[elkcub]

Hi,

Given the superb quality of mid- to high- end optics, one’s ability to hold the view steady is probably more important than any other single consideration. A jiggling view simply sets practical limits on effective resolution, field-mark identification, and, of course, enjoyment.

To me a tripod is too heavy and cumbersome, so my search has been restricted to monopods and Finn-sticks. As I define them, a monopod rests on the ground, whereas a Finn stick allows propping up the binoculars with arms lowered. So, a collapsed monopod can be used as a Finn stick, but the extended monopod will be more stable and require less energy for lengthy observations. In the field there is often a need to detach the binocular quickly, so while a reliable attachment is desirable for safety and stability, a permanent one is not.

I’ve attached pictures of a terrific low cost ($35), light weight (10 oz.) “shooting stick” that can be adapted easily for use with many binoculars, particularly roofs with long hinges, and porros with chubby prism housings. Unlike most of the camera monopods I've seen, it is extremely strong and extends from a 32” Finn stick size, to a whopping 72” (max) monopod. The three sections have internal gripping cams, so there are no protruding hinges. In addition, the unit comes with an ingenious net carry bag, so it can be slung over the shoulder until needed.

The first modification to the shooting stick involves covering the “V” shaped rifle rest (made of plastic) with a leather saddle attached with rivets (or sewn, stapled, etc.). Leather is an ideal material for protecting the binoculars and also provides excellent traction so it won't slip. The second modification is to wrap the exposed upper metal section with insulated bicycle handlebar tape for a comfortable and warm grip in all weather. (I found that there was no need for the wrist stap which is easily detached.)

When in use, the binocular is perched on the saddle, as shown, with its strap draped around one’s neck. Hence, there is no way the binoculars can fall, although it is amazing how solid my trusty 10x42 SLCs stay in place. Using pencil marks on the metal sections, it is very easy to extend the monopod to the desired length, and the deployment procedure becomes quite natural. To quickly disengage the binoculars, it is simply lifted off the saddle and the stick allowed to fall to one’s shoulder on the left or right. Presto!

I’ve used this rig for several weeks and find it to be ideal in contrast to the heavy (1.5 lb.) and awkward Manfrotto 3016 monopod. In fact, I can’t think of any improvements, at least for use with my SLC-type binoculars. Some days I don't wind up using it at all, but wiith its minimum weight never regret having it along.

The shooting stick was purchased on eBay and a second one later for my wife. Search for item 7123517064. Or contact Bohn Distributing: <okbohn@bohndistributing.com>

I’d be happy to answer any questions, and would appreciate knowing your experiences with this device or adaptations of it.

Regards,
Elkcub

PS. BTW, the first picture was taken from eBay, ... so that's not me. Second picture shows original and covered forks; third handlebar tape on one stick; forth leather saddle detail; and fifth binocs firmly perched on extended stick.

[chartwell99]

Originally Posted by elkcub

Hi,

Given the superb quality of mid- to high- end optics, one’s ability to hold the view steady is probably more important than any other single consideration. A jiggling view simply sets practical limits on effective resolution, field-mark identification, and, of course, enjoyment.

To me a tripod is too heavy and cumbersome, so my search has been restricted to monopods and Finn-sticks. As I define them, a monopod rests on the ground, whereas a Finn stick allows propping up the binoculars with arms lowered. So, a collapsed monopod can be used as a Finn stick, but the extended monopod will be more stable and require less energy for lengthy observations. In the field there is often a need to detach the binocular quickly, so while a reliable attachment is desirable for safety and stability, a permanent one is not.

I’ve attached pictures of a terrific low cost ($35), light weight (10 oz.) “shooting stick” that can be adapted easily for use with many binoculars, particularly roofs with long hinges, and porros with chubby prism housings. Unlike most of the camera monopods I've seen, is it extremely strong and extends from a 32” Finn stick size, to a whopping 72” (max) monopod. The three sections have internal gripping cams, so there are no protruding hinges. In addition, the unit comes with an ingenious net carry bag, so it can be slung over the shoulder until needed.

The first modification to the shooting stick involves covering the “V” shaped rifle rest (made of plastic) with a leather saddle attached with rivets (or sewn, stapled, etc.). Leather is an ideal material for protecting the binoculars and also provides excellent traction so it won't slip. The second modification is to wrap the exposed upper metal section with insulated bicycle handlebar tape for a comfortable and warm grip in all weather. (I found that there was no need for the wrist stap which is easily detached.)

When in use, the binocular is perched on the saddle, as shown, with its strap draped around one’s neck. Hence, there is no way the binoculars can fall, although it is amazing how solid my trusty 10x42 SLCs stay in place. Using pencil marks on the metal sections, it is very easy to extend the monopod to the desired length, and the deployment procedure becomes quite natural. To quickly disengage the binoculars, it is simply lifted off the saddle and the stick allowed to fall to one’s shoulder on the left or right. Presto!

I’ve used this rig for several weeks and find it to be ideal in contrast to the heavy (1.5 lb.) and awkward Manfrotto 3016 monopod. In fact, I can’t think of any improvements, at least for use with my SLC-type binoculars. Some days I don't wind up using it at all, but wiith its minimum weight never regret having it along.

The shooting stick was purchased on eBay and a second one later for my wife. Search for item 7123517064. Or contact Bohn Distributing: <okbohn@bohndistributing.com>

I’d be happy to answer any questions, and would appreciate knowing your experiences with this device or adaptations of it.

Regards,
Elkcub

PS. BTW, the first picture was taken from eBay, ... so that's not me. Second picture shows original and covered forks; third handlebar tape on one stick; forth leather saddle detail; and fifth binocs firmly perched on extended stick.

Very interesting discussion - thanks for sharing. I presently use an attachment which uses the tripod screw of the monopod/tripod (which normally fits into the pan head or ball head), and holds the binocular with velcro straps. Does your stick have a similar tripod screw?
Thanks - Tom

[elkcub]

Originally Posted by chartwell99

Very interesting discussion - thanks for sharing. I presently use an attachment which uses the tripod screw of the monopod/tripod (which normally fits into the pan head or ball head), and holds the binocular with velcro straps. Does your stick have a similar tripod screw?
Thanks - Tom

Tom,

You're welcome. Note in the second photo a threaded bolt is seen protruding from the unmodified stick on the left. Is that what you mean? The "V" attachment screws onto it normally, but a camera or panning head could be attached if you wish. I've tried my Nikon Spotting Scope and it works, but not as well as a tripod.

This stick is more effective than any monopod I tried, and a lot less expensive. What kind of binoculars do you have?

-elk

[chartwell99]

Originally Posted by elkcub

Tom,

You're welcome. Note in the second photo a threaded bolt is seen protruding from the unmodified stick on the left. Is that what you mean? The "V" attachment screws onto it normally, but a camera or panning head could be attached if you wish. I've tried my Nikon Spotting Scope and it works, but not as well as a tripod.

This stick is more effective than any monopod I tried, and a lot less expensive. What kind of binoculars do you have?

-elk

I was thinking of using the stick for my Leica 10 x 50s which, unfortunately, really need some form of support to realize the true potential of the binocular. This was looks like it will work, and I really appreciate the recommendation.

[elkcub]

Originally Posted by chartwell99

I was thinking of using the stick for my Leica 10 x 50s which, unfortunately, really need some form of support to realize the true potential of the binocular. This was looks like it will work, and I really appreciate the recommendation.

My guess is that it will work very nicely. The binoculars should simply stick on the leather covered "V" of their own weight. The whole thing can be tilted 45 deg. or more side to side, or fore and aft, and the binocs are quite safe. It takes some experience to develop confidence. Let us know how it works out. You can get some leather rivets at a shoe repair shop or hobby store. Otherwise, you could attach a swivel head.

-elk

[chartwell99]

Originally Posted by elkcub

My guess is that it will work very nicely. The binoculars should simply stick on the leather covered "V" of their own weight. The whole thing can be tilted 45 deg. or more side to side, or fore and aft, and the binocs are quite safe. It takes some experience to develop confidence. Let us know how it works out. You can get some leather rivets at a shoe repair shop or hobby store. Otherwise, you could attach a swivel head.

-elk

Many thanks for the recommendation. This device is truly as described. Since my leatherworking skills are nonexistant, I haven't attempted a leather cover, but I have taken to putting a small towel over the Y piece, and while not quite as convenient, it does work surprisingly well. Its a fair amount of effort for small bins, but a real godsend for the Leica 10 x 50 and similar heavy high powered glasses. Many, many thanks - Tom

[elkcub]

Originally Posted by chartwell99

Many thanks for the recommendation. This device is truly as described. Since my leatherworking skills are nonexistant, I haven't attempted a leather cover, but I have taken to putting a small towel over the Y piece, and while not quite as convenient, it does work surprisingly well. Its a fair amount of effort for small bins, but a real godsend for the Leica 10 x 50 and similar heavy high powered glasses. Many, many thanks - Tom

Tom,

I'm very pleased that it worked out for you. I also find that it brings out the real potential of heavy binocs, even my 10x42 SLCs. Nowadays I always sling the stick over my shoulder on the way out the door.

If you need a piece of leather I'll send you one (email address). A staple, stitch or rivet will do. It's really a snap.

-elk

[chartwell99]

Originally Posted by elkcub

Tom,

I'm very pleased that it worked out for you. I also find that it brings out the real potential of heavy binocs, even my 10x42 SLCs. Nowadays I always sling the stick over my shoulder on the way out the door.

-elk

I owe Elk a huge thank you for his recommendation on this device. The stick is so light and easy to carry that it is now also part of my birding gear, and it has made extended viewing, especially with 10 power bins, a real pleasure. You really cannot appreciate the performance of a high end binocular if you cannot hold it steady. If there is any downside, it is the attention it draws, both from other birders as well as casual bystanders. In an odd twist, I recently had a hunter who came up to eyeball the setup tell me that he thought the stick would make an outstanding rifle rest. Well, it probably would, but it's real calling is birding. Thank you again, Elk - I cannot recommend this device more strongly. Tom

[elkcub]

Originally Posted by chartwell99

I owe Elk a huge thank you for his recommendation on this device. The stick is so light and easy to carry that it is now also part of my birding gear, and it has made extended viewing, especially with 10 power bins, a real pleasure. You really cannot appreciate the performance of a high end binocular if you cannot hold it steady. If there is any downside, it is the attention it draws, both from other birders as well as casual bystanders. In an odd twist, I recently had a hunter who came up to eyeball the setup tell me that he thought the stick would make an outstanding rifle rest. Well, it probably would, but it's real calling is birding. Thank you again, Elk - I cannot recommend this device more strongly. Tom

Tom,

Thanks for the feedback. A rifle rest,— what a hoot! I've also had quite a bit of attention to the stick. One elderly lady was toting a huge pair of Swift porros last week. I just shortened up the stick and moved it under her binocs so she could scan the region. She was really impressed and will proceed to buy one no doubt.

I'm also finding that in Finn stick mode (i.e., collapsed), even my lighter 8x30 SLC is a lot more convenient to hold for a long view. (Of course, the Finns know that already.) Since I like to observe bird behavior for minutes on end, it's the perfect companion. I don't have any trouble pointing up to watch birds in flight either, popular opinion to the contrary (60 deg. is probably max.).

BTW, which binocs have you tried it with, just the Leica 10x50?

-elk

[chartwell99]

Originally Posted by elkcub

BTW, which binocs have you tried it with, just the Leica 10x50?

-elk

Elk,

I have also used the stick with my Nikon 8 x 42 Venturer/HGs, also with much pleasure. I always felt I could hold the Nikons steady for brief periods of time, but their considerable weight which contributes to the steady image also makes holding the glasses for any length of time an issue for me. Frankly, I was never able to realize the potential of the Leica 10 x 50s for any length of time without support, and my prior approach of using a monopod with a velcro strap binocular attachment was a real pain unless I spent a fair amount of time in one place, usually watching hawks at twilight (the chief reason I bought the big Leicas in the first place). Spring in South Texas is a glorious time for birding or almost anything else, and this device could not have arrived a moment sooner. Given the really moderate cost, I hope others will give it a try as well.

Tom

[elkcub]

Originally Posted by chartwell99

Elk,

I have also used the stick with my Nikon 8 x 42 Venturer/HGs, also with much pleasure. I always felt I could hold the Nikons steady for brief periods of time, but their considerable weight which contributes to the steady image also makes holding the glasses for any length of time an issue for me. Frankly, I was never able to realize the potential of the Leica 10 x 50s for any length of time without support, and my prior approach of using a monopod with a velcro strap binocular attachment was a real pain unless I spent a fair amount of time in one place, usually watching hawks at twilight (the chief reason I bought the big Leicas in the first place). Spring in South Texas is a glorious time for birding or almost anything else, and this device could not have arrived a moment sooner. Given the really moderate cost, I hope others will give it a try as well.

Tom

Now at 19 oz. the Swaro 8x30 SLC Mk II is not a back breaker. However, even here I found that for extended viewing this rig made a world of difference. I'm talking about 2-3 minute observations of shore birds with no strain. I think this blends with the functionality usually associated with scopes, but a lot easier to lug around. I haven't yet gone into the field with my 2x Swarro adapter for the 10x42 SLC, but so far it looks promising. More about that when it happens.

Happy migration season.

Elkcub

[kabsetz]

It's nice to notice that the "rest of the world" is at long last seeing the light and beginning to use finnsticks. Indeed, when the practice caught on here in the far north, it was at least as much because a support like this lets you hold your arms comfortably low at about waist level as it was for the added stability. As has been pointed out, heavier binoculars are actually steadier to hand-hold initially, until your arms begin to burn. Conversely, holding your bare hands cupped in front of your eyes for a while begins to tire you. The first commonplace solution of the Finnish birders back in the olden days was to support the binoculars on top of the nice hard-leather binocular cases which used to accompany all porro-prism binoculars. This helped a lot, but you still had to keep your arms and hands higher than optimum. Nowadays, the most common type of a stick is of a length which allows you to keep your hands at waist level or slightly below - still short enough not to be a hassle to carry around. With this length, of course, you cannot prop it on the ground if you are standing, so extra stability cannot be maximised as it can with telescopic long sticks or monopods. Most people use sticks with the top shaped somewhat like your leather saddle, either carved out of wood or fashioned out of a hockey puck or really anything that you can easily shape to provide a snug platform for you particular binocular. In practice, the binocular does not really have to be attached to the stick, although it doesn't hurt if it can be. Without an attachment, you just place the stick under the binocular and start viewing and drop it on you chest when you are done. This is quick and easy if you are walking in the woods etc. Some kind of a fastening can be advantageous if you are doing migration watching or something else more stationary. With a proper finnstick, you can literally spend hours without taking your binoculars off your eyes except to view at something interesting with your scope.


The next thing to catch on (slowly, of course) will be the use of proper and simple unit-power sighting devices for telescopes, and then the virtues of truly stable tripods.

Kimmo

[iporali]

Originally Posted by kabsetz

It's nice to notice that the "rest of the world" is at long last seeing the light and beginning to use finnsticks.

And developing the concept further. Thanks Elkcub!

Ilkka

[Robert Ellis]

Originally Posted by iporali

And developing the concept further. Thanks Elkcub!

Ilkka

I have been looking to get a Finnstick since I tried one over the summer. I ran across a Finn himself using one in Estonia at Lahemaa park.

[zurtfox]

Originally Posted by Robert Ellis

I ran across a Finn himself using one in Estonia at Lahemaa park.

Did either the Finn or his stick survive???

[Robert Ellis]

Originally Posted by zurtfox

Did either the Finn or his stick survive???

Well, neither. However, the pieces of his Leica were enough to get me a replacement sent under warranty.

[elkcub]

Tom, Kimmo, Zertfox, Ilkka, Robert Ellis, et al:

Many thanks for the positive comments and Kimmo's overview of finnstick evolution. If you decide to get one, please add a post with your own field evaluation. It makes a huge difference for me with full size binocs, but not everyone likes the same thing.

Needing a unique name I'd like to call it a FISMO (Finn Stick Monopod).
Best regards,
-elk

[richt]

Originally Posted by elkcub

Tom, Kimmo, Zertfox, Ilkka, Robert Ellis, et al:

Many thanks for the positive comments and Kimmo's overview of finnstick evolution. If you decide to get one, please add a post with your own field evaluation. It makes a huge difference for me with full size binocs, but not everyone likes the same thing.

Needing a unique name I'd like to call it a FISMO (Finn Stick Monopod).
Best regards,
-elk

Hi Ed

Have looked at this idea on and off for some time now and have just purchased Swift audubon's as you are aware
I wont be collecting the Swift porro's for a few months so cant specifically try them but is it likely this can work for say Nikon SE 10 x 42 or E2 8 x 30 porro's ?
Anyone tried these models with this stick ?

Regards
Richt

[ceasar]

I've used my Nikon 10 x 42 SE extensively with my version of a "finnstick." (It's a "Pole Cat" adjustable walking stick and rifle rest made by Stoney Point. Cabela's sells it. I have the V shaped rifle rest heavily wrapped and cushioned with very large "H" shaped rubber bands for use as a binocular rest.) It works nicely. I always keep my neckstrap on though, that goes without saying! I keep one hand on the stick, just under the bins for "tilt and shift" and one hand on the bins for guidance and focusing.

By the way, I get a Hat Catalogue from Hartford-York in French Camp, CA. www.hartfordyork.com. In addition to great hats, they sell great Canes from various companies around the world. Some of them are crafted by FINNA in Catalonia, Spain.
I wonder if that is the origin of the name finnstick?

Cordially,
Bob

[Otto McDiesel]

Finn - Finnish, Finland. Let's give our friends the thumbs up.

[richt]

Originally Posted by ceasar

I've used my Nikon 10 x 42 SE extensively with my version of a "finnstick." (It's a "Pole Cat" adjustable walking stick and rifle rest made by Stoney Point. Cabela's sells it. I have the V shaped rifle rest heavily wrapped and cushioned with very large "H" shaped rubber bands for use as a binocular rest.) It works nicely. I always keep my neckstrap on though, that goes without saying! I keep one hand on the stick, just under the bins for "tilt and shift" and one hand on the bins for guidance and focusing.

By the way, I get a Hat Catalogue from Hartford-York in French Camp, CA. www.hartfordyork.com. In addition to great hats, they sell great Canes from various companies around the world. Some of them are crafted by FINNA in Catalonia, Spain.
I wonder if that is the origin of the name finnstick?

Cordially,
Bob

Hi Bob

Thanks for that i will check Cabelas out though i am UK based for shipping
Good news is it seems at least the 10 SE's will be ok for this and judging by the shape and size probably the Swift Audubon's
I am not quite so sure on the smaller "stubby" E2 8 x 30's

I have actually managed to source Elkcub's (Ed's) original "Finnstick" on the net today but as ever i may have to ship the item to our pals in Jacksonville Florida for later collection on our next US vacation


I did also see a neat looking monopod today at 7day shop for around £11.99 and a V shape screw on adaptor for £1.79 which i think gives a very similar net result to the finnstick mentioned on BF

And yes Luca it is hats off to Finland for this option

Regards
Richt

[elkcub]

Originally Posted by richt

Hi Ed

Have looked at this idea on and off for some time now and have just purchased Swift audubon's as you are aware
I wont be collecting the Swift porro's for a few months so cant specifically try them but is it likely this can work for say Nikon SE 10 x 42 or E2 8 x 30 porro's ?
Anyone tried these models with this stick ?

Regards
Richt

Hey, Richt,

The FISMO I developed is perfect for the 10x42 and 8x30 SLCs and probably any larger SLC. Porros, including my 804 Audubons and Nikon Es, don't have chubby tubes that come close enough for them to stick on the saddle without help. Also, the focusing wheel in the center gets in the way, or visa versa. The 828 Audubons work reasonably well but would benefit by putting some kind of pad under the leather saddle to make it wider. You might experiment with this when you get yours. Wrapping tape around the "V" rest before putting on the leather might work well.

I'd like to see a picture of Bob's arrangement, particularly since I've got oodles of rubber bands to work with.

How do you like the Audubon? Remind me what body type you have again. I guess it would be easier to support a type 2 than a type 3, which has a the focusing wheel centered between the hinges.

Ed

[richt]

Originally Posted by elkcub

Hey, Richt,

The FISMO I developed is perfect for the 10x42 and 8x30 SLCs and probably any larger SLC. Porros, including my 804 Audubons and Nikon Es, don't have chubby tubes that come close enough for them to stick on the saddle without help. Also, the focusing wheel in the center gets in the way, or visa versa. The 828 Audubons work reasonably well but would benefit by putting some kind of pad under the leather saddle to make it wider. You might experiment with this when you get yours.

I'd like to see a picture of Bob's arrangement, particularly since I've got oodles of rubber bands to work with.

How do you like the Audubon? Remind me what body type you have again. I guess it would be easier to support a type 2 than a type 3, which has a the focusing wheel centered between the hinges.

Ed

Hi Ed

Thanks for a helpful reply i did wonder about my porro models i think Bob's post ref the 10 x 42 SE's was interesting and maybe they can be a workable option with adaptation
As for the Audubon i purchased the latest model of the 804 Fully Multi Coated just prior to the 820
Unfortunately i wont be collecting them from Florida for a few months yet
Our friends in Jacksonville have looked through them and done preliminary checks so hopefully all will be well

PS Congrats i think ? on the recent 804ED from that famous auction site i was very tempted myself
Hope they are a good acquisition to your Swift stable

Regards
Richt

[elkcub]

Originally Posted by richt

Hi Ed

Thanks for a helpful reply i did wonder about my porro models i think Bob's post ref the 10 x 42 SE's was interesting and maybe they can be a workable option with adaptation
As for the Audubon i purchased the latest model of the 804 Fully Multi Coated just prior to the 820
Unfortunately i wont be collecting them from Florida for a few months yet
Our friends in Jacksonville have looked through them and done preliminary checks so hopefully all will be well

PS Congrats i think ? on the recent 804ED from that famous auction site i was very tempted myself
Hope they are a good acquisition to your Swift stable

Regards
Richt

Oh, now I remember. Thanks for the memory jog. I recently acquired a mint Type 4b(1), which is only marked MC but I believe has the same coatings as your 4b(2) anyway. You should be quite pleased and forever happy.

You noticed. The 804ED was bought for Renze de Vries, the coauthor of the Audubon paper. We're both delighted it worked out so well. He deserves one. (Stay tuned, we've uncovered more complexities in the history of the 804 that will appear in a revised paper during the next few months.)

Ed

[richt]

Originally Posted by elkcub

Oh, now I remember. Thanks for the memory jog. I recently acquired a mint Type 4b(1), which is only marked MC but I believe has the same coatings as your 4b(2) anyway. You should be quite pleased and forever happy.

You noticed. The 804ED was bought for Renze de Vries, the coauthor of the Audubon paper. We're both delighted it worked out so well. He deserves one. (Stay tuned, we've uncovered more complexities in the history of the 804 that will appear in a revised paper during the next few months.)

Ed

Ed

Nice work for Renze with the ED and i will definitely stay tuned for the 804 history developments
When i actually collect my Audubon i will post some thoughts but this will be a while



Regards to both of you

Richt