[Alf King]

Having recently been fortunate to visit Sri Lanka on a birding holiday I was suprised by the numbers of guides and trackers who commonly carried tapes and tape-players to lure out the more secretive birds. On a personal point of principle I requested all of the guides not to use tapes as I believe that such use is detrimental to the welfare of the birds that are being sought. On the other hand when reading the many trip reports on Sri Lanka and elsewhere i noted that many of the listers were also using tapes as a matter of routine.

Am I right in wanting to avoid their use or am I being over-sensitive? Are the listers that use the tapes being selfish or are they taking a valued view of the benefits and costs?

[NickH]

Alf,

The debate over tape lures will never be resolved. Both sides insist they are right, but I'm with you on this one. If you feel its wrong make your feelings known.

[CJW]

As Nick says, there are two sides to the argument and neither will concede any ground. All you can do is what you feel to be right for the situation.

[jurek]

Hello,

You cannot tell unless you are in Sri Lanka and know how many times individual bird is "taped", if it disturbs it and if tape-twitching profits ecotourism and profits conservation or not.

IMHO, you shall judge every case separately - generalisations "taping is good" or "taping is bad" are both wrong.

[CornishExile]

Originally Posted by jurek

Hello,

You cannot tell unless you are in Sri Lanka and know how many times individual bird is "taped", if it disturbs it and if tape-twitching profits ecotourism and profits conservation or not.

IMHO, you shall judge every case separately - generalisations "taping is good" or "taping is bad" are both wrong.

True, but in either case it's all about convenience for the tape-lurer.

[nigelblake]

While I personally would not use taping I don't really see that taped calls would have any different effect than that of a rival bird singing in the area.

[jurek]

Originally Posted by CornishExile

True, but in either case it's all about convenience for the tape-lurer.

Well, not really. People won't come to watch invisible nature.

You can also say that a good watchtower in a bird reserve is all about convenience for the visitor, but it also can help (or harm) conservation - isn't it?

And who knows - maybe chasing away tape recorder helps the bird ego?

Really, without letter from Sri Lanka we will not know.

[Rasmus Boegh]

THE USE OF PLAYBACK

You really need to judge each case separately, but should always follow local restrictions (some areas/reserves don’t allow playback). Recently, there was a lengthy discussion on a scientific Neotropical board and the conclusion reached was comparable to the following:

First, there apparently have been NO THOROUGH SCIENTIFIC SURVEYS actually checking the possible effect playback has on birds. Overall, most scientists agree that playback if done using common sense, pose few problems. The big problem often arise when people keep on playing the tape endlessly - if the bird doesn't react after 15 seconds or so, forget it and stop. And if a bird reacts let it be, no continuous driving it back and forth causing far more stress than needed. If done in a sensible manner, the bird will think another individual entered its territory, but it rapidly got chased out, and it will continue with its usual life almost immediately afterwards. Note that this happens naturally on a daily basis in most bird species, and really doesn't pose a big problem in that case (playback is basically imitating nature). Special caution should be taken when dealing with rare birds or birds during the breeding season, and regularly a complete "no" to playback may be the best approach in those situations. Furthermore, areas visited continuously by birders pose a particular problem. In areas (both in the Neotropics and in Asia; I'm sure elsewhere too) where playback is used more or less continuously, it has been observed that birds get "played out". They quite simply don't respond anymore. On the other hand there is no proof that the birds actually disappear (but again note that no thorough scientific surveys have been done, meaning that we don't know for sure). However, in my opinion the question isn't if the birds actually disappear. The fact that their behaviour is significantly altered should be enough to ban it completely in those cases. So, in the end I have no prob's using playback - and yes - have used it in various parts of the World. If you ever are to use it, check above and follow the basic rules – common sense is the clue…

[Edward woodwood]

excellent stuff from Rasmus again. nothing to add really

regarding Sri Lanka - people often go for a quick trip and therefore use tapes. I went there for three weeks last year on public transport and had no trouble at all without tapes, however i did whistle a couple of birds out. It is damn hard to see the Spurfowl and Whitslingthrush without a tape but is perfectly possible and much more fulfilling if you manage it

Tim

[Grousemore]

Originally Posted by Tim Allwood

It is damn hard to see the Spurfowl and Whitslingthrush without a tape but is perfectly possible and much more fulfilling if you manage it

Tim

That would be my position on a general basis; I don't want to use artificial aids to see birds, just doesn't appeal to me.
For those that do though, I agree that Rasmus has set out the guidelines very clearly.

[Alf King]

A very helpful reply from Rasmus, thank you.

In my personal opinion I don't like to see tapes being used, especially just for a "quick tick" for which I believe some (not all) visiting birders may be guilty. The pressure is often on the gudes/trackers to produce the bird in the hope of a better tip, I suppose, so the judgement of the birder will be the deciding factor. It has been rumoured that companies such as Baur's, for example, provide their guides with tapes and players in order to be able to achieve their target number of birds in the trip.

BTW I did find Whistling Thrush without tapes. Missed out on Spurfowl and Breen Billed Coucal, but that's just a good excuse to return.

[Steve G]

This is a complex issue.
Rain-forest birding esp. in the Neotropics can be soul-destroying fruitless hard work. Many birders, both "casual" & diehard will pay top dollar to visit species-rich sites living in expensive Eco lodges & employing local people as guides. Set-ups like this are under pressure to deliver the goods & tape-lures are thus used. On the face of it such practice attracts critiscism however, clients have serious expectations of seeing at least some of the skulkers & pay for the privilege ( what chance have you of seeing Ant-pittas or Tapaculos otherwise!). The money earned supports local people who can then see the direct benefits of habitat conservation, some of the money earned can be used to purchase more land to extend protected areas. Systems like this are in operation in Ecuador for example. Tape-luring is coordinated & undertaken by local guides who limit exposure & know the birds (often individually). Sites used for tape-luring are alternated & the whole process is controlled with no obvious detriment to individual birds & obvious long term benefits to the habitat & bird populations as a consequence of investment. I can see no problem with this type of tape-luring & rather than tape-luring being looked upon as some evil practice it should be viewed as a valuable tool in the field when used sensitively & with discrimination.
At the risk of weakening the above argument I should add that I have not personally been to Ecuador but a colleague has & the set-up indicated above is what he describes as happening at lodges such as Sacha lodge, San Isidro & Tandayapa, though perhaps others on Birdforum have personal experience of these places.

[Edward woodwood]

on the plus side

Sinharaja forest has banned use of tapes

I did see Green-billed Coucal but it took a whole week nearly. Obviously tour groups don't mave that time and the punters need to be kept happy

Tim

[timills]

Having used tapes/minicds for a good number of years on trips to SE Asia and South America I would say that many of the best birds of these trips ie Pittas, Antpittas and general skulkers were seen as a direct result of using playback. I wouldn’t go on a foreign trip without recording equipment. If you have plenty of time then tapes are less necessary but it can take days to see one species although banning of tapes at certain sites is totally justified eg Khao Nor Chuchi where we sat on the forest floor on and off for 2 days trying not to move before seeing Gurneys Pitta. Playback is often unsuccessful at stake outs – the birds have probably heard the same tape with the same background noises so many times they just learn to ignore it. I think using playback reduces disturbance on habitat and bird populations as a whole, since birders head for a stake out and focus their attentions on one area/pair of birds.
Regarding techniques for successful use of playback I always thought a quick couple of bursts was enough to see if the bird was responsive but a guide at La Selva in Ecuador (about 7 years ago) played the tape almost non stop for 20-30 minutes before eventually gaining response and subsequently seeing such birds as Cocha Antshrike, Zigzag Heron and Long-tailed Pottoo.

Ian

[Jos Stratford]

Originally Posted by Tim Allwood

on the plus side

Sinharaja forest has banned use of tapes

I did see Green-billed Coucal but it took a whole week nearly. Obviously tour groups don't mave that time and the punters need to be kept happy

On the negative side, the guides were ignoring the ban. I agree with the general concensus in several posts - an isolated, one-off use of a tape lure probably is of little consequence to an individual bird, but repeated use is more likely to be an issue. Problem is, in many cases, some guides take their many clients to the same individual bird time after time and, eager to ensure a good trip for the birder, are only to happy to use a tape. Guides were doing this for the spurfowl, owlet and frogmouth at Sinharaja whilst I was there. Pretty much the same at Kitulgala. At Kitulgala, I found the Owlet, Coucal and Frogmouth very easily without the use of a tape and the best place is the 'River Lounge', a relatively new place. The owner is friendly and understood the 'pull' of his place were the Frogmouths and Coucals in his garden and also understood repeated use of taping could lead to the loss of these birds, so was not keen to have 'over-use' of tapes - that said, he didn't want to risk losing Baur's and let them use tapes when they turned up. Perhaps any birders visiting could give him a friendly reminder, he'd be very open to your comments.

As with Tim, I didn't use tapes (or guides) and saw all the expected birds (and more). That said, I was on the island for a month and had plenty of time to spend many days at some sites that normally tour groups do in a single day or two.

[Woodchatshrike]

[quote=Rasmus Boegh]THE USE OF PLAYBACK

The big problem often arise when people keep on playing the tape endlessly - if the bird doesn't react after 15 seconds or so, forget it and stop.

I remember I tried twitching a Melodious Warbler at St Abbs head a couple of years ago and a guy played the tape at full volume and over and over again. The melodious had moved on of course. Other birders were just encouraging the bloke with the tape.
There was another twitch years before when somebody was using a tape but it was tape with a person intoducing the birds. He had it on loud and he left the tape running and all you could here was 'Marsh Warbler' being blurted out through the speaker.
I have benefited from tape luring in Eastern Europe but I generally don't bother. I am not opposed but I think caution and as a last resort are the best way to look at this.

[Edward woodwood]

Originally Posted by Jos Stratford

At Kitulgala, I found the Owlet, Coucal and Frogmouth very easily without the use of a tape and the best place is the 'River Lounge', a relatively new place. The owner is friendly and understood the 'pull' of his place were the Frogmouths and Coucals in his garden and also understood repeated use of taping could lead to the loss of these birds, so was not keen to have 'over-use' of tapes - that said, he didn't want to risk losing Baur's and let them use tapes when they turned up. Perhaps any birders visiting could give him a friendly reminder, he'd be very open to your comments..

sisira's river lodge is the place
top guy
amazing food - he was a chef in a big London Hotel
the birds are fairly 'easy' there and as Jos says you don't need tapes
I wasn't aware of the place when i arrived in Kitulgala but stumbled across it being to tight to pay the tourist price elsewhere. Hopefully it will become a standard spot on the itinerary now

Tim

[Jos Stratford]

Originally Posted by Tim Allwood

sisira's river lodge is the place

It was only on the last day when I noticed it is actually Sisira's River Lounge (not lodge), but whatever the name, absolutely the best place to stay ...even though by Sri Lankan standards it's a bit in the expensive side (but other places in Kitulgala are even more expensive!)

[Rasmus Boegh]

Originally Posted by Steve G

At the risk of weakening the above argument I should add that I have not personally been to Ecuador but a colleague has & the set-up indicated above is what he describes as happening at lodges such as Sacha lodge, San Isidro & Tandayapa, though perhaps others on Birdforum have personal experience of these places.

I have spend a significant amount of time at above mentioned localities. The only places in Ecuador that seriously have tried to limit the use of playback are the reserves linked to the Ridgely's et al's Jocotoco foundation. Others have tried to do it aswell, but with less consistency.