[Palmer]

On the Internet (Astromart classified binoculars) there is an Oberwerk 25/40x100 binoculars offered with semi apochromatic triplet objectives. The price is very low, Euro 950,= compared to similar instruments.
It looks pretty nice, fully coated, BAK4, etc. with wooden tripod.
What is the quality of this instrument.
Does anyone know this kind of instrument, is it way to heavy, etc?
pls mail me at ceeshotml@hotmail.com
Thx
Cees

[Katy Penland]

Hi, Cees,

A warm welcome to you from all of us on staff at BirdForum!

I can't help with your question, but I'm sure someone will be along shortly who can. I must say, though, that a wooden tripod sure sounds heavy in and of itself. Then again, it would probably have to be to support such big glass!

[jpoyner]

Originally Posted by Palmer

On the Internet (Astromart classified binoculars) there is an Oberwerk 25/40x100 binoculars offered with semi apochromatic triplet objectives. The price is very low, Euro 950,= compared to similar instruments.
It looks pretty nice, fully coated, BAK4, etc. with wooden tripod.
What is the quality of this instrument.
Does anyone know this kind of instrument, is it way to heavy, etc?
pls mail me at ceeshotml@hotmail.com
Thx
Cees

Forget it for birding, I wouldn't waste your money.

Only consider binoculars up to 10 times mag. max otherwise they are useless in the hand, too dark and far too heavy.
For higher magnification a scope recommended.
Many of these high mag. binoculars you see advertised are as good as useless!

[richard866945]

Hello Cees. I have a 25x100 which weighs 14 lbs ( over 6 kilo ). Don't take it out to watch birds - wait for them to come to me.

Originally Posted by Palmer

On the Internet (Astromart classified binoculars) there is an Oberwerk 25/40x100 binoculars offered with semi apochromatic triplet objectives. The price is very low, Euro 950,= compared to similar instruments.
It looks pretty nice, fully coated, BAK4, etc. with wooden tripod.
What is the quality of this instrument.
Does anyone know this kind of instrument, is it way to heavy, etc?
pls mail me at ceeshotml@hotmail.com
Thx
Cees

[normjackson]

For info on physical attributes, here's a link to a retailer in the US :
http://www.bigbinoculars.com/2540100.htm
And the likely supplier to Oberwerk :
http://www.binocularschina.com/binoc...mmpainted.html
Some of these specs may decide things for you. Things seem to move quickly in the world of Chinese optics, so there are probably quite a few versions of this. Reckon you'd have a better chance of feedback on the optical qualities of this model on a specialist astro forum such as the astromart forum you mention or cloudynights.

Hope that's some help.

[Bill A]

I've often wondered why tripod-held 20 or 25x have never appealed to birders. I've no experience with them myself. Are they too heavy to carry in the field with tripod? Certainly it's much easier to look for long periods with two eyes, and I've often thought how nice it would be to have two eyepieces to look into when I'm peering through my spotting scope.

Bill A

[normjackson]

Bill, guess the scope wins for versatility; good brightness, good quality, potential 60x magnification without being outrageuosly heavy (and requiring a correspondingly substantial support).
There was an interesting thread back in January about avoiding headaches using scope. Recall posting this link about a budget scope with bino viewer by Meade/Bresser being targeted at terrestrial users :
http://www.monkoptics.co.uk/Observation/cyclops.html
Soon after a retailer here called birdnet started offering the 110mm version. Not sure if they’ve had many takers, though. Maybe needs a respected brand in birding optics world to offer something before people will take notice. Currently the addition of the bino viewer raises the cost of a modest scope to that of a very good ED one

[salty]

Originally Posted by jpoyner

Forget it for birding, I wouldn't waste your money.

Only consider binoculars up to 10 times mag. max otherwise they are useless in the hand, too dark and far too heavy.
For higher magnification a scope recommended.
Many of these high mag. binoculars you see advertised are as good as useless!

i'll second that. you often see ads wich promote things such as ''worlds most powerful binos'' 140x70 binos and the like! come on get real.

[Bubbs]

Originally Posted by Bill A

I've often wondered why tripod-held 20 or 25x have never appealed to birders. I've no experience with them myself. Are they too heavy to carry in the field with tripod? Certainly it's much easier to look for long periods with two eyes, and I've often thought how nice it would be to have two eyepieces to look into when I'm peering through my spotting scope.

Bill A

Some years ago in Israel, I spent several days watching raptors with a group of guys. One of them had a pair of 20X Swift binoculars..and they really did do the job of a scope.

He obviously had a 'normal' pair of bins but used these heavyweights instead of a scope. He didn't wear them around his neck, he held simply held them by his side when not in use. They were far easier to use than an angled scope -which I own.

I would not hesitate to use and own a 20X pair of bins (at the right price) for raptors which, lets face it, are only passing in active flight for a few seconds (mountains of Eilat) but they really would be useless for prolonged hand held viewing of species like slow moving waders, passerines, etc, simply because of the narrow filed of view and weight.


JB

[Bill A]

Originally Posted by john barclay

Some years ago in Israel, I spent several days watching raptors with a group of guys. One of them had a pair of 20X Swift binoculars..and they really did do the job of a scope.

He obviously had a 'normal' pair of bins but used these heavyweights instead of a scope. He didn't wear them around his neck, he held simply held them by his side when not in use. They were far easier to use than an angled scope -which I own.

I would not hesitate to use and own a 20X pair of bins (at the right price) for raptors which, lets face it, are only passing in active flight for a few seconds (mountains of Eilat) but they really would be useless for prolonged hand held viewing of species like slow moving waders, passerines, etc, simply because of the narrow filed of view and weight.


JB

Hi John,

Very interesting post. Using giant binocs for quick view of passing raptors might work; and I wonder how the 20x or 25x would be for prolonged viewing on a tripod? Seems to me it might be good. Hand held for this sort of thing would, of course, be an exercise in futility.

Best,
Bill

[salty]

i used to own a pair of 20x50s, thing was, you could tell when you were getting tired - you couldnt see a thing because of the short field of view and wobbly sight picture! mainly used them in the garden for that reason.

[Bubbs]

Originally Posted by salty

i used to own a pair of 20x50s, thing was, you could tell when you were getting tired - you couldnt see a thing because of the short field of view and wobbly sight picture! mainly used them in the garden for that reason.

It's a fair point. But the field of view of a 20X pair of binoculars will only be the same as my 20 w/a scope lens (or thereabouts)

I can remember the difficulties I had when I first tried to pick up raptors through an angled scope...it certainly took some getting used to.

Thankfully (or not) the raptor passage was mostly over by lunchtime in the mountains of Eilat - saving on fatigue with a large pair of bins.

On an equally serious note: If a pair of lightweight 20X binoculars were made
by the big boys..Nikon, Leica, Swaro, Zeiss, etc, I would consider using them for my days with the raptors...much easier than the scope. A large pair of bins may not be the height of birding fashion but there again I couldn't care less; if it works, own it!

JB.

[Curtis Croulet]

Large bins are usually intended for astronomy, not birding. I've seen commercial models with objectives as large as 150mm. They are often favored by comet hunters. Such bins require a sturdy mounting, of course. Talented telescope builders have sometimes built much larger binoculars by coupling two Newtonian reflectors on the same mounting.

[Bubbs]

Originally Posted by Palmer

On the Internet (Astromart classified binoculars) there is an Oberwerk 25/40x100 binoculars offered with semi apochromatic triplet objectives. The price is very low, Euro 950,= compared to similar instruments.
It looks pretty nice, fully coated, BAK4, etc. with wooden tripod.
What is the quality of this instrument.
Does anyone know this kind of instrument, is it way to heavy, etc?
pls mail me at ceeshotml@hotmail.com
Thx
Cees

My gut feeling re these Oberwerks is to keep well clear and save your money.

JB.

[Jules Sykes]

Hi
A Dutch guy at the Algorobbo raptor watchpoint (Tariffa) had a pair of 15x Swarvoski bins that were mounted on a tripod and he was the 'dogs bo*%$*ks' with them, even picked up and ided a rapid moving Lesser Kestrel at distance. So i think there is a place for this type of thing they are just very specialist, like a Questar you'd never use one of those for sea-watching.

[Bubbs]

Originally Posted by Bill A

Hi John,

Very interesting post. Using giant binocs for quick view of passing raptors might work; and I wonder how the 20x or 25x would be for prolonged viewing on a tripod? Seems to me it might be good. Hand held for this sort of thing would, of course, be an exercise in futility.

Best,
Bill

Hi Bill, The only way (in my opinion) that a large pair of bins would work on a tripod for raptors is to have the eye pieces on an angle. The Swifts really were very good (when hand held) and a lot quicker at 'picking' up raptors than the rest of us struggling thru angled 20X w/a.

It was a long time ago and in early May. The maximum day count was 125,000 Honey Buzzards - we didn't even need binoculars...they were so close.

Happy days.

JB.

EDIT...but we had quiet days as well, especially when the wind blew from the south..a day around the pool somedays....life's a bitch!

[Bubbs]

Originally Posted by Jules Sykes

Hi
A Dutch guy at the Algorobbo raptor watchpoint (Tariffa) had a pair of 15x Swarvoski bins that were mounted on a tripod and he was the 'dogs bo*%$*ks' with them, even picked up and ided a rapid moving Lesser Kestrel at distance. So i think there is a place for this type of thing they are just very specialist, like a Questar you'd never use one of those for sea-watching.

EXACTLY

JB.

[grbrown]

Hi Cees,

I have come across similar large binoculars, with various names, around the world and am also trying to decide if they are worth the money. I came across your question while searching the net for more details on them! I have also read the rest of this discussion and would like to make a few comments.

I have been bird watching for decades and firmly believe that the first priority is the best quality of ordinary binocular one can afford. With practice one can hold heavier and higher magnification models than when starting out. I now have 12x50 Leica, but have also used 15x70 Steiner with success. So do not buy a scope until you have the very best bins you can afford!

I have also tried various telescopes/spotting scopes but do not get on with them, suffering eye strain very soon. I have repeatedly searched for a decent large binocular that is a sensible price, without success and am still searching.

I find these fall into two broad groups: those that resemble large versions of conventional binoculars (and are usually quite cheap): those that are essentially two scopes joined together (and are usually not cheap!). In my opinion the first group should be passed over without a second glance.

In answer to some commentators, seek out the Kowa Highlander! This is essentially two of their 82mm scopes joined together and is available with APO objectives and uses the same interchangeable eyepieces:

http://www.kowascope.com/

To me this model sets the standard to be achieved, but also costs a great deal more than I am prepared to afford. However it is not exceptionally heavy and provides exactly the same high quality of performance as a scope, twice over.

So there are large binoculars out there worthy of consideration! The use I intend to put such things to is watching at reservoirs and estuaries, where the feathered perishers can be relied upon to be a long way away.

I will continue the quest for more affordable large bins and report back if successful.

Graham.

[solentbirder]

Hi Graham
I'm into astronomy as well as birding and the top class large binoculars most highly sought after include:
Fujinon FMT-SX 16x70 (available from Monk Optics in the UK)
Nikon 18x70 Astroluxe
Miyauchi 20x77 (angled eyepieces - really a binocular telescope)
Zeiss 15x60 Classic (if you can find a pair)
All of these provide superb image quality but are very heavy and really need mounting or resting on a bean-bag or such like. The Nikon and Fujinon have individual eyepiece focussing but if you're observing at a long distance this shouldn't be too inconvenient and there's good depth of field.
For more information on large binoculars check out the reviews on Cloudynights.com
Hope that helps
John

[grbrown]

John,

Thanks for that - I will go searching shortly. I also have an interest in astronomy, although do not do much observing, I have to admit. It is however through that interest that I have come across really large binoculars and am considering something even bigger than those you mention. I bought my Steiner 15x80s as an interim step up in size, but find my latest Leica 12x50s better still.

Fujinon make some truly massive bins, with prices to match, which if price were no obstacle I would buy without hesitation. They make them with up to 150mm objectives if memory serves me well. Plainly they need a substantial tripod as I expect my next purchase to do too. I should say 'our', as my wife is as keen as I and we have already determined that heavy bins and a heavy tripod can be managed between us.

The bins Cees refers to are in that larger range and effectively two scopes set into a single housing, like the Kowa I mentioned. A search on US websites reveals they are widely available over there for around $1400-£1700, have 100mm 3 element objectives and Erfle eyepieces of 25x, 40x and 62x are available. That makes for a very comprehensive armoury of bird watching tackle! It also compares with the high profile scope brands in price and magnifications.

The question is: do they provide performance to match their spec? I am inclined to the view that the Chinese, who make them, should be able to employ Western technology and their currently cheap labour to good effect. I am inclined to say we should buy now while prices are low. Certainly I am extremely tempted, so thanks to Cees for drawing attention to them!

They are sold in the UK under the brand name of 'Strathspey' for around £1000, which is about the price of a pair of larger Leica bins or similar, which makes them very attractive. The 82mm Kowa Highlander are more like £4000, although of undoubtedly very high quality. They take the same range of eyepieces as their scopes. But a factor of 4:1 in price is too good to ignore!

I am off to continue my armchair research!

Graham.

[grbrown]

JP,

You need to get out more! These Oberwerk binoculars are marketted in the UK under the 'Strathspey' brand name, probably on your doorstep!

They come with a substantial tripod and alternative magnification eyepieces and are effectively a pair of scopes in a single housing - absolutely perfect for bird-watching over estuaries and the like.

Graham.

PS Having read about these big bins on this site and elsewhere we have now ordered a pair of Strathspey 25x/40x100 and await them with interest!