Join for FREE
It only takes a minute!
Magnifying the passion for nature. Zeiss Victory Harpia 95. New!

Welcome to BirdForum.
BirdForum is the net's largest birding community, dedicated to wild birds and birding, and is absolutely FREE! You are most welcome to register for an account, which allows you to take part in lively discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 28 votes, 5.00 average.
Old Monday 13th January 2014, 02:10   #101
bluedubius
Rick

 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northeast Tennessee
Posts: 534
Celestron Regal 100 F-ED and Nikon V1

Here's one taken this morning at 100m (as measured by Google Earth) with the Celestron Regal 100 F-ED, Baader 17mm Hyperion Eyepiece, Nikon V1 with Nikon 28mm f/3.5 lens. That's around 2400mm eq. focal length. Not bad for a $700 scope.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	vulture_8270.jpg
Views:	388
Size:	226.1 KB
ID:	479636  
bluedubius is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 13th January 2014, 03:46   #102
lee pseudogrammaton
Registered User

 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Tallahassee, Florida, USA
Posts: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedubius View Post
Just for the heck of it and to get double duty out of my Nikon V1 I use for digiscoping, I decided to test out the V1 with an old Nikkor 400mm f/3.5 manual focus lens with a matched Nikon TC-301 2X teleconverter. This put me out to around 2160 mm FOV with this rig. It turns out to work pretty well. Here's an example of a Belted Kingfisher I took with this combo. I still digiscope, but good results at this focal length and the light-gathering capacity and resolution of this rig is impressive.

Rick
That's a very fine shot of a Belted Kingfisher (tough subjects!). I'm very impressed with the resolution of the shot, it speaks well to both the 2x TC as well as the 400mm lens. 800mm is some reach, but you still had to be hiding somewhere closeby to pick up that Kingfisher!

Just so you know, technically speaking, you're only reaching 800mm f.l. with the 2x TC. I know, you did qualify it with "FOV," but the gain suggested by the "crop multiple" is a somewhat spurious -- not b/c you don't gain something by using a full format lens on a crop sensor, but b/c the technology is doing something that's not immediately apparent.

The reason crop bodies are affording some extra "resolution reach" is twofold: Photosite density & lens sweet spot.

The Nikon V's Cx sensor (a 2.4 crop Aptina) has 3.4 micron photosites (same as the 24MP Sony sensor in the D3200 & D5200). Having photosites that finely packed enables the sensor to resolve some very fine details from top-notch lenses. And it just so happens that your Nikkor 400 is an excellent lens & is sufficiently sharp to serve the sensor's 3.4u pixel pitch resolution. Even with a 2x TC, which understandably is going to soften the image by the same factor, that lens is still rendering fine on the 2.4x Cx crop sensor.

Here's something else surprising about using larger-format lenses on a crop medium: By only using the sharpest, brightest & contrast-iest part of the lens' image, you may even be gaining a half stop (or more) of brightness over the rated aperture of the 400mm. Since the 400mm Nikkor is very sharp in the center, and you are cropping at 2.4x, you are taking the absolute sharpest center of the image circle & projecting it on that Cx sensor's closely packed photosites.

The crop sensor is effectively *upscaling* the highly resolving center of the lens' image circle by token of its finer pixel pitch (about 1.4x finer than a full frame sensor's 4.9u pixel pitch).

I'm seeing a similar level of gain in relative brightness using medium-format long lenses on a D3200 ... the crop factor from 645-format film to a Dx sensor is 2.5x (close to your Cx sensor's 2.4x).

OK, so, since the Cx sensor's crop is 2.4x, 800 x 2.4 ='s 1920mm FOV. But at what point will the absolute resolution fall below this very simple metric: Lenses resolving to 55 lines/mm qualify as sharp (l/mm is the old school metric, new being line pairs/mm or 27.5 lp/mm). It would appear that your 400mm resolves a very sharp image in the dead center, somewhere in the neighborhood of 83 lines/mm (if you can crop to 150% & still look sharp), or perhaps 110 lines/mm (if you can pull off 200% crops).

The point being that a lesser lens will not lend as well to the resolving power of the crop sensor's 3.4u (micron) pixel pitch, and so the functional *gain* will be lowered. A superb lens might allow for deeper crop in post-processing (say, 200% crop), while a decent lens might only afford 150% crop. A 3rd-rate lens will drive you nuts if viewing 24MP images on Flikr, but it'll be OK if printed on 3x5 glossy, but at a 50% crop (or -66% crop ) .

So if 150% crops are coming out OK from the 800mm effective focal length, then your effective reach is 1200mm. If 200% crops, then 1600mm (tack sharp). If a mediocre lens were used (say a Samyang 100-500/5.6 zoom full of fungus like the mushroom bazooka I got for $20 at a yard sale) then the effective crop is going to be 50% (it won't look sharp unless I shrink the image .. in other words, the effective reach reduced by a soft lens (well, we knew this...)

Last edited by lee pseudogrammaton : Monday 13th January 2014 at 04:15. Reason: further clarification...
lee pseudogrammaton is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 13th January 2014, 14:42   #103
Neil
Registered User

 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Hong Kong (ex Sydney)
Posts: 10,173
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedubius View Post
Here's one taken this morning at 100m (as measured by Google Earth) with the Celestron Regal 100 F-ED, Baader 17mm Hyperion Eyepiece, Nikon V1 with Nikon 28mm f/3.5 lens. That's around 2400mm eq. focal length. Not bad for a $700 scope.
Not bad at all.
Neil
Neil is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 13th January 2014, 18:22   #104
janvangastel
Registered User
 
janvangastel's Avatar

 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Huizen
Posts: 294
Despite the long distance, nice detail in the head of the bird Rick.
janvangastel is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2013 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Tuesday 14th January 2014, 07:50   #105
janvangastel
Registered User
 
janvangastel's Avatar

 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Huizen
Posts: 294
Buzzard at 174 meters

A couple of days ago, I digiscoped this Buzzard. Distance measured with Google maps. Not very detailed at this distance, but I am still happy with it. Taken with Panasonic DMC G3 camera with 30 mm Sigma lens, Swarovski ATM 80HD and DCB adapter. Total magnification 60 x.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	10_jan14.jpg
Views:	465
Size:	76.8 KB
ID:	479763  
janvangastel is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2013 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Wednesday 15th January 2014, 23:07   #106
Neil
Registered User

 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Hong Kong (ex Sydney)
Posts: 10,173
Quote:
Originally Posted by janvangastel View Post
A couple of days ago, I digiscoped this Buzzard. Distance measured with Google maps. Not very detailed at this distance, but I am still happy with it. Taken with Panasonic DMC G3 camera with 30 mm Sigma lens, Swarovski ATM 80HD and DCB adapter. Total magnification 60 x.
Looks ok at that distance. Did you use AF or manually focus?
Neil.
Neil is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 16th January 2014, 08:01   #107
janvangastel
Registered User
 
janvangastel's Avatar

 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Huizen
Posts: 294
I used manual focus. AF doesn't work well a large distances with my camera.
janvangastel is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2013 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Thursday 16th January 2014, 13:45   #108
Neil
Registered User

 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Hong Kong (ex Sydney)
Posts: 10,173
I cranked the eyepiece up to 70x for this closeup from about 50 meters
Neil

Sony RX 100 M2 and STX 95 mm Scope and DCB 11 Adapter
Mai Po Nature Reserve,
Hong Kong,China
January 2014
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	great egret 70x rx100M2 stx95 _DSC9694.jpg
Views:	393
Size:	126.2 KB
ID:	479993  
Neil is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 17th January 2014, 08:58   #109
janvangastel
Registered User
 
janvangastel's Avatar

 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Huizen
Posts: 294
Nice, sharp image Neil!
janvangastel is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2013 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Friday 17th January 2014, 17:38   #110
bluedubius
Rick

 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northeast Tennessee
Posts: 534
Common Loon
Celestron Regal 100 F-ED, Baader Hyperion 17mm eyepiece, Nikon D40 with Nikon 28mm f/3.5 lens. Not really extreme in focal length, just in distance.
Google earth measures at 170 meters
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	loon_27.jpg
Views:	346
Size:	233.7 KB
ID:	480106  

Last edited by bluedubius : Friday 17th January 2014 at 21:28.
bluedubius is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Sunday 19th January 2014, 01:38   #111
Neil
Registered User

 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Hong Kong (ex Sydney)
Posts: 10,173
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedubius View Post
Common Loon
Celestron Regal 100 F-ED, Baader Hyperion 17mm eyepiece, Nikon D40 with Nikon 28mm f/3.5 lens. Not really extreme in focal length, just in distance.
Google earth measures at 170 meters
Not bad at that distance.
Neil.
Neil is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Sunday 9th February 2014, 20:10   #112
Neil
Registered User

 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Hong Kong (ex Sydney)
Posts: 10,173
Not a great deal of action out in the wetlands on Friday so I was pleased when this osprey dropped in to have a drink and a splash. Distance was about 280 meters so I cranked up the eyepiece to 70x. I had taken my big Benro tripod so more stable than my usual light weight setup. Magnification about 4,000 mm
https://vimeo.com/86239028
Neil
Sony RX 100 M2 and Swarovski STX 95 (70x) and DCB 11 Adapter
Neil is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 10th February 2014, 07:42   #113
janvangastel
Registered User
 
janvangastel's Avatar

 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Huizen
Posts: 294
Very nice at this large distance Neil!
janvangastel is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2013 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Tuesday 11th February 2014, 02:41   #114
Marcobf
Registered User

 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Somerset
Posts: 154
Brilliant, really enjoyed that
Marcobf is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Sunday 6th April 2014, 08:50   #115
Neil
Registered User

 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Hong Kong (ex Sydney)
Posts: 10,173
Not at extreme distance but in extreme weather. Thunderstorms all day kept all the birds hunkered down. This was about 140 meters and about 60x on the zoom.
https://vimeo.com/91143113

Neil

Sony RX100 M2 and Swarovski STX 95 mm Scope and DCB 11 adapter
Mai Po Nature Reserve,
Hong Kong,China
2nd April 2014
Neil is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 10th April 2014, 17:42   #116
rrepp
Registered User

 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Huntington Beach Ca
Posts: 13
Combination

I've got a Nikon 82ed fieldscope, and the FSA 1 adapter. I'm wondering if this would work with a Nikon 1 camera with FT-1 adapter, and what would the magnification be? Thanks for your time.

Bob
rrepp is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 10th April 2014, 21:33   #117
Marcobf
Registered User

 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Somerset
Posts: 154
Do you mean you have the FSA-L1 adapter?

The FSA-1 is part of a kit like this http://tinyurl.com/pqysmrr

With this kit you can connect your Nikon 1 to the ED82 without an FT-1 (or an FSA-L1)
Marcobf is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 11th April 2014, 06:01   #118
rrepp
Registered User

 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Huntington Beach Ca
Posts: 13
Marco
Correct. I have the FSA-L1 adapter. And 82mm fieldscope. I also have Nikon V1 camera. I thought with FT-1 adapter on V1 it would connect to FSA-L1 and wondered what I'd have for power through 82mm scope. If Im correct in my thinking that it would all connect
rrepp is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 11th April 2014, 13:15   #119
Marcobf
Registered User

 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Somerset
Posts: 154
OK, well with the ED82 and FSA-L1 you get 1000mm x sensor multiplier so with a DX camera it's 1500mm and with a Nikon 1 it's 2700mm

Have fun
Marcobf is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 14th April 2014, 18:57   #120
Tord
Registered User
 
Tord's Avatar

 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Malmö, Sweden
Posts: 1,985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcobf View Post
OK, well with the ED82 and FSA-L1 you get 1000mm x sensor multiplier so with a DX camera it's 1500mm and with a Nikon 1 it's 2700mm

Have fun
No it's not. The focal length is not changing. The angle of view is.
__________________

My Gallery on 500px
Tord is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Tuesday 15th April 2014, 12:17   #121
Marcobf
Registered User

 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Somerset
Posts: 154
I realize that the actual focal length doesn't change, but the perceived one does, right? I mean...the reach, as an alternative to cropping later on

I'm trying to understand this stuff and pass on what I've read to help someone else. Have I totally misunderstood or are you indulging in a little pedantry/semantics?
Marcobf is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 16th April 2014, 06:55   #122
janvangastel
Registered User
 
janvangastel's Avatar

 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Huizen
Posts: 294
The angle of view changes and so the magnification changes. By multipying magnification with 50 you get the 35 mm equivalent tele length. So yes, the focal length does not change, but the system acts as if it did.
janvangastel is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2013 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Wednesday 16th April 2014, 13:06   #123
Marcobf
Registered User

 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Somerset
Posts: 154
Thanks :)
Marcobf is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 3rd May 2014, 07:56   #124
Neil
Registered User

 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Hong Kong (ex Sydney)
Posts: 10,173
I wanted to use the Panasonic ETC (Electronic Teleconverter Mode) on the Kowa Lens/scope . Not technically Digiscoping but a good way to get "way out there".
I was using the Kowa 500/5.6 and 850/9.6 modules. The ETC function gives 2.4x magnification when in the 25p.
This video clip of the Pacific Golden Plovers was out at the equivalent of 4,080 mm. The birds were about 80 meters out.
https://vimeo.com/93706249
Neil.
Panasonic GH3 and Kowa Lens/scope 850/9.6 module

Mai Po Nature Reserve,
Hong Kong,China.
2nd May 2014
Neil is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Sunday 4th May 2014, 04:25   #125
wedejaz
Paukštukas
 
wedejaz's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Saulėta Šilutė, Lithuania
Posts: 77
Nice video Neil 4000+ mm is quite a reach.
wedejaz is offline  
Reply With Quote
Advertisement
Reply


Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Extreme digiscoping at 150 magnification. Best settings Fuji F31? Bourouba Digiscoping cameras 4 Thursday 29th March 2007 01:07
The flying family - extreme digiscoping yossi The Birdforum Digiscoping Forum 10 Tuesday 22nd August 2006 16:53
Extreme digiscoping - not only for birds... yossi Photography using 'Astro' telescopes 8 Friday 19th May 2006 01:06
B.F. extreme N.E.W.S. very boring banned member Say Hello 21 Saturday 4th December 2004 16:23
Digiscoping with Canon 300d extreme example redshift Digiscoping cameras 2 Saturday 3rd April 2004 22:39

{googleads}

Fatbirder's Top 1000 Birding Websites

Help support BirdForum

Page generated in 0.22708607 seconds with 35 queries
All times are GMT. The time now is 08:08.