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Old Thursday 31st October 2013, 18:49   #51
njlarsen
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DPReview just finished reviewing Canon D70. EM1 got one point higher score and for example was better in AF and Metering accuracy.

Niels
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Old Saturday 2nd November 2013, 23:36   #52
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I tried the E-M1 with my 50-200 SWD and EC-14 converter for the first time today and spent about half-an-hour photographing the House Sparrows on my garden fence.

The lens focuses quickly, although it is not quite as lightning-fast at the M4/3 75-300. Once it has established a focus it is usually accurate. Looking at the shots which I took it is important to focus on the bird's bill or eyes, as the DOF is so shallow. It has the advantage over the 75-300 that it is splash proof, like the camera, and the maximum aperture at full zoom is 4.9 rather than 6.7 on the 75-300 SWD. However it is much heavier to carry about all day and is much bigger and less discreet.

These are JPEGs, straight from the camera, just cropped and resized for web use.

Ron
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Old Sunday 3rd November 2013, 01:17   #53
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Lovely shots! Now for the 300mm f4 prime micro 4/3 lens!
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Old Sunday 3rd November 2013, 02:34   #54
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Lovely shots! Now for the 300mm f4 prime micro 4/3 lens!
I am still not convinced that is the lens I really want. How about a 150-450 mm? I would be fine with it maxing out at f5.6 so that it wouldn't be quite as heavy as the 50-200 Ron was playing with. [or maybe it would, I am no expert on that type of calculations ...]

Nice shots by the way

Niels
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Old Sunday 3rd November 2013, 08:43   #55
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Originally Posted by njlarsen View Post
I am still not convinced that is the lens I really want. How about a 150-450 mm? I would be fine with it maxing out at f5.6 so that it wouldn't be quite as heavy as the 50-200 Ron was playing with. [or maybe it would, I am no expert on that type of calculations ...]



Niels
One of the main criticisms of the original 4/3rds system was that the small size of the sensor hadn't really produced a more compact system to match. I do hope that Olympus won't make the same mistake again with the micro 4/3rds system. The E-M1 is already starting to catch up with the lighter APS-C bodies - though the E-M5 is a little small for larger hands - so they must stick to the small sizes for the lens line-up.

A 350mm F6.3 (+ optional dedicated 1.4x converter) with close focussing around 1m, collapsible for carrying around, with a tripod socket and a decent lenshood included weighing in under 500gms would be useful (there's always the big 4/3rds 300mm F2.8 for anyone who wants a fast aperture 'monster' to stand next to the big boys with their 500/600mm F4s!).
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Old Tuesday 5th November 2013, 02:10   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoSpringChicken View Post
I tried the E-M1 with my 50-200 SWD and EC-14 converter for the first time today and spent about half-an-hour photographing the House Sparrows on my garden fence.

The lens focuses quickly, although it is not quite as lightning-fast at the M4/3 75-300. Once it has established a focus it is usually accurate. Looking at the shots which I took it is important to focus on the bird's bill or eyes, as the DOF is so shallow. It has the advantage over the 75-300 that it is splash proof, like the camera, and the maximum aperture at full zoom is 4.9 rather than 6.7 on the 75-300 SWD. However it is much heavier to carry about all day and is much bigger and less discreet.

These are JPEGs, straight from the camera, just cropped and resized for web use.

Ron

Ron,

The EM-1 looks very interesting to me. I am curious to know how it performs in two areas:

1) photos of birds in flight, and

2) fill-flash in open sunlight

Have you had a chance to experiment with either of these functions?

Thanks,
Jonathan
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Old Tuesday 5th November 2013, 07:43   #57
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I would also like a 350mm f5.6 or a 200-400mm f5.6.
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Old Tuesday 5th November 2013, 09:23   #58
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Ron,

The EM-1 looks very interesting to me. I am curious to know how it performs in two areas:

1) photos of birds in flight, and

2) fill-flash in open sunlight

Have you had a chance to experiment with either of these functions?

Thanks,
Jonathan
Hi Jonathan. I haven't really tried photographing birds in flight yet, as I haven't been able to get out much recently. From what I have gleaned from the Olympus E-System forum, the Continuous AF is better than the E-M5 but not quite as good as the Canon 7D. The best results seem to come from using Single AF and continually half pressing the shutter button to keep the bird in focus before taking the shot. The focusing with M4/3 lenses is so fast that this should work well.

The E-M1 doesn't have a built-in flash but comes with a separate small flash unit. Once again I haven't really had a chance to use it yet. Sorry I can't be more helpful.

Ron
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Old Tuesday 5th November 2013, 17:47   #59
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Hi Jonathan. I haven't really tried photographing birds in flight yet, as I haven't been able to get out much recently. From what I have gleaned from the Olympus E-System forum, the Continuous AF is better than the E-M5 but not quite as good as the Canon 7D. The best results seem to come from using Single AF and continually half pressing the shutter button to keep the bird in focus before taking the shot. The focusing with M4/3 lenses is so fast that this should work well.

The E-M1 doesn't have a built-in flash but comes with a separate small flash unit. Once again I haven't really had a chance to use it yet. Sorry I can't be more helpful.

Ron
Thanks, Ron. I'll explore some of the comments in that forum. Do post some BIF shots if/when you have a chance. I have been using G3 with 100-300 for two years. BIF photos have been mixed, but this is a great crossover combo for birds and insects, and I often carry it on long hikes, when the compact size and light weight are ideal.

Jonathan
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Old Tuesday 5th November 2013, 19:32   #60
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again those are really wonderful shots.

about the IBIS i find it very little effect with my Lumix both with the EPL1 and the EPL5, but they say that the new Olympus 75-300mm is much more improved also for video recording.

my Lumix is dying and is giving me hard time now, it just freezes and would not focus at all, even when i turn it to MF also from the camera. and then after a while that could be few mints or even half an hour it get back to working normally, that is so frustrating in many times.

glad you showed those pictures with the Oly, as i was looking for any gallery in flicker or google+ for any bird fotographer who use it. because i need to replace the Lumix.

another question what is the lowest ISO value in the OM D1.
Hi Doux and others
I've only just come across this thread (I think I must have been half asleep recently!). Anyway, Doux, I was interested to hear your Panasonic 100-300mm is dying. I have had 2 100-300mm lenses and both have developed the same problem - dust inside the lens barrel, which ultimately effects the focusing system. Panasonic replaced the first one under warranty and are saying they won't replace this second lens (only 1 year old) because it's just over 2 years since the original purchase. Essentially, there seems to be some weakness in the lens barrel seals, which, in my experience, breakdown over time. Anyway, I am now looking to replace/upgrade my system.

The new Olympus looks very appealing, Ron. Am I right in thinking you could use a Canon 300mm f4 prime on it with an adapter? Would the AF still work?

Also, Doux, it's good to hear the Olympus 75-300mm m4/3 is better these days as I may well go for that. I cannot afford another Panasonic 100-300mm which only lasts 8 months.

Hobbes
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Old Tuesday 5th November 2013, 20:40   #61
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I have had 2 100-300mm lenses and both have developed the same problem
Sorry to hear that. Scary that you have those problems, I am knocking on wood that my 100-300 will keep on going.

Anyway, I only thought that the canon could be used in MF mode, so would be interested to hear anything contrary to that.

Niels
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Old Tuesday 5th November 2013, 20:49   #62
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Sorry to hear that. Scary that you have those problems, I am knocking on wood that my 100-300 will keep on going.
Hi Niels, I'm glad yours is still going strong. Maybe I was just unlucky.

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Anyway, I only thought that the canon could be used in MF mode, so would be interested to hear anything contrary to that.

Niels
Ah, you may well be right, Niels. The problem I keep having is finding either the body I like or the lens I like but they never match up, lol.

Hobbes
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Old Tuesday 5th November 2013, 22:29   #63
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Hi Doux and others
I've only just come across this thread (I think I must have been half asleep recently!). Anyway, Doux, I was interested to hear your Panasonic 100-300mm is dying. I have had 2 100-300mm lenses and both have developed the same problem - dust inside the lens barrel, which ultimately effects the focusing system. Panasonic replaced the first one under warranty and are saying they won't replace this second lens (only 1 year old) because it's just over 2 years since the original purchase. Essentially, there seems to be some weakness in the lens barrel seals, which, in my experience, breakdown over time. Anyway, I am now looking to replace/upgrade my system.

The new Olympus looks very appealing, Ron. Am I right in thinking you could use a Canon 300mm f4 prime on it with an adapter? Would the AF still work?

Also, Doux, it's good to hear the Olympus 75-300mm m4/3 is better these days as I may well go for that. I cannot afford another Panasonic 100-300mm which only lasts 8 months.

Hobbes

I'm not too thrilled to learn of dying 100-300 lenses. I noticed dust inside mine very soon after I started using it, and I have kept it and my D3 in a ziploc freezer bag constantly ever since. Dust accumulation has slowed quite a bit, but it still sucks some in. I guess I have to join the ranks of those clamoring for an environmentally sealed 300ish prime 4/3 lens.
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Old Wednesday 6th November 2013, 01:58   #64
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One possible difference: I make sure my 100-300 stay extended as much as possible so that there is no zooming just for the sake of doing it. I only zoom if I absolutely have to, otherwise the lens stays at max zoom for the duration of the shoot.

Niels
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Old Wednesday 6th November 2013, 09:08   #65
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The new Olympus looks very appealing, Ron. Am I right in thinking you could use a Canon 300mm f4 prime on it with an adapter? Would the AF still work?
Hi Hobbes. As others have said the Canon 300mm should fit with an adapter but will only work with manual focusing. However, the E-M1 incorporates focus peaking, the viewfinder is big and bright and you can zoom in to aid focusing, so many people seem to get on well focusing manually. Personally I much prefer to let my Olympus lenses do the work for me!

Regarding using the 75-300 on your camera, bear in mind that the Olympus lens does not incorporate in-lens stabilization. That might be a problem if your Panasonic body does not have in-body stabilization.

Ron
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Old Wednesday 6th November 2013, 10:46   #66
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Hi Hobbes. As others have said the Canon 300mm should fit with an adapter but will only work with manual focusing. However, the E-M1 incorporates focus peaking, the viewfinder is big and bright and you can zoom in to aid focusing, so many people seem to get on well focusing manually. Personally I much prefer to let my Olympus lenses do the work for me!

Regarding using the 75-300 on your camera, bear in mind that the Olympus lens does not incorporate in-lens stabilization. That might be a problem if your Panasonic body does not have in-body stabilization.

Ron
Hi Ron
Thanks for your reply. I guess if I'm looking for light weight, the new Canon D700 is a good compromise and will take the Canon 300mm f4 prime, if I want to go that route. It's just a shame to loose the 2x crop factor which is so handy in bird photography.

Regarding the Oly 75-300, I was more thinking I'd buy a m4/3 Olympus body and change brand completely (although I think the G3 is actually a superb little camera).

Lots to think about. I have emailed Panasonic in the hope that they will change their mind and, as a gesture of goodwill, replace my 100-300mm lens.

Jonathan, it sounds like you've done exactly the right thing in dealing with the dust inside the lens barrel. I'm sure it should be fine as long as the accumulation is halted.

Hobbes
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Old Wednesday 6th November 2013, 10:58   #67
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Regarding the Oly 75-300, I was more thinking I'd buy a m4/3 Olympus body and change brand completely (although I think the G3 is actually a superb little camera).
I see the Panasonic GX7 incorporates in-built stabilization, so perhaps they will include it in their cheaper models in the future.

Ron
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Old Thursday 7th November 2013, 00:38   #68
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A few EM-1 Images

IMO it's great for static shots, lacking on C-AF compared to the E-5. Lens 300f2.8
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Old Thursday 7th November 2013, 08:59   #69
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IMO it's great for static shots, lacking on C-AF compared to the E-5. Lens 300f2.8
Beautiful images. That is a superb lens you have. How does it feel with the small E-M1 attached? Interesting to hear your comments about C-AF.

Ron

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Old Thursday 7th November 2013, 12:46   #70
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And related: how would the camera do for C_AF with a m4/3 lens (currently either the 75-300 or the pana 100-300)?

Niels
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Old Thursday 7th November 2013, 14:24   #71
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Beautiful images. That is a superb lens you have. How does it feel with the small E-M1 attached? Interesting to hear your comments about C-AF.

Ron
The camera lens combo feels fine as long as you use the grip. Without it, there is just not enough camera to hold. I often hand hold it so the lens mount feels strong even with an adapter.

I've already shot several thousand BIF images and without being able to autofocus between frames at 10fps is an issue. They give us this gift of 10fps which you really need to make sure you get that just right wing position but they put conditions on it's use. It's like having a Ferrari with a governor on it. At 6fps where it can focus between frames the EVF blackout issue makes it very difficult to keep a fast moving bird in the frame. It's hard enough to keep a bird in the frame at 10fps due to the slight inherit EVF lag. It's just not a good BIF camera I'm afraid. If you want images of birds against a solid blue sky you have a better chance but those get boring after you've shot a bunch :-)

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Old Thursday 7th November 2013, 14:27   #72
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And related: how would the camera do for C_AF with a m4/3 lens (currently either the 75-300 or the pana 100-300)?

Niels
I had the 75-300 on the EM-5 but sold it so I can't tell you how it works on the EM-1. I was never impressed with that lens due to it's slow speed. The light that the lens need to shoot at the long end was the light in don't want to shoot in. On the EM-5 at lower light levels I found that it had problems focusing unless I zoomed out to give it a bigger aperture.

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Old Friday 8th November 2013, 00:55   #73
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I had the 75-300 on the EM-5 but sold it so I can't tell you how it works on the EM-1. I was never impressed with that lens due to it's slow speed. The light that the lens need to shoot at the long end was the light in don't want to shoot in. On the EM-5 at lower light levels I found that it had problems focusing unless I zoomed out to give it a bigger aperture.

Thanks for the helpful comments on AF in the EM-1 and on the Oly 75-300. On many occasions when shooting BIF with the G3 and 100-300, the camera will not recognize the presence of a bird, and I have to first aim at and focus on some element of the landscape at an appropriate distance and then point at the bird. I have gotten used to this routine and can do it fairly quickly, but I often don't get a shot.

I am frequently out with other birders, many of whom have Canon 40D, 50D, or 60D with 100-400, and one with Canon 5DMkIII and 600 prime. For them, the routine is simply aim and shoot. I have not seen any of them miss a shot, and even their worst results are often better than the best I can achieve. So I don't think M4/3 is anywhere near competing with DSLR for BIF at this point in its development.
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Old Friday 8th November 2013, 01:08   #74
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Thanks for the helpful comments on AF in the EM-1 and on the Oly 75-300. On many occasions when shooting BIF with the G3 and 100-300, the camera will not recognize the presence of a bird, and I have to first aim at and focus on some element of the landscape at an appropriate distance and then point at the bird. I have gotten used to this routine and can do it fairly quickly, but I often don't get a shot.

I am frequently out with other birders, many of whom have Canon 40D, 50D, or 60D with 100-400, and one with Canon 5DMkIII and 600 prime. For them, the routine is simply aim and shoot. I have not seen any of them miss a shot, and even their worst results are often better than the best I can achieve. So I don't think M4/3 is anywhere near competing with DSLR for BIF at this point in its development.
And guess what? I don't have all of Oly's mirrorless cameras but I do have three. None have C-AF+MF so when the camera can't detect a bird which happens on my EM-1/300f2.8 you can no longer just move the focus ring to bring it into focus. You now have to assign a button which no matter how close it is to your finger requires time. Time = lost shots.

I think the on sensor PDAF system just has a harder time at distance than the dedicated AF system in the E-5. I notice a lot more instances where the camera racks through the focus range before it figures out were the subject is. So, you see a bird approaching and you attempt to acquire a target that you can see as an out of focus blob in the EVF. The camera then racks through it's focus range.... bird is gone. Happens much too often.

A used 1DMkIV and 400f5.6 is looking better as a BIF rig...
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Old Friday 8th November 2013, 01:21   #75
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I agree that BIF is not perfect w m4/3, but it is not hopeless either. I shoot with a pana GH2, and I never use cAF, but for BIF I use multiple focus points. I probably had a success rate below 1/10 on this shot, but swifts are never easy no matter your camera:

http://www.birdforum.net/gallery/sho...p?photo=474766

Niels
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