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#1 | ||
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Emberizoidea
This was mentioned in another post but deserves its own discussion thread:
Going to Extremes: Contrasting Rates of Diversification in a Recent Radiation of New World Passerine Birds F. Keith Barker, Kevin J. Burns, John Klicka, Scott M. Lanyon and Irby J. Lovette abstract: http://sysbio.oxfordjournals.org.pro...ys094.abstract Proposes splitting this group into 15 families, some of them wholly new: Quote:
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Biological Ramblings Last edited by ntbirdman : Monday 10th December 2012 at 13:54. Reason: typos |
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#2 |
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Discussion of the merits of this kind of family-level splitting probably belongs back in this current thread: http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=246207
I'll just say its good to finally see this work published, and finally see where a lot of these enigmatic taxa things fall out, regardless of taxonomic rank. I'll see if I can post a tree of the relationships later.
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Biological Ramblings |
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Wow. Thanks for the summary, Nick. Very timely/topical!
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Quote:
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Niels
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#5 | |
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Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/fugl/ ". . .Let them be left, O let them be left, wildness and wet; Long live the weeds and the wilderness yet." --Gerard Manley Hopkins Last edited by fugl : Monday 10th December 2012 at 14:39. |
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#6 | |
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Quote:
www.nhm.ac.uk/hosted-sites/iczn/code Last edited by Richard Klim : Monday 10th December 2012 at 14:42. |
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#7 |
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Do they list any divergence dates? I'm curious to what degree this may be a matter of 'we can't overturn tradition by lumping, so we'll do it by splitting all over the place instead', vs. 'these clades diverged so long ago we can't see lumping them & thus obscuring such ancient lineages'.
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#8 |
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Snapdragyn, I think this bit of their "taxonomic justification" may provide the answer.
"One possible treatment for the group under consideration would be to rank it as a family (the Emberizidae), and to rank lineages within it as subfamilies; however, to do so would overturn more than a century of taxonomic practice". Can't believe they missed Saltatoridae and Seiuridae ![]() Last edited by andrew147 : Monday 10th December 2012 at 19:05. |
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#9 |
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Oh, I did see that - hence my comment that they seem to have no problem overturning tradition by splitting, just not by lumping (even when the latter would require less overall change to 'traditional' classification). I'm just wondering if there's an additional justification not mentioned in the excerpt above.
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#10 |
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Some of those oddball taxa have been frequently debated in the past, and have jumped families numerous times (Zeledonia, Yellow-breasted Chat).
I know as an American birder, I don't see any proposal that would result in loss of Parulidae and other familiar groups going over so well. The original version of this (which I saw at AOU) had Yellow-breasted Chat as sister to Icteridae, and they just lumped it into that family. Would certainly make things easier :P
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#11 |
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The family names Icteridae and Icteriidae are not homonyms and are valid under the ICZN (art. 55.4) (altho' to calm down those who don't know their Crax from their Crex the case could be referred to the Commission for a ruling, e.g. to replace Icteriidae with another name). Similarly, the genera Icterus and Icteria are not homonyms (art.56.2). Specific names are now more rigorously controlled (e.g. nigricinctus and nigrocinctus are deemed homonyms) (art. 58).
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#12 |
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There are some viable taxonomic treatments in between the extremes of lumping everything into Emberizidae or accepting all of the authors' splits.
For example, Cardinalidae and Thraupidae form a highly supported (100% bootstrap) clade with "Mitrospingidae". Why not lump them into a single family? So many genera have been shuffled between these families already that it seems pointless to continue to treat them as distinct, and it would avoid creating a new family based solely on molecular "apomorphies". Calyptophilus could be wedged in there too, although the support for that is much weaker. Similarly, Icteria and the Icteriidae form a highly supported clade (again 100% bootstrap) as Mysticete mentioned. Although the chat doesn't much look like a typical blackbird, icterids are already relatively heterogenous and I could see lumping them being a viable option. This would also prevent the hassles of counting "I"s. |
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#13 | |
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#14 |
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"One possible treatment for the group under consideration would be to rank it as a family (the Emberizidae), and to rank lineages within it as subfamilies; however, to do so would overturn more than a century of taxonomic practice".
Hardly a "century" -- the AOU had a giant Emberizidae family (with subfamilies Parulinae, Coerebinae, Thraupinae, Cardinalinae, Emberizinae, and Icterinae) which they only split in 1998 with the 7th edition. Last edited by Paul Clapham : Tuesday 11th December 2012 at 03:16. Reason: Fix line endings |
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#15 |
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My understanding however that the big Emerizidae "Lump" it itself fairly recent (80's?), so there is probably less historic inertia for keeping them together.
At this point, any proposal to "merge" Cardinalidae and Thraupidae is probably too late. That proposal should have come before Piranga and kind was moved. Merging the two families (or merging a bunch of them) would reverse a good chunk of taxonomic changes SACC and NACC have completed in the last decade. Note that most of these results would have already been known by AOU committee members. I in fact saw the talk that outlined most of these taxonomic changes by the authors something like 6 years ago at the Wyoming AOU meeting.
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#16 |
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Also, from reading the paper, I think Icteriidae was kept out because, despite sampling a but load of genes, Where Icteriidae fell out varied considerably based on the genes used and the method of analysis. I suspect Icteriidae was created because of that uncertainty. In the AOU talk from 6 years ago that I saw, the initial idea was to "lump" Icteriidae into Icteridae.
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#17 | |
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#18 |
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It certainly isn't "too late" for lumping the Cardinalidae and Thraupidae. My understanding is that a sister relation between the two was not strongly supported at the time of the previous moves, while it is now. Previous classifications also didn't involve creating a new family based on molecular characters alone, and I hope doing so would be a concern to committee members.
I think the variable position of Icteria (and indeed all of the new "families" in the parulid-icterid clade) is a concern, but the evidence from the concatenated dataset is as strong as that for many previous changes. I personally don't mind monotypic families, but for those who dislike the extensive splitting of this study this is certainly somewhere to look. |
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#19 |
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Michael L. P. Retter
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Icteria is listed above in both Icteriidae and Icteridae. Which does the paper propose?
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#20 |
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Icteria
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#21 | |
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#22 | |
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#23 |
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I can't think of a good reason for splitting Old World Buntings and New World Sparrows. Buntings differ from each other at least as much as any of them differ from NW sparrows. So a Yellowhammer and Rock Bunting would be in the same family, but Rock Bunting and White-crowned Sparrow in different families?
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#24 |
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fbarker, welcome to birdforum!
Niels
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#25 | |
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Quote:
However, taxonomies are tools that gain at least some of their usefulness from stability. From that perspective, it makes sense to keep recognizing the five families New World ornithologists have been using for many decades, and rearrange the rest to fit, as done here. |
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