[harryabbott]

I have posted this pic on a couple of sites and there is still doubt and division over which lark this actually is. The Spanish site is Fotodigiscoping.info and they favor a Thekla.
I simply do not know though I favoured a crested because it seemed to prefer being on the ground over perching in bushes, in any event I would be very grateful for a definitive identification.

The bird was photographed about 7 kim. inland from Sotogrande on some scrubland. so not at altitude.
It spent all its time on the ground not perching in nearby bushes at all.
Thanks for the help.
Please see full size pic for more detail at gallery link below
http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/...cat/all/page/1
Harry

[jpoyner]

Originally Posted by harryabbott

I have posted this pic on a couple of sites and there is still doubt and division over which lark this actually is. The Spanish site is Fotodigiscoping.info and they favor a Thekla.
I simply do not know though I favoured a crested because it seemed to prefer being on the ground over perching in bushes, in any event I would be very grateful for a definitive identification.

The bird was photographed about 7 kim. inland from Sotogrande on some scrubland. so not at altitude.
It spent all its time on the ground not perching in nearby bushes at all.

Thanks for the help.
Harry

On bill and facial expression I would go for Crested.

[CJW]

Originally Posted by jpoyner

On bill and facial expression I would go for Crested.

Agreed.

[Julian Sykes Wildlife]

Almost impossible to say without hearing it call, have never been to the Sotogrande so I do not know what the dominent species is there. With it not being at altitude it is probably going to be a Crested, since all the Theklas around here are in hill/montane regions but I would need the call to be certain as there is overlap. As for the characteristic of it spending a lot of time on the floor is not really relevant as Thekla also spends most of it time on the deck (in my experience). If you remember the call let us know and it might help the process.

[Tim100]

Doesn't the general buff colour suggest crested as opposed to thekla (which is darker) ?

[John Butler]

Originally Posted by harryabbott

The bird was photographed about 7 kim. inland from Sotogrande on some scrubland. so not at altitude.
It spent all its time on the ground not perching in nearby bushes at all.

Thanks for the help.
Harry

Hello Harry.

Based on the stouter, longer bill alone (which is half the head length) I would go for Crested Lark.

I know the Sotogrande area very well as it used to be a regular birding site for me when I lived in Estepona. My experience of Theklas in that area were always of slightly greyer birds, similar to the Ssp superflua.

Although Theklas tend to favour higher ground, they do often come down from their usually hilly habitats during the winter to take advantage of the more abundant food supply at lower levels.

Regards from Donana.

John.

[John Cantelo]

Ummm! These little blighters are tricky and photos don't always tell the whole story. However, contra other comments, I would suggest that the bill shape is more like Thekla than Crested - somewhat stubby & with a well defined curve to the lower mandible. The chest markings - bold & blobby also incline me towards Thekla. The crest shape I find hard to judge, but, arguably, it looks a tad spikey. Personally I generally find the greyer underwing and usually 'colder' plumage a good pointer - unfortunately neither can be judged in this photo, John

[Binocularface]

Hi

The bill structure/colouration certainly suggest Crested Lark to me. I cannot make out much on the tertails, though what I can see appears to be plain (?), this is also supportive of Crested Lark. However the breast streaking appears fairly thick and precise (not diffuse) which is a pro Thekla Lark feature (though I guess this is a variable feature on both species).

Overall I would be in the Crested Lark camp on this one!

ATB
Tristan

[Jane Turner]

I said Crested on Seeing it.. I tend to start at the bill, then go to the plumage.

[Ghostly Vision]

My inital reaction, like others, was Crested.

I believe it may be clinched quite easily by the shape of the lower mandible - convex on Crested, concave on Thekla?

If I'm wrong, sorry

Sean

[Reader]

Hi Harry

Glad you took my advice and posted this thread.

I have copied and pasted my comments on the photo you placed in the gallery. Having seen the above comments I still stand by what I have written below.

In my opinion this is a Crested Lark. That breast spotting tends to diffuse towards the chest whereas on Thekla it should be more pronounced. The bill appears too long and also appears straight on the lower mandible whereas on the Thekla it should be short and stubby and the lower mandible should have a slight curviture (convex) to it.


All Cresteds I see tend to be on the ground any way and most Theklas are the same but at a higher altitude so I don't think that that is a pointer to which species.

I don't know where you saw the bird but Crested tend to be at lower altitudes whereas Theklas tend to be at higher altitudes. That is not rule of thumb but is a fair guide line.

[John Cantelo]

OK lets first clarify a couple of things. Thekla's lower mandible should be convex and the bill broader based and stubbier. The chest markings more blobby on a cleaner whitish chest. The crest more fan-like and less 'spiked'. (All loosely based on the 'MacMillan Guide').

The odd thing is, contra other comments, when I enlarged this photo & looked carefully at the shape of the lower mandible I felt it looked, well, convex! It certainly isn't concave and whilst it starts off fairly straight, I reckon that it curves distinctly for the last third or so. Is it stubby enough? Well I find this a pretty subtle judgement (and there isn't that much between the two in absolute length), but I still think it's not too long to rule out Thekla. Some have looked at the chest pattern and discerned that it's "diffuse towards the chest", but when I look at it I see no such diffuse pattern! The markings look pretty distinct dark, blobby and, given the effects of shadow, quite whitish. The crest shape is more tricky to evaluate. It does look a bit on the long side for Thekla, but then again it doesn't seem to come a point or single strong 'spike' like many Cresteds.

I'm obviously out of a bit of a limb here and am very mindful that observers like John Butler have seen far more Theklas than me, but if I'm honest I'd have to say that it still looks more like a Thekla to me! So am I seeing things? John

[njlarsen]

I would like to thank reader for the piece of information that the photo is in the gallery (http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/...cat/all/page/1) ; several of the markings mentioned by others are visible on the larger version of the picture given there but not on the tiny version included in post one here. For another time, just include the link!

Looking at the image in the gallery, the lower mandible looks almost straight, close enough to match the images of crested in the field guides I looked at. The strong white eye-ring I thought I saw on the small version disappeared. Therefore overall, I am also in the pro-crested camp.

Niels

[harryabbott]

Sorry about omitting the link , I do not know how to do the link thing but I have copied and pasted it here for ref.
I think you can indded see much more detail in the gallery photo including a slight buff/rufous coloration towards the tail which some of the posters on the spanish site felt worth noting.
http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/...cat/all/page/1

[Jane Turner]

Originally Posted by John Cantelo

I'm obviously out of a bit of a limb here and am very mindful that observers like John Butler have seen far more Theklas than me, but if I'm honest I'd have to say that it still looks more like a Thekla to me! So am I seeing things? John

Looking at it again I'm not so certain John.... I wish there were more pics.... I think i would still say Crested - as that was my first impression... but I am nowhere near sure

[Jane Turner]

Its the length of the bill that made me shout Crestie, combined with the colour of the bird (open to interpretation since its a pic) in a Spanish context....

What if this was taken in Africa.... then you know I might be leaning towards Thekla.... what if its a vagrant?

and John...you are right about the bill tip shape!

[Julian Sykes Wildlife]

As I said the call is everything with this species in Spain.

[James Lowther]

Originally Posted by Jules Sykes

As I said the call is everything with this species in Spain.

Jules,
would you be so kind as to provide us (me anyway) with descriptions of said, highly distinctive calls (i'm off to Spain in February, and would like to pin down Thekla lark, so i never have to bother again )
James

[desgreene]

Originally Posted by James Lowther

Jules,
would you be so kind as to provide us (me anyway) with descriptions of said, highly distinctive calls (i'm off to Spain in February, and would like to pin down Thekla lark, so i never have to bother again )
James

Hi James,
if you follow this link there are sound files for both Thekla & Crested.

http://www.mangoverde.com/birdsound/index.html

Hope this helps.

[James Lowther]

Originally Posted by desgreene

Hi James,
if you follow this link there are sound files for both Thekla & Crested.

http://www.mangoverde.com/birdsound/index.html

Hope this helps.

cheers Des, will try it out later

[njlarsen]

Originally Posted by Jane Turner

Its the length of the bill that made me shout Crestie, combined with the colour of the bird (open to interpretation since its a pic) in a Spanish context....

What if this was taken in Africa.... then you know I might be leaning towards Thekla.... what if its a vagrant?

and John...you are right about the bill tip shape!

The nearest part of Africa I have been to is Tunesia, but the way I remember it, this picture would not fit with any lark there, both crested and thekla were more sandy-colored.

Niels

[Edward woodwood]

first impression

Thekla

but from that pic I wouldn't hazard anything remotely definite

[sphinx79]

My initial gut feeling was Thekla but there are one or two anomalies, e.g. absence of a whitish collar effect and the degree of curvature on the upper mandible. I'd be inclined to leave it unidentified in the absence of further pics or description of call, especially at this time of year when the two species overlap most in habitat choice.

[Ghostly Vision]

Sorry, everyone, go my fact the wrong way round on the lower mandible shape!

Having re-assessed the features, although the initial reaction is Crested as I look at the gallery photo, the plumage features do indicate a Thekla, as does the bill shape.

I'm sure I recently saw an ID article in one of the mags about these two species. Can anyone refer me to it?

Not sure if it is relevant, but the primaries don't appear to stick too far beyond the tertials, and there is some moult on the lesser covs. Might that help?

Will go and have a look at my Svensson and stuff

Sean

[Edward woodwood]

shirihai and christie middle east guide is the dogs on these species