[Brenty]

It might be that I'm just getting old but has anybody else noticed that bird reserves are being invaded by increasing numbers of out of control children. I was at Martin Mere in Lancashire yesterday where each hide was systematically invaded by groups kids running in and out shouting and being generally disruptive whilst their parent smiled and looked helpless.

I know that children are the birdwatchers of tommorrow and we need to nuture their interest but I get the impression that reserves are becoming just another destination to dump kids that their parents don't want and can't control.

What do you think?

[James]

Yep you're right - you are getting older.
Do you enjoy (as I do!) Grumpy Old Men on the TV?

James

[KCFoggin]

Hello Brenty and on behalf of the staff here at BirdForum, a warm welcome to you.

[Brenty]

Originally Posted by James

Yep you're right - you are getting older.
Do you enjoy (as I do!) Grumpy Old Men on the TV?

James

Yes I do like Grumpy old men and I thought that Victor Meldrew had a point.

However I do think that things are being trivialised and dumbed down to the lowest common denominator so that we can accomodate everybody. I know this brings in much needed revenue for reserves that don't look after themselves but do we really have to have adventure playgrounds on reserves?

[desgreene]

Originally Posted by Brenty

Yes I do like Grumpy old men and I thought that Victor Meldrew had a point.

However I do think that things are being trivialised and dumbed down to the lowest common denominator so that we can accomodate everybody. I know this brings in much needed revenue for reserves that don't look after themselves but do we really have to have adventure playgrounds on reserves?

But just think what the hides at Martin Mere would be like if they didn't have the adventure playground!

Also, welcome to BF Brenty.

Des.

[James]

Hi Brenty

Just seen you are new to posting here. Sorry I don't normally jokingly insult people till at least their 100th post!!!

You are right, of course, we are being dumbed down. I think Martin Mere is an exception but at least the kids (mostly) stay in the half where the plastic ducks are.

james

[Benjismum]

Originally Posted by Brenty

do we really have to have adventure playgrounds on reserves?

Don't know whether they are needed but they are certainly enjoyed. My kids recently visited Old Moor reserve, they weren't allowed to run or shout and the birders there were very helpful in pointing things out to the kids, so we weren't made to feel unwelcome. Consequently the kids want to go again, especially as they were allowed in the play area at the end as a reward for good and quiet behaviour on the reserve.

I think anything that makes birding more family friendly has to be a good thing, otherwise, people like me (who usually have to have the kids with them) wouldn't be able to go.

[Marmot]

Hi Brenty,

Welcome to Birdforum.

I couldn't agree more. Yes they may be tomorrows birders but they should be at least told by their parents how to behave in such an area - a be quiet other people are watching or you will frighten the birds would suffice, but no they don't seem to think this is necessary.

This has happened a few times at Low Barns, Co.Durham- when you get some children with parents in the upstairs hide (you are sat downstairs with scopes and binos watching the resident Kingfishers of visting Bittern- winter) when they start running from one end of the hide to the other,kicking the sides of the hide while sat on the seat and then shouting at the top of their voices "Whats that" and are then given an answer just as loud by the parent and most of the time it is wrong!!

[Reader]

Hi Brenty,

And a very welcome to Birdforum.

All reserves that are WWT and similar are totally family orientated to families and when visiting such reserves one should take that into account. The only way to get around this is to visit mid-week or at the latter part of the day when the families tend to thin out. I don't think you will ever get away with anything different, and I don't think we really want to change that format.

If for every 100 children we get through the gates we manage to get one child hooked on birdwatching / wildlife then to me that is a success.

There are so many places that birdwatchers can go where you can really get away from people that we can't really complain about the few reserves (and they are only a few when compared to the vastness of the British Isles) that cater for families and all their inherent problems.

[Linda Jay]

Hi Brenty, and welcome to BF!

I'm pleased to be able to tell you that at least two kids who visit Martin Mere on a regular basis respect both the birds and the human visitors. They are mine! I've been taking them there since they were tiny (they're now 12 and 10) and I've never let them run riot - well, except in the playground, and even there they have to respect the other kids, or there's trouble!

I do agree that too many children are allowed to do exactly as they please by their parents. My two never went into a hide until they were old enough to understand about being quiet so as not to frighten the birds - until then we stuck to the paths, and concentrated on feeding the birds in the collection and learning a bit about them from the "Discovery Trails" etc.

Ooh, I hope I don't sound too smug there!

[Nightranger]

We have discussed this subject on a separate thread and I think the ones that need 'educating' are the parents. I find it difficult to criticise children for being children and not knowing any different and they cannot possibly know when they are told. Yet, I can imagine the response you would get if you took on that responsibility in a hide. I have nothing against play areas although the RSPB tends not to do this on a wide basis because we have children's events anyway that are specifically geared towards wildlife. At the same time, I can see what is meant by dumbed down wildlife when children are being directed away from the object of the visit in the first place. The WWT are very good at providing a zoo-like atmosphere at their reserves and it is simply a different approach that mostly, works well. There probably is no definitive answer to this subject and I try to be as philosophical as possible when it happens. I sometimes try to engage the kids myself (if there is anything in view) but then again, I will do that anyway if there are only adults present.

[Edward woodwood]

children are great

they see things in much more clarity than adults and their honesty is always refreshing

given the behaviour of some adult 'birders' lately I hope the kids get hooked sooner rather than later...

a good maxim in life is 'talk to children as if they are adults and talk to adults as if they are children'

slight regards....
Timmo

[Elizabeth Bigg]

We went to Pulborough Brooks on Saturday, and as we passed the "please be quiet" notice, could hear quite a hubbub before we even opened the door. It was an organised group, whose leader did not bother to tell them to keep their voices down. Fortunately they did not stay long after we arrived (they had to get back to the Centre for lunch), which was just as well, as we had to stand behind them - talk about no room at the inn!! However, their leader did point out the wood duck to us, so we gained something we might otherwise have missed - it was fairly well concealed by group of mallards, just stretching up among them occasionally.

On the whole the children we met were pretty good - but why on earth does someone take a baby of around 6-8 months into a hide, and expect it to be quiet. Saying shush to it is useless!

[salty]

hello, welcome to bird forum!

[cjay]

Unfortunatly RSPB reserves are becomimg very Zoo like with lists on the windows of the visitors centre of all the birds you can see. I rarley visit such reserves nowadays as as I like the challenge of finding my own birds & not relocating other peoples. It somehow takes away the expectancy of birding.

It seems the RSPB wants to make reserves more family orientated thus ignoring the serious birders who need peace & quiete.

My friend was birding at Cley (Not RSPB) one day when a Common Redshank dropped in. A chap said "Spotted Redshank" my friend repiled "Its a common Redshank" "No it is not!" exclaimed the man. "Spotted Redshank is on the board". "Common Redshank is not!"

[Steven Astley]

hi brenty. martin mere and leighton moss are great. i wouldn't like leighton moss to be like martin mere. i wouldnt like martin mere to be like leighton moss. go to an rspb reserve instead their more quieter

[Cuckoo-shrike]

Originally Posted by Tim Allwood

given the behaviour of some adult 'birders' lately I hope the kids get hooked sooner rather than later...

a good maxim in life is 'talk to children as if they are adults and talk to adults as if they are children'

slight regards....
Timmo

On the topical subject of behaviour, I think that Birdwatching magazine has a lot to answer for. It imbued a whole new generation of "birders" with the mentality of a bus-load of Leeds Utd* supporters. Turned them into instant twitchers. Talk about dumbing down!
*insert the name of the team you hate
Andy

[walwyn]

Originally Posted by Brenty

but do we really have to have adventure playgrounds on reserves?

Only if they provide stocks and a thrashing stool too.

[Johnny1]

Hi Brenty, I'm not sure if you realised last week was "half term" here, that is all the schools were on holliday. Whenever the schools are on holliday I get to Martin Mere for opening time and leave before lunch. You will find that usually it's nice and quiet then as the noisy ones usually only arrive around lunch time.

[nickwarn37]

Originally Posted by Brenty

I know that children are the birdwatchers of tommorrow and we need to nuture their interest but I get the impression that reserves are becoming just another destination to dump kids that their parents don't want and can't control.

What do you think?

Hi Brenty, I think it's all about respect. I took my 2 year old to the WWT Slimbridge reserve. He loved it , feeding the ducks and playing on with the displays. But and here's the Respect bit I didn't go in to any of the hides purely out of respect for my fellow birders. Adults, who take their kids in to hide knowing they could be disturbing, need the to be educated.
But hey, thats life.....we have to live together....or something like that!!

[christineredgate]

Hi,Brenty welcome to BF.If children are all you have to contend with you are lucky.When the South Lakes RSPB group visited our hide here at Hodbarrow last year,a young couple entered with a baby in a pram and proceeded to sit in the far corner smoking pot!!.

I thought it was quite funny,as everyones nostrils were twitching and no one was quite sure what was happening,with the exception of your truly.The couple are well known addicts.They left after finishing their joints,and politely said "bye ,bye birdies!!"

[Karl J]

Originally Posted by nickwarn37

... we have to live together...

think that just about sums it up ... a bit of tolerance etc