Join for FREE
It only takes a minute!
Magnifying the passion for nature. Zeiss Victory Harpia 95. New!

Welcome to BirdForum.
BirdForum is the net's largest birding community, dedicated to wild birds and birding, and is absolutely FREE! You are most welcome to register for an account, which allows you to take part in lively discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old Thursday 27th August 2015, 18:10   #1
delia todd
Moderator but....... If I say the wrong thing put it down to Senior Moments
 
delia todd's Avatar

 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Perthshire
Posts: 210,950
Help me understand Shutter Priority

I've an HS50 and heard/read somewhere that it's best to use SP rather than AP for birding, so thought I'd give it a go, but don't really know what I'm doing... I'll never really be a photographer!!

Sometimes it seems OK and focuses very quickly on a bird in flight in the sky, where AP really struggled with that.

Where I'm confused is when the f# shows in red at the bottom of the screen, and I really don't know what to do to make it go white... or doesn't it matter?

I do seem to be getting some better results where there's sudden movement but it still seems to be luck, rather than judgement.

Is there a 'rule of thumb'.... flight shots against the sky; in a dark area under trees.... for example?
__________________
In between goals is a thing called life, that has to be lived and enjoyed

2006 63, 2007 52, 2008 46, 2009 32, 2010 31, 2011 27 Total 81

Latest Patch tick: Magpie

The only true wisdom is knowing you know nothing - Socrates
delia todd is online now  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Thursday 27th August 2015, 18:44   #2
Vespobuteo
Registered User

 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Utopia
Posts: 1,670
when freezing movement for fast moving subjects, shutter priority can be a good choice, at least 1/500-1/1000 of a second, or even faster, depends on distance to and speed of the subject,
but with a high shutter speed the aperture needs to be bigger, and the depth of field (DOF) will be smaller,
and if the camera auto focus is not doing the job, esp. at closer distances, the bird can be out of focus for that reason,

for different scenes sky/trees etc. I think it's more about AF-settings,
generally advanced DSLR:s have more flexibility in that area,

hope this helps,
Vespobuteo is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 27th August 2015, 18:58   #3
delia todd
Moderator but....... If I say the wrong thing put it down to Senior Moments
 
delia todd's Avatar

 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Perthshire
Posts: 210,950
Thanks Vespobuteo and Jos, I'll take a few minutes to try and absorb what you've both said.

I don't have a very technical brain unfortunately.
__________________
In between goals is a thing called life, that has to be lived and enjoyed

2006 63, 2007 52, 2008 46, 2009 32, 2010 31, 2011 27 Total 81

Latest Patch tick: Magpie

The only true wisdom is knowing you know nothing - Socrates
delia todd is online now  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Thursday 27th August 2015, 18:59   #4
Jos Stratford
Back again...
 
Jos Stratford's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Exile in East Europe
Posts: 15,329
I don't know your camera, but whether you are using SP or AP, it should not really effect the focussing ...that would be the focus setting you are choosing.

SP simply means you choose the shutter speed you wish to use and the camera will change the aperture to suit (of course if you choose too high a speed and the light is poor, then the camera will not be able to set an suitable aperture to get good exposure). Higher the speed, the lower the aperture (which reduces depth of field - which can have consequence how much is in focus)

If you choose AP, you set the aperture and the camera sets the speed. Almost certainly the camera will always find a suitable speed to give good exposure, but if the speed is very low, camera shake is possible and/or fast moving birds, etc, will be a blur).

I would guess AP is the easier option for you, set a relatively low aperture and the speed will be fine.
__________________
__________________
For photographs and articles, Lithuania and beyond, click here for my website
Jos Stratford is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2007 2009 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Thursday 27th August 2015, 19:06   #5
delia todd
Moderator but....... If I say the wrong thing put it down to Senior Moments
 
delia todd's Avatar

 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Perthshire
Posts: 210,950
Now... how did I manage to thank you before you posted Jos?
__________________
In between goals is a thing called life, that has to be lived and enjoyed

2006 63, 2007 52, 2008 46, 2009 32, 2010 31, 2011 27 Total 81

Latest Patch tick: Magpie

The only true wisdom is knowing you know nothing - Socrates
delia todd is online now  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Thursday 27th August 2015, 19:09   #6
Jos Stratford
Back again...
 
Jos Stratford's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Exile in East Europe
Posts: 15,329
Miracles, hoping the same for you understanding your camera

That and autopilot deleting instead of editing :)
__________________
For photographs and articles, Lithuania and beyond, click here for my website
Jos Stratford is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2007 2009 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Thursday 27th August 2015, 19:29   #7
ApusApus
Registered User
 
ApusApus's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Paphos, Cyprus
Posts: 1,604
Have a look at this Delia, seems others have had similar issues in the past!

https://www.flickr.com/groups/208277...7641323626524/


Shane
ApusApus is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 28th August 2015, 05:50   #8
ApusApus
Registered User
 
ApusApus's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Paphos, Cyprus
Posts: 1,604
Sorry Delia, just realised you're talking about the Fuji HS50 and not the Canon ........... teach me to read which sub-forum the post's in!


Shane
ApusApus is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 28th August 2015, 09:11   #9
delia todd
Moderator but....... If I say the wrong thing put it down to Senior Moments
 
delia todd's Avatar

 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Perthshire
Posts: 210,950
No worries Shane. It took me a few minutes to realise it was a different camera I was reading about in your link LOL!!
__________________
In between goals is a thing called life, that has to be lived and enjoyed

2006 63, 2007 52, 2008 46, 2009 32, 2010 31, 2011 27 Total 81

Latest Patch tick: Magpie

The only true wisdom is knowing you know nothing - Socrates
delia todd is online now  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Friday 28th August 2015, 17:21   #10
Paul Tavares
Registered User

 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jos Stratford View Post
I don't know your camera, but whether you are using SP or AP, it should not really effect the focussing ...that would be the focus setting you are choosing.

SP simply means you choose the shutter speed you wish to use and the camera will change the aperture to suit (of course if you choose too high a speed and the light is poor, then the camera will not be able to set an suitable aperture to get good exposure). Higher the speed, the lower the aperture (which reduces depth of field - which can have consequence how much is in focus)

If you choose AP, you set the aperture and the camera sets the speed. Almost certainly the camera will always find a suitable speed to give good exposure, but if the speed is very low, camera shake is possible and/or fast moving birds, etc, will be a blur).
__________________
Hi Delia

Have you tried setting the ISO to auto. As Jos mentioned, in SP the camera will try to select the appropriate aperture to get a proper exposure. As the light level drops, the aperture will increase to the largest available. If there is not enough light and the iso is set to a fixed value the aperture will flash red indicating an under exposure. If the iso is set to auto iso, depending on the camera's program, in poor light the camera will first increase the aperture to the maximum and if this is not enough will then start to increases the iso until proper exposure is achieved.

Paul

Last edited by Paul Tavares : Friday 28th August 2015 at 17:21. Reason: typo
Paul Tavares is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 28th August 2015, 17:44   #11
delia todd
Moderator but....... If I say the wrong thing put it down to Senior Moments
 
delia todd's Avatar

 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Perthshire
Posts: 210,950
Hi Paul

I've messed about with so many settings, I got completely lost. Recently, though, I seem to have got it set on 1600 Auto. Is that sort of what you mean?

It seems to raise and lower the ISO without me doing anything.

For instance, this picture which I'm quite pleased with, and I'm pretty sure wouldn't have got on AP:

Shutter priority
ISO 320
F4.5
1/800 sec

It was taken through the double glazing. I've not done anything with it except re-size for upload.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	DSCF0005 small.jpg
Views:	97
Size:	132.2 KB
ID:	555981  
__________________
In between goals is a thing called life, that has to be lived and enjoyed

2006 63, 2007 52, 2008 46, 2009 32, 2010 31, 2011 27 Total 81

Latest Patch tick: Magpie

The only true wisdom is knowing you know nothing - Socrates
delia todd is online now  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Friday 28th August 2015, 18:16   #12
Paul Tavares
Registered User

 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by delia todd View Post
Hi Paul
Recently, though, I seem to have got it set on 1600 Auto. Is that sort of what you mean?

It seems to raise and lower the ISO without me doing anything.
Yes that is the setting. The camera will adjust the ISO to suit when using SP. The 1600 means that it will stop at a maximum ISO of 1600. At that setting you may get more noise but at least the image will have less blur due to subject movement. You can also set it to Auto3200 or Auto800 depending on how much noise you can tolerate.

Paul
Paul Tavares is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 13th April 2016, 09:44   #13
Hari M
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Coimbatore
Posts: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by delia todd View Post
I've an HS50 and heard/read somewhere that it's best to use SP rather than AP for birding, so thought I'd give it a go, but don't really know what I'm doing... I'll never really be a photographer!!

Sometimes it seems OK and focuses very quickly on a bird in flight in the sky, where AP really struggled with that.

Where I'm confused is when the f# shows in red at the bottom of the screen, and I really don't know what to do to make it go white... or doesn't it matter?

I do seem to be getting some better results where there's sudden movement but it still seems to be luck, rather than judgement.

Is there a 'rule of thumb'.... flight shots against the sky; in a dark area under trees.... for example?
'Shutter Priority' mode lets you choose the shutter speed, while your camera will choose the optimum Aperture Value. This mode can be used for quick moving subjects; say, Sunbirds, Tailorbirds, etc. If the 'F' value is shown in red, it means that the camera isn't able to choose an optimum Aperture and the resulting picture could be over-exposed. If it so happens, either increase the shutter speed >or< reduce exposure by activating the Exposure Control button (marked +/-) >or< reduce ISO value (if not already at the lowest of 100).

On a clear bright day, if you shoot the subject with the sky as backdrop, manipulate the shutter speed and see how contrast and hue of the sky can be changed. In this case you should be able to use high shutter speeds effectively.

To use high shutter speeds in low light conditions (say a subject under a canopy of leaves), one may have to use higher ISO --- 800 is the maximum ISO at which I have got decent pictures in my 'HS50EXR'.

There is no thumb rule to follow. It is all about how much light hits the sensor and how you control the same.

I am no professional; just a hobbyist using the same make and model of camera that you have.

Thanks and regards,

Hari M
Hari M is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 13th April 2016, 10:29   #14
delia todd
Moderator but....... If I say the wrong thing put it down to Senior Moments
 
delia todd's Avatar

 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Perthshire
Posts: 210,950
Quote:
say, Sunbirds, Tailorbirds
I wish LOL. Little brown jobs flitting in amongst the leaves is what we get!!

Quote:
If the 'F' value is shown in red, it means that the camera isn't able to choose an optimum Aperture and the resulting picture could be over-exposed. If it so happens, either increase the shutter speed >or< reduce exposure by activating the Exposure Control button (marked +/-) >or< reduce ISO value (if not already at the lowest of 100).
Thank you so much Hari... that is really helpful.

I did move on to Sports Mode and continuous and this seems to be much better at focusing than my previous attempts last year (then I had to focus on something distant... like a tree... then look for the bird in the sky again!) Not ideal, obviously. But what you have said may give me the confidence to try again. I've attached a couple of pictures taken recently, the first is just re-sized, the second is a cropped version. Focus isn't 'perfect', but he was a bit distant as you can see.

The EXIF is:
Sports Mode
f6.4
1/900 sec
ISO 100 (programme chooses)
Exp bias +0.3
Focal length 130mm
Metering mode: Pattern

Is there a quick way to change the ISO? You can't do it in the Programme modes I've found. At one point i had it on 3200 Auto, with both SP and AP, but it seems to have been changed to 6400. Don't know when that happened!

Quote:
say, Sunbirds, Tailorbirds
I wish LOL. Little brown jobs flitting in amongst the leaves is what we get!!

Thanks too, Paul... I seem to have missed your post earlier.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	S0921547 Resized.jpg
Views:	53
Size:	50.0 KB
ID:	580772  Click image for larger version

Name:	S0921547 Cropped.jpg
Views:	56
Size:	97.4 KB
ID:	580773  
__________________
In between goals is a thing called life, that has to be lived and enjoyed

2006 63, 2007 52, 2008 46, 2009 32, 2010 31, 2011 27 Total 81

Latest Patch tick: Magpie

The only true wisdom is knowing you know nothing - Socrates
delia todd is online now  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Thursday 14th April 2016, 07:47   #15
Hari M
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Coimbatore
Posts: 11
[quote=delia todd;3385122]I wish LOL. Little brown jobs flitting in amongst the leaves is what we get!!



Thank you so much Hari... that is really helpful.

I did move on to Sports Mode and continuous and this seems to be much better at focusing than my previous attempts last year (then I had to focus on something distant... like a tree... then look for the bird in the sky again!) Not ideal, obviously. But what you have said may give me the confidence to try again. I've attached a couple of pictures taken recently, the first is just re-sized, the second is a cropped version. Focus isn't 'perfect', but he was a bit distant as you can see.

The EXIF is:
Sports Mode
f6.4
1/900 sec
ISO 100 (programme chooses)
Exp bias +0.3
Focal length 130mm
Metering mode: Pattern

Is there a quick way to change the ISO? You can't do it in the Programme modes I've found. At one point i had it on 3200 Auto, with both SP and AP, but it seems to have been changed to 6400. Don't know when that happened!

Hello Delia,

Sorry, I won't be able to help out, since I have never tried the Auto Modes with programmed settings. So far I have used only the Auto/EXR Auto/Shutter Priority/Aperture Priority/Manual, modes. Most often I use the Manual & Shutter Priority modes at sensitivities between ISO 100 & 800 (maybe on a rare occassion ISO 1600).

To change ISO setting in a jiffy, try the 'Q' button, if you haven't tried that yet !

You seem so passionate to try and know your camera inside out. Some day people in sub-forum 'HS50EXR' (me included) will be reverting to you for clearing doubts. You will go a long way.

Regards,

Hari M
Hari M is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 30th November 2016, 13:00   #16
earleybird
Registered User
 
earleybird's Avatar

 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Somerset
Posts: 1,022
Quick way to adjust ISO on the Fuji HS50 camera is to hit the Q button and ISO is the default first setting so just adjust your ISo with the Command dial.

couldn't resist adding a comment or two to this old thread in case others arrive here as I have .
Its a vast subject and there is masses of tutorials and guides around the net but hopefully these basic simple suggestions might prove helpful to someone that arrives at this thread.

Without a doubt the greater majority of bird photographers seem to prefer and recommend ‘A’ for Aperture mode for general bird photography (with the possible exception of in-flight Panning and other specialist shots.

The main reason for this is so that you can first set the Depth of Field (DOF) you require for a subject.
With birds shots an image is generally more pleasing when the photographer has placed the foreground and background out of focus (Bokeh) which highlights and focuses the viewers attention on the main subject which is the bird.

Even if we are aiming for 'envionment' type shots where instead of a closeup bird portrait we want to include some of the birds surroundings like a mossy branch etc then again we will still need to tell our camera exactly how much of the foreground and background we wish to include in our image.
This can only be achieved consistantly, by setting the Aperture first, hence shooting in Aperture mode.

If we wish to achieve a DOF that is short , (ie with less foreground and background in focus,) then we need to set our aperture to a low number like f/5 or f/5.6 This means our lens aperture is wide open and is gathering more of the available light. As a easy guide the smaller the F/ number the larger the lens aperture and the more light is hitting your sensor .

With a wide Aperture setting like f/5 the camera will focus on a shorter DOF (depth of field) which will throw the foreground and background out of focus.

So now that we have set our desired DOF we need to make sure that our camera has sufficient shutter speed to freeze the birds movement and get a clear detailed in focus image.
Here is a simple basic proceedure I follow when taking garden bird shots.

1. Set the Mode dial at A and adjust the aperture to f/5.6 as a starting point.

Now look through the viewfinder at your subject, (or an object in the same vicinity as the subject will be)
2. set your focal length (Zoom ) to frame your desired picture.

Now read the resultant shutter speed . You ideally need to aim for a shutter speed that is equal to your Focal length ,..ie if your zoom is set to 500mm then you should aim for a shutter speed of 1/500th of a second.( If the natural light levels are changing try to aim to adjust your settings and take the picture when light levels are sufficiently high to illuminate your subject .)

That said , if you are taking pictures in the Northern hemisphere like the UK with generally low light levels then that will usually be hard to achieve. As a general rule one should aim for a minimum of at least 1/120th of a second shutter speed if you wish to stand any chance of freezing the tiny movements of most birds and taking a well focused ,detailed, high quality image.

3. Adjust your ISO until the Shutter speed is fast enough ie at least 1/120

This is always going to be a trade off. If the ISO has to be too high in order to achieve sufficient shutter speed it could result in an unacceptably low image resolution so then you need to look to see where you can trade between the Aperture setting ,the Shutter speed or the ISO.
Remember one ‘stop ‘(click of adjustment) of any of these three settings will lose or gain you 1 stop of one of the other settings.


To maintain a minimum shutter speed and an acceptably low ISO you may need to increase your Aperture setting from say f/5.0 to f/5.6 or even f/6.0 . Naturally this will mean more of the foreground and background is going to be in focus in your picture.

If that is not acceptable then you are going to need to find some more light by either moving your subject somewhere where there is more light or using a simple light reflector . Using less zoom should allow more light into the lens enabling you to gain 1 or 2 stops which could be used to decrease your ISO or increase your shutter speed or increase your aperture settings.

Its all a trade off in the end but there are lots of tricks photographers can use to improve the odds to their advantage.
__________________
Flickr Fuji HS50 Users group
http://www.flickr.com/groups/2155651@N24/

Flickr Photostream http://www.flickr.com/photos/57957957@N08/

Last edited by earleybird : Wednesday 30th November 2016 at 13:17.
earleybird is offline  
Reply With Quote
Advertisement
Reply


Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Priority Daniel Philippe Books, Magazines, Publications, Video & DVD 18 Thursday 2nd May 2013 09:03
Aperture Vs. Shutter Speed Priority EsotericForest Cameras And Photography 18 Sunday 17th July 2011 08:00
Suitable HD compact camera with Aperture/Shutter Priority Mode Mgbirder Digiscoping cameras 5 Tuesday 27th April 2010 16:23
Nikon P5000 Shutter vs Aperture Priority Modes Skean Digiscoping cameras 7 Friday 11th May 2007 14:19
camera sharpening,A priority, S priority or neither?????? Paulyoly Camera Settings 6 Friday 20th June 2003 23:24

{googleads}

Fatbirder's Top 1000 Birding Websites

Help support BirdForum

Page generated in 0.22918391 seconds with 26 queries
All times are GMT. The time now is 14:54.