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Old Monday 11th January 2016, 12:00   #1
Chosun Juan
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Cool Canon EF 600mm f/4 DO BR lens

Exciting news!
Canon has shown a prototype 600mm f/4 Diffractive Optics lens at an Expo ~ 3 months ago .....

Confirmed details are as rare as rocking horse p**p, but by piecing together a few reports it seems that weight is around the 2.5kg mark, physical length less than 400mm, and has all the usual focus limiting ranges, and stability modes. Price will be $$$$?

I've always been fascinated by the DO series lenses compactness and more than handy weight savings. I think the new killer Nikon D500 and the big 'N' recently sending it's conventional 600mm f/4 to 1-800 Jenny is still going to sway me to stay in camp 'N' though .... especially since the Canon 7D MkII doesn't have an all important extra in-camera 1.3x crop factor .... had that been the case, this new 600 DO may just have persuaded me to jump ship over to camp 'C' provided the IQ holds up - especially with a TC attached

A few lynx
http://www.canonrumors.com/canon-ef-...at-canon-expo/
http://www.canonrumors.com/more-imag...f4-do-br-lens/
http://www.popphoto.com/canon-is-wor...t-optical-tech


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Old Monday 11th January 2016, 19:06   #2
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Won't surprised me if it cost close to 200-400mm f4L :p
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Old Monday 11th January 2016, 22:14   #3
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I think the cost will put it out off most people's reach.

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Old Tuesday 12th January 2016, 13:21   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GYRob View Post
I think the cost will put out off most people's reach.

Rob.
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Old Tuesday 12th January 2016, 21:32   #5
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If it ever surfaces then I expect the price will be pretty scary! But if it is good enough then I will be looking hard at getting one.
No I am not rich - I don't even earn enough to pay income tax (and get no benefits) but if it is a significant advance over my current Canon 800 F5.6 L is then I may well be shopping!
We will see?
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Old Sunday 30th October 2016, 07:48   #6
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Smile

More than a year after the original concept mockups surfaced, comes further updates to this enticing proposition, due for release in late 2017 .....
http://www.canonrumors.com/canon-ef-...late-2017-cr2/

Also exciting, is the mention of later upgrades to the other "big whites" involving reduced weight, improved coatings, and IS systems .....

Canon had been busy with all sorts of other delicious patents as they watch the growing 'prosumer' DLSR Super telephoto Zoom market take off ....
A 200-600 f4.5-5.6 DO IS zoom http://www.canonrumors.com/patent-ca...m-f4-5-5-6-is/
And a mirror less option 600 f5.6 DO IShttp://www.canonrumors.com/patent-ca...mm-f5-6-do-is/

All bases covered then! Now we just need the product .....

Oh, the possibilities!


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Old Sunday 30th October 2016, 18:22   #7
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It will probably be a lot cheaper to employ someone to carry your kit for you rather than go down the DO route for a 600mm
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Old Monday 31st October 2016, 15:45   #8
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Red face EDIT: typo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chosun Juan View Post
....
A 200-600 f4.5-5.6 DO IS zoom http://www.canonrumors.com/patent-ca...m-f4-5-5-6-is/
Ooops! Sorry folks, bit of a typo here, and it's too late to go back and edit .... looks like the zoom supertele is conventional tech, not DO.

I'm glad it's 600mm aperture is as fast as f5.6 though ..... makes for a handy, and surprisingly big in practice improvement over the competition's f6.3

Now, if Canon will only add a 1.33x in-camera crop to the 7DMkII ......


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Old Monday 31st October 2016, 20:08   #9
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It will probably be a lot cheaper to employ someone to carry your kit for you rather than go down the DO route for a 600mm
Trust me its not! My wife costs me a fortune.
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Old Monday 31st October 2016, 20:09   #10
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Trust me its not! My wife costs me a fortune.
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Old Sunday 6th November 2016, 14:11   #11
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Exclamation

The mention of weight reduction and other (coating, IS) improvements to the "other" big whites sounds fascinating too. I wonder what degree of weight reduction of the MkII series is possible, and how it will be achieved?

More Fluorite (crystals, or glass) could bring some reductions, and/or finessing the old skool die cast mag tech might bring a little more, but more significant reductions would require a change to a CFRP (carbon fibre reinforced plastic) chassis I would think ?? This would be massive! We could be looking at 10~20% reductions .....

The traditional refractive optical trains should continue to offer preferable bokeh, so surely such a diet would place downward price pressure on the DO range? ....... hopefully!

Nikon only just recently managed to get down to the MkII L weights with their FL models (porky laggard 300mmf2.8 notwithstanding! :). If they want to match it with Canon, they are going to have to seriously get cracking again, and will also have to come out with a 600mm f4 PF (phase fresnel) .....

My "Buy" finger is getting itchy ---- Hurry Up guys!!


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Old Friday 7th July 2017, 13:17   #12
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Question

Any further news on when a 600mm f4 DO BR is likely to land?
Apart from a patent filed last year, I've heard exactly nuffin about this lens.
If the rumoured late 2017 time frame is still to be believed then they are holding things v-e-r-y close to their chests ......

Although not slated in that order, I would have thought that market dynamics would have dictated that the 200-600mm f4.5-5.6 IS zoom would have arrived first, but things are equally silent on that front too ....

I'd think if Canon are serious about leading the market then a 7d mark iii body that shows clear advantage over the Nikon D500 should be released too ....


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Old Friday 7th July 2017, 23:27   #13
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I sincerely doubt the "mythical" 600mm DO will be announced in 2017, and I suspect it may be more like 2018, if at all. It would likely be a popular albeit very expensive lens, with cost estimates in USD between $15-20K. There's currently a thread in the Canon forum on the Fred Miranda site about this lens...

What one one seems to realize is that all of the Canon L super-telephotos, and that includes the green ringed DO, are made by only a very select few master optical engineers at Canon in Japan. When the Series II DO lens came out several yars ago, there was a multi-month wait for it because they were only 3 technicians building them. I will say though that from personal experience, it's worth it...
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Old Saturday 8th July 2017, 04:12   #14
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Thanks Chris, is this the Fred Miranda thread you are referring to? http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1497994/0

It is interesting that some of the prototypes shown from Canon rumours and in the above thread have a "Red ring". Perhaps the inclusion of fluorite elements as well where appropriate could bring further weight reductions. Some of the weight estimates in the FM thread at ~7lb and up seem a bit pessimistic to me, given that the CR link in my post#6 also stated that Canon are working on updates (including weight reduction) to the other "big whites" as well.

I'm hoping they can bring it in somewhere more like 2.73kg (6lb) - 2.95kg (6&1/2lb) .....

It probably would be made at Canon's Utsunomiya Plant but wouldn't be limited to the handful of Optical Masters there (they focus on Broadcast lenses, training 'apprentices' and specifying standards and techniques for the machine design section). The Japanese way is very much one of "cost down" through continuous improvement, and I see no reason why this lens couldn't list at USD 12999 .....

Like you I don't think we'll see a 2017 consumer release (maybe some preproduction beta test models for engineering trials, and then maybe a few select photographers for shakedown), more likely a select few might get their hands on early production runs for the 2018 Winter Olympics.

I'm invested in Nikon atm, and hope that they seriously pull their fingers out to match this, otherwise it's over to canon! ...... I can't wait!


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Old Monday 10th July 2017, 02:46   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chosun Juan View Post
..... It is interesting that some of the prototypes shown from Canon rumours and in the above thread have a "Red ring". Perhaps the inclusion of fluorite elements as well where appropriate could bring further weight reductions. Some of the weight estimates in the FM thread at ~7lb and up seem a bit pessimistic to me, given that the CR link in my post#6 also stated that Canon are working on updates (including weight reduction) to the other "big whites" as well.

I'm hoping they can bring it in somewhere more like 2.73kg (6lb) - 2.95kg (6&1/2lb) ..... .....
I think this new wonder lens will have to be CLEARLY HAND HOLDABLE in order for it to have any widespread rationale and market (otherwise, being shorter, it is just a more convenient hand luggage super telephoto that would mostly require tripod mounting or some other sturdy support). I hope they remember to concentrate on reducing the minimum focus distance too.

Even accounting for the advantages of shortness, it will still have to be under 3kg (6.6lb). More preferable would be 2.73kg (6lb) or dreaming now, less. This is going to take some pretty advanced engineering, and every trick in the book, and then some ....

The double sided diffractive element sandwiched gaplessly between thin glass will have to be located well back from the front as in the 400mm DO IS ii which has received great performance reviews. Thin lens technology will be a must. Fluorite lenses (lighter) where appropriate will also be essential.

Beyond this the chassis engineering is going to have to be highly sophisticated - perhaps even using materials like carbon fiber/ carbon fiber reinforced plastics, as well as advanced lightweight metals such as magnesium and titanium.

I would think anything over 3.18kg (7lb) would be a real disappointment and a deal breaker for those looking to hand hold. Down to 2.73kg (6lb) would make it usable hand held for decent lengths of time, even all day.

At 2.73kg (6lb) and under, a 600mm f4 would absolutely turn the market on its head, and open up bird photography especially to many many more people.

C'mon Canon! (....... are you paying attention here Nikon? Your little 300mm PF is just not going to cut it ....)


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Old Monday 10th July 2017, 22:11   #16
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With the 600mm f4 Mk2 selling at $11,499 in the USA and 11,349 ( =$14,000 US ) my guess is a 600mm f4 DO will be close to $20k. I was told a while back that it's being field tested but how true that is I couldn't confirm.
So unless you are prepared to shell out a small fortune I would consider a 400mm DO and a TC instead if you want lightweight and reach.

PS If you were thinking Australian Dollars, the UK equivalent for a 600mm MK2 is $19,200AUS although currently you can buy in Australia for $14,500 which is a bit less expensive than the USA.
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Old Tuesday 11th July 2017, 05:51   #17
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Dave, a 560 f5.6 DO IS II ultimately won't cut it against a 600 f4L DO IS III ......

The 600 f4L IS II is widely available for ~ 12500 -14000 AUD retail out here (retail finally seems to be getting more sorted here in response to global business), and given that the 300 f2.8L IS II + 1.4x TC III is about the same cost as a 400 f4 DO II IS, then I can see no reason why the new 600 f4 DO would not be in the ballpark of the 600 f4L IS II ??

I would imagine with the coming upgrades (weight reduction, improved coatings and IS system) to the 600 f4L IS III (also likely to be incorporated into the DO) and with the superior bokeh of the refractive lens, that Canon would want to still keep this as the flagship line.

There may be a small cost increase for all the extra hi-tech magnesium, titanium, and carbon fibery? lightweight goodness, though electronics always reduce in price following Moore's Law, and there would be savings from less material, and you would think improved production processes, so I would expect that to be small, maybe retailing for USD 12-12.5K.

That would put the new 600 f4 DO at < USD 13K ..... so about the same in , and ~ 14K AUD or less. Very worthwhile as a once off investment for a hand holdable 600mm f4 DO.

Do you have any more info on the units being field tested? materials? weight? dimensions? IS system details? .....

Thanks.


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Old Tuesday 11th July 2017, 09:07   #18
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Chosuan,I don't have any details about the field test, I was only told it was happening and if and when it came on the market it would be expensive.Very expensive.
Prices have risen sharply in the UK for whatever reason including the value of the falling against the US $.
It's interesting though that a 600mm lens in Australia from Digidirect is 14,500 Australian dollars which is 8564, or nearly 3000 less than the UK. I presumed the Australian price includes tax?
Currently the same lens is just over 8000 from Hong Kong but you need to add 20% import duties . Still cheaper than UK price but you don't get a European warranty which for some is a problem.
Maybe it will cost less in Australia when they bring out a 600mm DO and maybe the wildlife photography tourist trade will get a mysterious bump as a result!
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Old Tuesday 11th July 2017, 10:51   #19
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Dave, 12-14K is expensive! Very expensive!

That additional 40mm reach, and 1 f-stop over the 400 f4 DO II IS + 1.4x TC III is going to cost an extra ~ 67% !!!

In Australia all products (sold here or imported) attract a 10% tax (GST). From July this year, this now applies from products over $0 (as opposed to the previous $1000 GST free limit - though this never benefitted goods over $1000 anyway). Retailers here now have to compete globally on a level playing field.

You can get the big white Canon 600mm f4L IS II USM from long established Australian camera store Ted's Cameras for instance, for a smidge less than 14000 AUD including GST, or maybe less if there is a genuine competitor's offer. This is genuine official Australian stock that comes standard with a 2 year warranty.

Our dollar (AUD) currently sits at around 0.59GBP, 0.67Euro, 0.76USD, and 0.87Yen.

Perhaps if our retailers have sorted out better terms and more efficient supply chains then Super telephoto tourism might just become a thing! .... much in the same way as cosmetic surgery tourism to Thailand functions, come to Oz to buy a big white and have a week or two's photography holiday thrown in gratis! :)

If Canon can get the weight down to under 3kg (6&1/2 lb) , I could imagine these 600 f4 DO's having longer wait times than Ferrari's ........

Keep your ears to the ground folks, I would love to hear the materials, specs, and optical details of this beauty


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Old Saturday 29th July 2017, 15:14   #20
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A rather bizarre rumour from July 19th on Canon Rumors sourced from CR (Canon Rumors!? :), saying nothing much in particular new .... maybe we will see a release later this year, maybe next year in time for the Winter Olympics. https://www.canonrumors.co/two-new-s...unced-in-2018/

Anyone with any more substantial! :) mail?


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Old Saturday 21st October 2017, 08:08   #21
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Unhappy

More DO lenses coming in 2018 .... I sure hope we don't have to wait another year for the 600!
http://www.canonrumors.com/multiple-...n-in-2018-cr2/



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Old Sunday 22nd October 2017, 03:06   #22
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If/when the Canon 600 F Br DO comes out what will it offer over the current 600 F4 L IS Mk2?

If Canon can shave off a significant amount of weight, say 800 to 1000 grams, then it will be a very tempting lens! I know that does not sound a lot but I went from the 600 F4 L IS to the 800 F5.6 L IS to save 800 grams - it makes a big difference! Unfortunately I think that Canon's current pricing policy will put this lens out of the reach of mere mortals.
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Old Sunday 22nd October 2017, 04:17   #23
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If/when the Canon 600 F Br DO comes out what will it offer over the current 600 F4 L IS Mk2?

If Canon can shave off a significant amount of weight, say 800 to 1000 grams, then it will be a very tempting lens! I know that does not sound a lot but I went from the 600 F4 L IS to the 800 F5.6 L IS to save 800 grams - it makes a big difference! Unfortunately I think that Canon's current pricing policy will put this lens out of the reach of mere mortals.
John, as per the above football kicking, it would seem that a new 600mm f4 DO would come in anywhere from ~2.7kg(6lb) - 3.15kg(<7lb) ..... so a saving of ~1200 grams to ~800grams - hopefully toward the greater end of weight savings. There is also importantly a length reduction as well as movement of the centre of mass rewards. It should be hand holdable and a big improvement for BIF. As per the 400 it should also take a 1.4xTC quite well.

I fully expect the new DO to come in under 3kg - I 'd suggest anything more would be a deal breaker considering the Big Whites are also rumored to be going on a diet of an unspecified amount along with other improvements for the Mark III version (see post#6 above). The new DO at 2.7kg or less would be simply sensational!



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Old Sunday 22nd October 2017, 15:19   #24
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As per the 400 it should also take a 1.4xTC quite well.

Chosun
Quite well at that price simply isn't good enough IMO. I would expect excellent results and with the 2x as well.
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Old Sunday 22nd October 2017, 15:49   #25
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Yes Dave, I agree - I meant just as well as the 400 DO ISII, and indeed the refractive 600 L ISII, both of which are excellent - virtually imperceptible loss of IQ and AF performance. I hope the performance with the 2XTC is excellent as well.



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