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Old Thursday 22nd November 2012, 13:32   #51
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The one current binocular that comes to mind is the 10x50 SV's! I have owned and peared through alot of glass through the years don't think i ever reacted as strongly to any other glass! If there ever was a wow, it would be it! Wow!!! Rather than that my wow's have been geared to the lesser expensive glass the last 3-5 yrs! Like, wow how much are these! Glass has improved so much in the roof's the last 20 or so years! I remember the first roof prism glass i looked through, i told myself i would never own them!!! Lol! Porro's were king, they lacked the coatings of today so they weren't as bright but, were and are pretty sharp! Bryce...
The 10x50 SV's are the best 10x roofs I have looked through. The best 10x for me is the 10x35 EII. Simply amazing for a 10x.

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Old Thursday 22nd November 2012, 14:33   #52
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8x30 Habicht
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Old Thursday 22nd November 2012, 17:59   #53
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Zeiss 10x42 HT,even my neighbour went WOW when he looked through them in near darkness if you havn`t tried them I suggest you do.It´s like turning the light on whenever you look through them.Was out tonight until dark and saw tawny and barn owls hunting over a meadow,fantastic. Eddy.
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Old Friday 23rd November 2012, 00:55   #54
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Zeiss 10x42 HT,even my neighbour went WOW when he looked through them in near darkness if you havn`t tried them I suggest you do.It´s like turning the light on whenever you look through them.Was out tonight until dark and saw tawny and barn owls hunting over a meadow,fantastic. Eddy.
Yes 10x is even better at night than 8x. I have not looked through the new Zeiss but I am sure they are bright. Are they brighter than the FL's?
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Old Friday 23rd November 2012, 04:54   #55
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Don´t know this is my first pair of Alphas and have not compared to any other.See Troubadours comments on the Zeiss thread. Eddy
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Old Friday 23rd November 2012, 11:40   #56
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the WOW is in the eye of the beholder
any and all can make it
also depends on object seen

a painted bunting, or bald eagle, in a $15 plastic ruby coated pair can create a WOW

edj
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Old Friday 23rd November 2012, 13:10   #57
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8x30 Habicht
8x30 Habicht what? Where did you get your 8x30 Habicht's? I see a a pair on E-bay but they are old and beat up. Do you like them better than your 8x32 SE's?
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Old Friday 23rd November 2012, 13:11   #58
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the WOW is in the eye of the beholder
any and all can make it
also depends on object seen

a painted bunting, or bald eagle, in a $15 plastic ruby coated pair can create a WOW

edj
But MORE WOW in an alpha.
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Old Friday 23rd November 2012, 15:37   #59
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I've never seen WOW thru any junk binocular. I've got one binocular that produces as much WOW as anything your gonna look through no mater what object is being viewed, and it's not one of the two that have 400'+ FOV. That being said, I'm sure those who own "Alpha" models exclusively would consider all of mine to be junk.

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Originally Posted by edwincjones View Post
the WOW is in the eye of the beholder
any and all can make it
also depends on object seen

a painted bunting, or bald eagle, in a $15 plastic ruby coated pair can create a WOW

edj
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Old Friday 23rd November 2012, 17:32   #60
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8x30 Habicht what? Where did you get your 8x30 Habicht's? I see a a pair on E-bay but they are old and beat up. Do you like them better than your 8x32 SE's?
I normally use a porro for most of my birding and if using a 8x it's usually one of the following: 8x30 EII, 8x32 SE, 8x30 Habicht and occasionally the Opticron 8x32 SR GA.

I mentioned the Habicht as having the bigger wow factor for a couple of reasons. First and foremost is the absolutely stunning on axis resolution. Whether I'm testing resolution from the bench during the day or splitting a difficult double star at night I've found the Habicht to be about at as good as it gets a 8x.

The other thing that wows me about the Habicht is that all that optical performance is contained in such a diminutive but obviously mechanically rugged package. The little Swaro exudes quality from top to bottom and has the added bonus of being one of the few conventional center focus porros that is completely waterproof. This waterproofing does lead to the one thing some people might find problematic with the Habicht which is the amount of effort required to focus. I don't find it a problem but my wife mentioned how stiff the focus was when using the Habicht one evening.

As to your question whether or not I liked the Habicht better than the SE I would have to hedge and say it depends. The SE offer better edge performance and a little smoother focus while the Habicht offers better on axis resolution in a smaller/lighter package that is fully waterproof. I have the luxury of having several great binos on hand but for everyday birding I suspect I probably use my 8x30EII more often than not. In inclement weather the 8x30 Habicht or 7x42 EDG usually get the call although I've used the 8x30 EII tucked inside a Badlands bino case in some very rainy weather many times in the past without a hint of a problem.

The Habicht continues to impress me and I'm actually thinking about buying a 7x42 Habicht in the near future. I know it has a rather narrow fov but I really like 7x binos and the 7x42 configuration would be a great performer in low light. In regards to your other question about where I got my 8x30 Habicht I purchased it from one of our own forum members, proudpapa56. Proudpapa's store ,Honey Creek Bill & Beak, is one of the few places you can find the more exotic Swaro items like the Habicht porros and the extendable spotting scopes.

Steve
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Old Saturday 24th November 2012, 01:34   #61
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Re EDJ's post. I think the "wow" experience meant by the original poster and most others above here is something you would get with a particular bin even when the content of the image does not specially interest the viewer: e.g. tree bark, blades of grass, street lamps, in Frank's post.

Posted a query above on what causes "wow" in a bin. Response not overwhelming. Rpeating one point, reworded: Does the best level of all-round optical quality always cause "wow"? If some specific model you have looked through is of such quality and it has not given that experience (which you had with other bins) what is lacking in it?

Last edited by pompadour : Saturday 24th November 2012 at 12:17. Reason: Minor changes.
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Old Saturday 24th November 2012, 03:48   #62
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I purchased an 8x30W Habicht online 2 months ago from this vendor in Germany.

http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/...inoculars.html

If you divide the price by 1.19 you will get the export price then add 47 Euros for UPS express (to Australia).

It is a wonderful binocular and delightfully compact as Steve said. I am hoping to buy a Nikon 8x30 EII next week in Singapore. Dennis kindly gave me the contact in HK but it looks like I will get to pick one up in person as I will be travelling home via Singapore.
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Old Saturday 24th November 2012, 04:26   #63
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I normally use a porro for most of my birding and if using a 8x it's usually one of the following: 8x30 EII, 8x32 SE, 8x30 Habicht and occasionally the Opticron 8x32 SR GA.

I mentioned the Habicht as having the bigger wow factor for a couple of reasons. First and foremost is the absolutely stunning on axis resolution. Whether I'm testing resolution from the bench during the day or splitting a difficult double star at night I've found the Habicht to be about at as good as it gets a 8x.

The other thing that wows me about the Habicht is that all that optical performance is contained in such a diminutive but obviously mechanically rugged package. The little Swaro exudes quality from top to bottom and has the added bonus of being one of the few conventional center focus porros that is completely waterproof. This waterproofing does lead to the one thing some people might find problematic with the Habicht which is the amount of effort required to focus. I don't find it a problem but my wife mentioned how stiff the focus was when using the Habicht one evening.

As to your question whether or not I liked the Habicht better than the SE I would have to hedge and say it depends. The SE offer better edge performance and a little smoother focus while the Habicht offers better on axis resolution in a smaller/lighter package that is fully waterproof. I have the luxury of having several great binos on hand but for everyday birding I suspect I probably use my 8x30EII more often than not. In inclement weather the 8x30 Habicht or 7x42 EDG usually get the call although I've used the 8x30 EII tucked inside a Badlands bino case in some very rainy weather many times in the past without a hint of a problem.

The Habicht continues to impress me and I'm actually thinking about buying a 7x42 Habicht in the near future. I know it has a rather narrow fov but I really like 7x binos and the 7x42 configuration would be a great performer in low light. In regards to your other question about where I got my 8x30 Habicht I purchased it from one of our own forum members, proudpapa56. Proudpapa's store ,Honey Creek Bill & Beak, is one of the few places you can find the more exotic Swaro items like the Habicht porros and the extendable spotting scopes.

Steve
"the Habicht offers better on axis resolution"

Wow,than an SE! That must be an impressive binocular. You have an SE, EII and an 8x30 Habicht. What a threesome. The tight focus doesn't excite me because I hate tight focusers though but I would like to try one. I love the design and quality look of them. What is the FOV and ER on the Habicht?

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Old Saturday 24th November 2012, 04:32   #64
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I purchased an 8x30W Habicht online 2 months ago from this vendor in Germany.

http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/...inoculars.html

If you divide the price by 1.19 you will get the export price then add 47 Euros for UPS express (to Australia).

It is a wonderful binocular and delightfully compact as Steve said. I am hoping to buy a Nikon 8x30 EII next week in Singapore. Dennis kindly gave me the contact in HK but it looks like I will get to pick one up in person as I will be travelling home via Singapore.
When you get your SE's let us know which you prefer. Interesting that you are picking up in Singapore. Do you know what you are getting them for yet?

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Old Saturday 24th November 2012, 09:02   #65
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The official price is $718 SGD (about $570 AUD) but that includes 7% sales tax and I'm hoping I can haggle a bit, maybe get a better case included or something. This model is not available in Australia at all.

You can buy an 8x32SE in Australia however it is $1132 AUD!
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Old Saturday 24th November 2012, 14:04   #66
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The official price is $718 SGD (about $570 AUD) but that includes 7% sales tax and I'm hoping I can haggle a bit, maybe get a better case included or something. This model is not available in Australia at all.

You can buy an 8x32SE in Australia however it is $1132 AUD!
Wow. It's expensive down under. There is an 8x32 SE on Astromart right now for $425.00. Why couldn't you talk him into shipping to AU.

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Old Saturday 24th November 2012, 15:52   #67
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Does the best level of all-round optical quality always cause "wow"?


If some specific model you have looked through is of such quality and it has not given that experience (which you had with other bins) what is lacking in it?

I think yes when conditions are reasonable, although if viewing conditions are abysmal then no optic can.


The two roofs I have look impressive initially, but in direct comparison to the Minox Porro they have an overall darkness and lack of resolution that is not hard to see.
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Old Saturday 24th November 2012, 17:29   #68
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Bh4_, thanks. Sorry I was not clear in one thing there. By "always" I meant not at all times but with all such instruments (of that quality).

Moving forward from that response, would like to ask more specifically from those who admit "alpha" into their optics vocabulary and are also receptive to the "wow" experience: has every alpha you looked through produced that "wow"? If not then why? (Just trying to figure out some things regardng optical quality!)

Last edited by pompadour : Saturday 24th November 2012 at 17:30. Reason: Punctuation.
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Old Saturday 24th November 2012, 17:53   #69
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Bh4_, thanks. Sorry I was not clear in one thing there. By "always" I meant not at all times but with all such instruments (of that quality).

Moving forward from that response, would like to ask more specifically from those who admit "alpha" into their optics vocabulary and are also receptive to the "wow" experience: has every alpha you looked through produced that "wow"? If not then why? (Just trying to figure out some things regardng optical quality!)
Not every alpha. For example the Swarovision 8x32 and the Nikon EDG 8x32 although they have excellent optics don't wow me as much as the Leica 8x32 BN. I think it might be contrast and "snap".
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Old Sunday 25th November 2012, 13:18   #70
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Nice question about the WOW factor, I thought about it some time and I have the following list (in alphabetical order), but I realise that this list could have many more instruments which yield a WOW experience as I noticed when I walked through the optical museums in Jena and in Oberkochen and I will probably have an even stronger experience when we have the possibility to visit Peter Louwmans new optics museum in The Netherlands in 2013:
- Angenieux 7x30
- Asahi Pentax Marine 6x30 Porro in B&L construction
- Asahi Pentax Papilio 6,5x21 Porro
- Bausch and Lomb (1942-1944) 7x50 porro
- Bleeker Medibu 6x30 porro
- Ednar military (Leica made) 6x42 Porro
- Hartmann Compact 7x35 porro
- Hartmann Compact 8x30 Porro N.B. My impression is that Nikon copied the Hartmann compacts for its original 7x35 and its 8x30 E porro's
- Hensoldt-Wacht 5x35 roof (1905 or 1906)
- Hensoldt Jagd Dialyt 6x36 roof (1910-1918)
- Hensoldt Dialyt roof 8x32
- Hensoldt Nacht Dialyt roof 8x56, later produced by Zeiss as Zeiss Dialyt 8x56
- Kern Armee 6x30 porro from 1934, probably the first binocular with twist up eyecups
- Leitz Fernglass 08 lens binocular 5x40 (so-called Holland glass because of the Dutch inventor of the binoculars Hans Lipperhey. Sometimes one also sees these binoculars named as Galilei binoculars, but Galilei never invented binoculars and he never claimed that). Fernglas 08 was made by many companies and one can only see the difference upon looking to the inscription on it, so one finds Fernglas 08 made by Zeiss, Goerz, Bush, Voigtländer etc.) Very strong instrument and nice to see.
- Leitz Amplivid 6x24 (prism+mirror) with very large FOV
- Leitz Trinovids 7x35B AND 10X40B. Beautiful design and very compact
- Leica Trinovid 8x32BN
- Leica Ultravid HD 8x32
- Leica Ultravid 8x20
- Nedinsco Nedelta 7x50 Porro, extremely sturdy, originally made by Zeiss in Holland
- Nedinsco-Zeiss and Zeiss-Jena Silvamar 6x30 porro. Many many were made mostly under the name of Zeiss. This binocular was in production for many years
- Nikon 8x30 porro FOV 8,5 degrees (first E-model?)
- Nikon 10x70 porro
- Optolyth 12x50 porro very lightweight
- PZO Poland 7x45 porro
- Ross porro-2 7x50
- Sard 7x50 Porro very beautiful to look at and to look through, B&L housing construction
- Swarovski Habicht 8x30 Porro
- Swarovski SLC new 8x30 roof
- Swarovski EL 8,5x42 as wel as the EL SV (I have not noticed any rolling Brock effect) roof
- Swarovski EL-SV 8x32 roof
- Swarovski SLC-HD 8x42 roof
- Swarovski EL Range 8x42 roof with built-in distance meter
- Tento Russia 8x30 roof
- Zeiss Jena model 1 porro 8x20 (approx 1896)
- Zeiss Jena Marine glass 5 and 10x25 porro 91896)
- Zeiss Jena porro Turmon monocular 8x21 (1921)
- Zeiss Jena 7x50 RLN porro, first civil binocular produced from military binocular design after WW-2 (1944-1945). Was probably used for the design and production of the 7x50 Nedinsco binoculars.
- Zeiss Jena Notarem 8x32 roof
- Zeiss mini roof 6x21 (1971)
- Zeiss Nautic Dialyt 6x42 roof (first binocular with phase correction coating in 1988)
- Zeiss Dialyt 7x42 roof, splendid instrument
- Zeiss Dialyt 8x56 roof, see also Hensoldt Nacht Dialyt 8x56
- Zeiss Victory roof FL 7x42 and 8x42
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Old Sunday 25th November 2012, 13:40   #71
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Gijs, That is a fine list.

Which are the 8 x 30 roof Tentos?
There are Fotons roof 7 x 35 and 8 x 30 Porros.
Do you have a photo of a 8 x 30 roof?

For me there is really only one Wow binocular. The 18 x 50 Canon IS.
But the other would be the Canon 15 x 50 Is.
As optical hand held instruments I know of nothing better in actual use, admitedly for astronomy, but also aircraft and anything unkown in the sky.
Wide field binoculars also can have a Wow factor.
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Old Sunday 25th November 2012, 14:05   #72
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Binastro,
The Tento 8x30 is not a roof but a porro, I made a mistake there.
Yes I know the Fotons and I like them: lightweight, good optics,slightly yellow color reproduction, focussing very smooth. Here you do not see them very often anymore. Do you want a photo of the Foton roofs?
I know the Canon image stabilizers also,they are very convenient with a rock steady image and good image quality, but I decided not to buy one because of their weight. And there was something else: the electrical circuit to steer the image stablising system made a noise with high frequency, which I found not pleasant for my ears. There is one advantage, though: when you grow older you can not hear this frequency anymore, but I have not waited for that to occur.
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Old Sunday 25th November 2012, 14:06   #73
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Nice question about the WOW factor, I thought about it some time and I have the following list (in alphabetical order), but I realise that this list could have many more instruments which yield a WOW experience as I noticed when I walked through the optical museums in Jena and in Oberkochen and I will probably have an even stronger experience when we have the possibility to visit Peter Louwmans new optics museum in The Netherlands in 2013:
- Angenieux 7x30
- Asahi Pentax Marine 6x30 Porro in B&L construction
- Asahi Pentax Papilio 6,5x21 Porro
- Bausch and Lomb (1942-1944) 7x50 porro
- Bleeker Medibu 6x30 porro
- Ednar military (Leica made) 6x42 Porro
- Hartmann Compact 7x35 porro
- Hartmann Compact 8x30 Porro N.B. My impression is that Nikon copied the Hartmann compacts for its original 7x35 and its 8x30 E porro's
- Hensoldt-Wacht 5x35 roof (1905 or 1906)
- Hensoldt Jagd Dialyt 6x36 roof (1910-1918)
- Hensoldt Dialyt roof 8x32
- Hensoldt Nacht Dialyt roof 8x56, later produced by Zeiss as Zeiss Dialyt 8x56
- Kern Armee 6x30 porro from 1934, probably the first binocular with twist up eyecups
- Leitz Fernglass 08 lens binocular 5x40 (so-called Holland glass because of the Dutch inventor of the binoculars Hans Lipperhey. Sometimes one also sees these binoculars named as Galilei binoculars, but Galilei never invented binoculars and he never claimed that). Fernglas 08 was made by many companies and one can only see the difference upon looking to the inscription on it, so one finds Fernglas 08 made by Zeiss, Goerz, Bush, Voigtländer etc.) Very strong instrument and nice to see.
- Leitz Amplivid 6x24 (prism+mirror) with very large FOV
- Leitz Trinovids 7x35B AND 10X40B. Beautiful design and very compact
- Leica Trinovid 8x32BN
- Leica Ultravid HD 8x32
- Leica Ultravid 8x20
- Nedinsco Nedelta 7x50 Porro, extremely sturdy, originally made by Zeiss in Holland
- Nedinsco-Zeiss and Zeiss-Jena Silvamar 6x30 porro. Many many were made mostly under the name of Zeiss. This binocular was in production for many years
- Nikon 8x30 porro FOV 8,5 degrees (first E-model?)
- Nikon 10x70 porro
- Optolyth 12x50 porro very lightweight
- PZO Poland 7x45 porro
- Ross porro-2 7x50
- Sard 7x50 Porro very beautiful to look at and to look through, B&L housing construction
- Swarovski Habicht 8x30 Porro
- Swarovski SLC new 8x30 roof
- Swarovski EL 8,5x42 as wel as the EL SV (I have not noticed any rolling Brock effect) roof
- Swarovski EL-SV 8x32 roof
- Swarovski SLC-HD 8x42 roof
- Swarovski EL Range 8x42 roof with built-in distance meter
- Tento Russia 8x30 roof
- Zeiss Jena model 1 porro 8x20 (approx 1896)
- Zeiss Jena Marine glass 5 and 10x25 porro 91896)
- Zeiss Jena porro Turmon monocular 8x21 (1921)
- Zeiss Jena 7x50 RLN porro, first civil binocular produced from military binocular design after WW-2 (1944-1945). Was probably used for the design and production of the 7x50 Nedinsco binoculars.
- Zeiss Jena Notarem 8x32 roof
- Zeiss mini roof 6x21 (1971)
- Zeiss Nautic Dialyt 6x42 roof (first binocular with phase correction coating in 1988)
- Zeiss Dialyt 7x42 roof, splendid instrument
- Zeiss Dialyt 8x56 roof, see also Hensoldt Nacht Dialyt 8x56
- Zeiss Victory roof FL 7x42 and 8x42
Wow! What a collection. No Nikon 8x30 EII's or Nikon 8x32 SE's though? How are the Leitz Trinovids 7x35B compared to the Leica 8x32 BN's? How about the Leitz Amplivid 6x24. What do you think of the Swarovski Habicht 8x30 Porro.
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Old Sunday 25th November 2012, 14:52   #74
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In The Netherlands and in some other European countries you better not buy Nikon to avoid that you become unhappy for the rest of your life because of the very bad after sales service among others. Another example: I asked more than a week ago the price of the new Nikon SEII and the Nikon SE but the company which imports these binoulars in The Netherlands still could not give me these prices. But there is some more misery: the photoshops in The Netherlands give large discounts on Nikon binoculars, so that the price drops to values lower than the price which binocular stores have to pay as net price, so they can not earn a penny by selling Nikon. Another thing that amazes me is Nikon's choice to produce excellent quality binoculars made in Japan and at the same time producing low quality binoculars made in China. I understand that Nikon employees also have to survive, but this choice does affect its quality reputation in my humble opinion.
The Leitz Trinovid 35B's are much smaller than the Leica 8x32 BN and its optical quality, although good, is not so good as that of the BN Trinovid. Moreover it does not have a phase correction coating yet. The BN Trinovid was very well known for its optical quality, so that is no surprise. But the handling of the 7x35 is really excellent: small, very nice design, fits easily in your hands (also in small ladies hands) and in the pocket of your coat. Although I like the optical quality of the Leica Trinovid BN I appreciate its handling properties a bit less , I get the feeling of carrying a brick in my hands.
The Leitz Amplivid is a very special kind of binocular, because of its construction with a mirror and a prism inside. It is only made for a short time and it is at the moment a collectors item probably. It is a small instrument even smaller than the Leitz 7x35, so you can take it to the theatre without being looked at as being a stranger.
I have investigated the quality of the Habicht 8x30 porro and at first I could not believe what we found. I have had many porro binoculars in my hands, but the image quality of the Habicht is excellent: very sharp image quality, bright and with perfect color reproduction. We measured 95% light transmission, but the latest ones come up to 96%, while the spectrum is flat as the Dutch country side (in the North, the south is more with hills to avoid confusion).
The only disadvantage of the Habicht we found is the somewhat higher turning resistance of the focussing wheel, but that has probably to do with the watertight construction of it. Another advantage of the Habicht is the small weight and its compactness. If I had not been asked to investigate the performance of the Habicht 8x30 I would not make this binocular one of my choices. I simply did not know it was such an excellent instrument.
Gijs
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Old Sunday 25th November 2012, 15:10   #75
Binastro
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: S.England
Posts: 3,185
Dear Gijs,
The Fotons are fine binoculars.
The 5 x 25 is fantastic despite what I read here in an old post. It is actually 5 x 30 but must be vignetted somehow as the Russians are accurate in their specifications.
It has excellent resolution, far better than some other low power binoculars.
The 7 x 35 and 10 x 40 are also very good.
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