Join for FREE
It only takes a minute!
Magnifying the passion for nature. Zeiss Victory Harpia 95. New!

Welcome to BirdForum.
BirdForum is the net's largest birding community, dedicated to wild birds and birding, and is absolutely FREE! You are most welcome to register for an account, which allows you to take part in lively discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 10 votes, 5.00 average.
Old Tuesday 5th January 2016, 20:29   #26
Vespobuteo
Registered User

 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Utopia
Posts: 1,670
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0xsEjO877Q

brand new panasonic promo

looks nice.
Vespobuteo is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 5th January 2016, 20:33   #27
njlarsen
Opus Editor
 
njlarsen's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Portsmouth, Dominica
Posts: 20,198
A very good intro with photos from two pre-production lenses: http://naturalexposures.com/leica-lumix-100-400mm/

Quote
Quote:
This was not a test report.
The week I spent with these two new lenses was a great time to get an idea if Panasonic is on track with this greatly anticipated and soon to be highly coveted new lens. I chose not to write a specific report on the details of this new optic since the two I was shooting were basically prototypes, literally built by hand and somewhat different than what we will soon see. I will say that the auto focus was exceptionally fast and accurate, the glass is extremely sharp. It focuses as close as 1.3 meters or 4.2 feet
Niels
__________________
Support bird conservation in the Caribbean: BirdCaribbean
njlarsen is online now  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Tuesday 5th January 2016, 20:50   #28
Vespobuteo
Registered User

 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Utopia
Posts: 1,670
Quote:
Originally Posted by njlarsen View Post
A very good intro with photos from two pre-production lenses: http://naturalexposures.com/leica-lumix-100-400mm/

Quote

Niels
seem to be the same guy as in the panasonic promo I linked to,
not very flattering light on the photos,
and too small pics to really see how it performs

but the size an weight look very reasonable to me,
as he writes in his blog

"This is the lens Ive been hoping for and its an amazing time to be enjoying photography. The days of 12 pound telephotos is nearing an end!"

will this work as good on olympus as on panasonic cams?
Vespobuteo is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 6th January 2016, 09:04   #29
Vespobuteo
Registered User

 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Utopia
Posts: 1,670
MTF diagram for the Leica 100-400 DG,
seems so be optimized for the max focus length
and very sharp at 400mm
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	leica-100-400-MTF kopia.jpg
Views:	251
Size:	75.3 KB
ID:	569353  
Vespobuteo is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 6th January 2016, 09:52   #30
Hobbes2
Registered User
 
Hobbes2's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Hertfordshire, UK
Posts: 5,855
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vespobuteo View Post
MTF diagram for the Leica 100-400 DG,
seems so be optimized for the max focus length
and very sharp at 400mm
Music to my ears
Hobbes2 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 6th January 2016, 17:18   #31
njlarsen
Opus Editor
 
njlarsen's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Portsmouth, Dominica
Posts: 20,198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vespobuteo View Post
MTF diagram for the Leica 100-400 DG,
seems so be optimized for the max focus length
and very sharp at 400mm
Could someone point me to the cheat-sheet on how to read such graphs? Is a couple of points meaningful when situated between 90 and 100, and what does 20/40/60 S/M really mean in this context?

And, for comparison, any links to similar graphs for the canon 100-400 (version 1 or 2 or both)?

thanks
Niels
__________________
Support bird conservation in the Caribbean: BirdCaribbean
njlarsen is online now  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Wednesday 6th January 2016, 18:07   #32
Vespobuteo
Registered User

 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Utopia
Posts: 1,670
Quote:
Originally Posted by njlarsen View Post
Could someone point me to the cheat-sheet on how to read such graphs? Is a couple of points meaningful when situated between 90 and 100, and what does 20/40/60 S/M really mean in this context?

And, for comparison, any links to similar graphs for the canon 100-400 (version 1 or 2 or both)?

thanks
Niels
* generally you could say that closer to 100% is better
* the blue lines indicate "sharpness" (lower cycle pattern, 20 line pairs/mm)
* the green lines indicates "contrast" (higher cycle patterns 40 line pairs/mm)

* the dotted line should follow/be as close as possible to the non-dotted line of the same color.

* left in the diagram (0) is the image center, so there always be a sharpness/contrast fall-off towards the edge.

Curves shows measured or theoretical values at full stop. Most likely theoretical. But it still gives a hint on the level of performance.

The above indicates that, fully open, the lens is sharper at 400 mm than at 100 mm. But stopped down at 100mm it will be sharper naturally.

Most manufacturers seem to have charts for 10 and 30 cycles so this chart will not be
comparable with for example Nikon or Canon. Less pixel density for FF and DX cams probably make it more relevant to use smaller cycle values.

Last edited by Vespobuteo : Wednesday 6th January 2016 at 18:24.
Vespobuteo is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 6th January 2016, 18:16   #33
njlarsen
Opus Editor
 
njlarsen's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Portsmouth, Dominica
Posts: 20,198
Thank you.
I also mentioned 60 because the Oly graph seems to include that instead of 40, but I assume it still means contrast. The center sharpness seems slightly closer to 100% in the pana graph?

Niels
__________________
Support bird conservation in the Caribbean: BirdCaribbean
njlarsen is online now  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Wednesday 6th January 2016, 18:26   #34
Vespobuteo
Registered User

 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Utopia
Posts: 1,670
here is the MTF for the Panasonic 100-300/4-5.6 Lumix Mega OIS lens for comparison,
you can see that it's good att 100mm but looses significantly at max focal length.
the test shots I have seen with this older lens does not look bad,
but they lack the last bit of contrast and sharpness (can be fixed in post processing to some extent)
but the price is also quite a bit lower
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	lumix-100-300-5.6 kopia.jpg
Views:	178
Size:	76.0 KB
ID:	569378  

Last edited by Vespobuteo : Wednesday 6th January 2016 at 18:59.
Vespobuteo is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 6th January 2016, 18:36   #35
njlarsen
Opus Editor
 
njlarsen's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Portsmouth, Dominica
Posts: 20,198
Thank you, I have a copy of the older lens myself.

Niels
__________________
Support bird conservation in the Caribbean: BirdCaribbean
njlarsen is online now  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Wednesday 6th January 2016, 18:46   #36
Vespobuteo
Registered User

 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Utopia
Posts: 1,670
Quote:
Originally Posted by njlarsen View Post
Thank you.
I also mentioned 60 because the Oly graph seems to include that instead of 40, but I assume it still means contrast. The center sharpness seems slightly closer to 100% in the pana graph?

Niels
The new Olympus 300/4 IS Pro no doubt will be sharper since it's a prime,
especially edge sharpness will be better. From what I have seen in test shots it's probably in the same level as Nikons and Canons latest super-expensive primes.

MTF:s even for good zooms always look a bit "worse" in theory,
but still they can produce sharp and contrasty photos in practice,

I think the Leica 100-400 DG Elmarit will be a good balance between price
and performance. Also a bit lighter and more flexible for walk around use than the 300/4 olympus.

The only downside is image stabilization on Olympus cams.
I guess you have to select either lens OR in-camera stabilization.
Both will probably won't work together.

With the Olympus lens you get 6-stops IS when combining both lens and in-camera stabilization with the OMD E-M1.

Another thing is autofocus-speed, generally it will be faster for larger aperture lenses.
So the Olympus will probably have an advantage here.

Last edited by Vespobuteo : Wednesday 6th January 2016 at 19:01.
Vespobuteo is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 6th January 2016, 18:51   #37
njlarsen
Opus Editor
 
njlarsen's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Portsmouth, Dominica
Posts: 20,198
Quote:
With the Olympus lens you get 6-stops when combining both lens and in-camera stabilization with the OMD E-M1.
Have to be a bird sitting extremely still for this to be relevant

Niels
__________________
Support bird conservation in the Caribbean: BirdCaribbean
njlarsen is online now  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Wednesday 6th January 2016, 19:49   #38
Vespobuteo
Registered User

 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Utopia
Posts: 1,670
Quote:
Originally Posted by njlarsen View Post
Have to be a bird sitting extremely still for this to be relevant

Niels
yes, very good for shooting stuffed birds!


but still might be useful, in some situations, being able to lower the ISO,
especially since high ISO is not super on the micro 4/3:s small sensor,
but I totally agree that IS is a bit overrated for bird photo
Vespobuteo is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 6th January 2016, 20:02   #39
Jim M.
Choose Civility

 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 6,697
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vespobuteo View Post
yes, very good for shooting stuffed birds!


but still might be useful, in some situations, being able to lower the ISO,
especially since high ISO is not super on the micro 4/3:s small sensor,
but I totally agree that IS is a bit overrated for bird photo
Plus, the claim is you get 4 stops with single IS (available regardless of what camera it is paire with), and 6 stops with dual, so that further limits the situations in which dual IS will be relevant (assuming the 6 stops claim is even accurate).

In any event, thanks for posting the charts and other info in this thread.
Jim M. is online now  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2013 2016 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Wednesday 6th January 2016, 20:24   #40
Vespobuteo
Registered User

 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Utopia
Posts: 1,670
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim M. View Post
Plus, the claim is you get 4 stops with single IS (available regardless of what camera it is paire with), and 6 stops with dual, so that further limits the situations in which dual IS will be relevant (assuming the 6 stops claim is even accurate).

In any event, thanks for posting the charts and other info in this thread.
slrgear.com got 100% good shots at 1/15 sec!

"In our testing, the Olympus 300mm ƒ/4 Pro's image stabilization using the E-M1 v4.0 was fantastic. Our lens technician Rob has quite the steady hand to begin with and, as you can see from our graph, was able to get about a 40% keeper rate of "Good" shots down to 1/60s of a second without any image stabilization. With image stabilization, however, not only was he now getting 100% keeper rates at 1/60s, he saw 100% of shots rated "Good" down to 1/15s! Going even slower, we still saw a handful of "Good"-rated shots (~30%) at a whopping 1s exposure time. At 300mm. That is incredible!"

http://slrgear.com/reviews/showproduct.php?product=1840

But for the Leica 100-400 DG, I can't find any info on how many stops Power IS will give
with the IS in-lens only.

Last edited by Vespobuteo : Wednesday 6th January 2016 at 20:45.
Vespobuteo is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 6th January 2016, 20:44   #41
njlarsen
Opus Editor
 
njlarsen's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Portsmouth, Dominica
Posts: 20,198
So still problems with shutter shock on the Oly lens ...

I am looking forward to seeing more on the panasonic lens, hopefully they will make a test of that one as well.

Niels
__________________
Support bird conservation in the Caribbean: BirdCaribbean
njlarsen is online now  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Wednesday 6th January 2016, 22:34   #42
Adey Baker
Member
 
Adey Baker's Avatar

 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Hinckley, Leics
Posts: 4,920
Quote:
Originally Posted by njlarsen View Post
Have to be a bird sitting extremely still for this to be relevant

Niels
I've managed to get decent shots with the 100-300mm at 1/60th with the lens IS off and the Olympus body IS on, so the number of time where you need both is limited as even a gentle breeze could cause problems with a bird's plumage or leaves on branches next to the bird at that kind of shutter speed and close-ups of butterflies perched on flowers, for instance also need a fast shutter (though they're usually out and about in brighter light anyway).
Adey Baker is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2005 2006 2007 2009 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Thursday 7th January 2016, 00:01   #43
John Cantelo
Registered User
 
John Cantelo's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Canterbury, UK
Posts: 6,000
With a RRP of 1349, the 100-400mm isn't exactly cheap, but's its a good deal less expensive than I feared - in short its do-able!
__________________
John

Please support Andalucia Bird Society www.andalusiabirdsociety.org Visit my website & blog on birding in SW Spain at http://birdingcadizprovince.weebly.com/
John Cantelo is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 7th January 2016, 00:08   #44
njlarsen
Opus Editor
 
njlarsen's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Portsmouth, Dominica
Posts: 20,198
I also see one in my future. Just have to be sure that the extra lbs will not be a problem for me carrying it around.

Niels

(edit: the last sentence was a comparison to my present lens the 100-300, the new lens is about 1 lbs heavier)
__________________
Support bird conservation in the Caribbean: BirdCaribbean

Last edited by njlarsen : Thursday 7th January 2016 at 00:11.
njlarsen is online now  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Thursday 7th January 2016, 00:14   #45
Vespobuteo
Registered User

 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Utopia
Posts: 1,670
It's a reasonable size, and price,
if the image quality is as good as expected.

Really hope that the AF performance will be good enough
for birds in flight with the E-M1.
4 stops of in-lens IS would be nice to.

Would be using it mostly for documenting birds.
So it will probably be more suitable than the olympus 300/4 PRO.

This link has been posted before but there are some new interesting Questions and Answers in the
bottom of the page:

http://naturalexposures.com/leica-lumix-100-400mm/

Release date seem to be April...

Last edited by Vespobuteo : Thursday 7th January 2016 at 02:13.
Vespobuteo is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 8th January 2016, 07:27   #46
Vespobuteo
Registered User

 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Utopia
Posts: 1,670
speculating a bit on bokeh,
the DOF is actually a bit shorter for the leica at 400mm/6.3 than for the Olympus 300/4
at 10 meters it's 0.11 m vs 0.13 m,
at 300mm it's the opposite, obviously as the leica is only 5.6 at 300mm
this is pretty small differences and the actual focus lengths might not be exactly as stated.

The actual bokeh is another thing but short DOF and nice bokeh are related to some extent.

Seen some comments on the olympus 300/4 PRO that the bokeh might be a bit nervous in some situations.

But direct comparison is needed to draw any conclusions.

http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html

Last edited by Vespobuteo : Friday 8th January 2016 at 07:42.
Vespobuteo is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 12th January 2016, 14:07   #47
njlarsen
Opus Editor
 
njlarsen's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Portsmouth, Dominica
Posts: 20,198
A video of a pre-production lens: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sm2VL0D-hNs

About 25 sec into the video there is a period where he shows the back end of the lens. It seems to have a piece of glass all the way back, which indicates (unfortunately) that the oly 1.4x TC will not work.

Niels
__________________
Support bird conservation in the Caribbean: BirdCaribbean
njlarsen is online now  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Thursday 14th January 2016, 21:34   #48
Vespobuteo
Registered User

 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Utopia
Posts: 1,670
this is said to be test shots with the new 100-400 panasonic/leica lens

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/57093525
Vespobuteo is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 14th January 2016, 22:01   #49
njlarsen
Opus Editor
 
njlarsen's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Portsmouth, Dominica
Posts: 20,198
I am not sure what is meant by "early version of the lens"? Production or pre-production, and would one be better than the other?

Niels
__________________
Support bird conservation in the Caribbean: BirdCaribbean
njlarsen is online now  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Sunday 17th January 2016, 19:33   #50
Vespobuteo
Registered User

 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Utopia
Posts: 1,670
more test shots from a pre-production 100-400, looks nice, and bokeh looks good.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/bright...h/24313932182/
Vespobuteo is offline  
Reply With Quote
Advertisement
Reply


Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Looking for a new 300 or 400mm lens for a D90 flanken Nikon 21 Tuesday 31st August 2010 19:41
Problems at Leica? / Leica APO 62 / Lens coatings. WCA Leica 1 Tuesday 31st July 2007 16:48

{googleads}
£100 Cashback on Opticron DBA VHD Binoculars. Click to find out more.

Fatbirder's Top 1000 Birding Websites

Help support BirdForum

Page generated in 0.23245811 seconds with 35 queries
All times are GMT. The time now is 13:10.