, for me and between these two examples, was better, slightly, but better anyway, in the Habicht!!
And the construction of the Habicht is really an example of a well made and long-lasting binocular. Made as in de "good old days" when the life cicles of "mechanicals things" were much longer than today!! I am convinced that, to start the development and set up the machinery to made the Habicht today from scratch would not be economically feasible !

Regards

PHA

[Simon S]

Originally Posted by denco@comcast.n

Have you ever compared the Nikon 8x30 EII to the SE? Does the SE have better contrast? I was amazed what a difference in contrast there was between the EII and the EDG.

No sorry. Would like a EII but not had a lot of luck so far.

[denco@comcast.n]

Originally Posted by Simon S

No sorry. Would like a EII but not had a lot of luck so far.

I got the Vixen 7x50 Foresta and they are quite impressive optically. They didn't work real well for me but I can see why Frank likes them. Great DOF with hardly no focusing and a stunning 3D effect(more than an EII), bright of course and very sharp although slightly fuzzy at the edges. I compared them to my EDG's tonite. The Vixen's are pretty light and the balance is good for a 50mm. The two major weaknesses which made them a no go for me was the eyecups which were too big for my eyesockets and the smaller FOV. The eyecups are way bigger than the EDG's and too me were uncomfortable. I just can't tolerate a smaller FOV after having alpha binoculars with big expansive FOV views. I almost kept the Vixen though because it is a very good buy for the money but I decided to return them too Amazon.

[brocknroller]

The 10x35 EII black body version I have, which used to belong to Dennis, ironically enough, has the best apparent contrast I've seen in a bin.

Blacks look blacker than any other bin I've tried. Blacker even than the SE, the latest versions of which (550/8x, 050/10x) have excellent contrast, but blacks still look dark charcoal gray compared to the jet black in the 10x35 BB EII.

I compared the 10x SE and the 10x EII by looking at my neighbor's black truck and its black tires. The EII came closer to what I see naked eye. The blacks were a shade or two lighter in the SE.

I've also compared the two by looking at tractor trailers on the highway (after looking at some hawks), and the results were the same. The apparent contrast in the EII is stunning and really pulls out the detail.

I didn't have the BB 10x35 EII at the time to compare with the 10x42 EDG, but I did have my older 8x30 EII, and I noted how good the contrast was in the EDG. ED glass is supposed to boost contrast by up to 15% so the contrast should be better than an non-ED bin.

The contrast in the EDG was not so much better that I'd sell the EII if I also had an EDG, because the EII has other virtues which the EDG does not, namely its 8.8* FOV, which provides a "walk in" view that's unrivaled in any other bin I've tried, and better depth perception and 3-D effect than comparable configuration roofs.

Best of all, the 8x30 EII doesn't cost $2,299.99! I bought mine for $315 when EO had them in stock. WAY, WAY, WAY more "bang for the buck".

I bet if Dennis had paid full price for the EDG II, he'd be returning the EDG rather than the EII, because no way is the contrast or any other optical property so much better to justify the much, much higher cost.

Even when you add in the WP, internal focuser, and ED glass, the EDG still seems terribly overpriced considering the views you can get from the SE and EII series.

I think once the dollar rebounds we'll see the price of the EDGs fall to the price range of the Trinovids. However, they are still not going to sell competitively with other bins at that price point unless Nikon does a better job of promoting the EDG both here and abroad and getting them into more stores so people can try them out.

<B>

[ceasar]

I will have to get out my older 10 x 35 EII and 10 x 42 SE and look at the tires on my neighbors cars and see if the binoculars have changed over the years from Brocks. I probably also should look at them through my 10 x 32 EDG I. And then see which is the blackest of the black.

I will report back on it after they release me from commitment!

Come to think of it, I probably should do this study from a portable hide.

Bob

[jinxin]

SE has very good optic,E2 is my favourate parro,the wide FOV is very practical,never let you down especially when you take it go outside.You can find many binos have very good optics but can hardly find a large FOV bino like E2.

I used to have a E2 830 two years ago then I sold it,after few days I realised what a mistake I had made ,Im thinking about getting a E2 again some time.

Xin

[denco@comcast.n]

Originally Posted by jinxin

SE has very good optic,E2 is my favourate parro,the wide FOV is very practical,never let you down especially when you take it go outside.You can find many binos have very good optics but can hardly find a large FOV bino like E2.

I used to have a E2 830 two years ago then I sold it,after few days I realised what a mistake I had made ,Im thinking about getting a E2 again some time.

Xin

I just bought a new EII 8x30 newer black bodied version and although I like the big FOV to be honest I wasn't impressed with the contrast at all compared to my 8x32 EDG II. I compared them back to back and the difference was unbelievable. The EII view was really washed out compared to the EDG II. The EDG II has WAY better contrast than the EII. They have made remarkable strides over the years in coatings and ED glass to the point that the older classics like the EII are beginning to lose ground when compared to the newer alphas especially in contrast. I purchased a new Nikon 8x32 SE which I will get next week to compare with my EDG to see if it has better contrast. I want a good porro but I want something that is close to the EDG II in optics. I like the 3D view of the porro's and the excellent transmission of most of them and the simple light construction and the low costs. The Vixen Foresta has a really striking view too bad the FOV isn't larger. It is a tad on the tunnel side but it is remarkably sharp and bright and what an incredible 3D image. It is almost like you are standing outside the binocular. I have never seen such a striking 3D image. It is really enjoyable. It has started me on a quest to get a view like that with a bigger FOV. The 7x50 Foresta is really amazing in that once focused it has such a great DOF that you don't have to focus it again. You can see birds close up and at a distance and they are in perfect focus. Also, the huge exit pupil makes for comfortable viewing. The Vixen Foresta has the most different view of any binocular I have tried. If it wasn't for the eyecups that were too big for my eye sockets and the smaller FOV I would have kept it. But other people it might work better for. You should try it. Any way the Vixen Foresta went back to Amazon and I returned the Nikon 8x30 II to the seller so if you are looking for an EII there might be one popping up on E-bay. It did have some slight scratches in the coating on the front objective that the seller didn't note so be forwarned if you bid on it. He ships from Canada but the ad says UK which is weird. The rest of the EII was perfect. When I get the Nikon 8x32 SE I will compare it to my EDG II and If I don't like it I will send it back. I bought it through Amazon and the seller is Adorama so they must have just got some in stock. It was $599.95. That was the cheapest I could find it for. A used one on E-bay just went for about $550.00 last week that wasn't even in mint condition. The SE's are getting rarer too like the EII's. The Vixen has really intrigued me though. If it wasn't for the smaller FOV it has a really stunning view especially for $270.00. Quite amazing. If I could fing something with smaller eyecups and a little bigger FOV like it it would be amazing.

[Torview]

Sorry Dennis, this has nothing to do with 3D views and everything to do with you trying to prove your belief that the EDG is all concurring.

Am I the only one who see`s this ?

In a previous thread entitled "Why do you like Porro Prisms ?" you wrote:-

Post #4 "as far as the 3D image.......I personally prefer the flatter, bigger image of the roofs"

And Post #53:- "you don`t need a $500.00 porro if you have a $2k roof"

We do read and inwardly absorb these threads you know.

If anyone can explain why this bugs me so, I could use the help !