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Old Tuesday 31st May 2016, 10:53   #1
VlkStinu
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Celestron Regal M2 + Baader Hyperion: 17 or 13mm?

Hi everyone!

I've been reading a lot of positive reviews on upgrading Celestron Regal M2 ED series to Baader Hyperion fixed eyepieces and I decided to give it a go. The zoom eyepiece that goes with Celestron is quite good, but I've been always reading advantages of fixed eyepieces and Baader seems to give a really nice quality for relatively small price.

I have a Celestron Regal M2 100ED, which means that Baader Hyperion 13mm would give me around 41x magnification, whereas 17mm Hyperion would offer around 31x magnification.

Now, I know, that more doesn't always necessarily mean better. In fact, in birding and optics it is the other way around, from what I gathered. But I guess it is in human nature to always be tempted by the "greater" option. And so I am wondering here - what would you recommend in this case? Should I go for 17mm as 31x magnification will be just enough for large number of various situations/conditions/habitats and will give still enough brightness and sharpness or to go with the "greater" option and have 13mm one?

Also, and that is a little more specific question, though not offtopic - will I be able to screw my DSLR camera with T2 ring adapter onto Baader eyepiece as it is possible with Celestron zoom eyepiece?

Thank you in advance for any tips and info!
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Old Tuesday 31st May 2016, 14:51   #2
jring
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Hi,

I found reports in the german juelich forum of sb successfully using the M2 100ED with Hyperions of 8 and 5mm.
So 17 and 13mm should work too since the hyperion series in 1.25 " is mostly parfocal but 17 and 13mm are quite conservative with binocular style exit pupils of 3.3 or 2.5mm. Spottings scopes are usually fine down to 1mm exit pupil which is 100x in your case, even less for astro use. On the other hand seeing conditions might make 100x impossible at times.

So if you just want a wide angle ep for scanning the 17mm with 31x and 38/1000m field is a classic.
If you want to have your cake and eat it too, you could go for the not much more expensive Explore Scientific 14mm 82 deg eyepiece which would give 38x at 38/1000m...

http://www.bresser.de/en/Astronomy/A...14mm-1-25.html

The drawback with the latter is rather limited eye relief of 14mm or so, so if you have to wear glasses while using the scope, the Hyperions are better. And of course no T2 adapter thread on this.

The fixed 1.25" Hyperions can also be changed in focal length using one or two fine tuning rings or by removing the front element. See

http://www.baader-planetarium.de/com...cription_e.pdf

for an explanation. This changes the focal point the EP though, so the changed EP might not come into focus in a spotting scope with limited focus travel. On the other hands the rings are rather cheap.

Regards,

Joachim
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Old Tuesday 31st May 2016, 16:35   #3
VlkStinu
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Thank you very much for your answer!

So all in all, would you recommend rather the 17mm over 13mm for most situations? Would I gain something by choosing 13mm? I know that in binoculars, going for 12x42 will not really give you much, on the contrary, it can make the picture really unstable, so you see things larger, but not steady, therefore the visual information you are getting is much worse than with 8x42 or 10x42. But that issue is going away on a spotting scope as it is attached to a tripod. So the only thing and issue I could think of is the brightness and sharpness of the image. I know that with the current zoom eyepiece I have, I am very often drawn to crank up the magnification to at least 40-50x, because I just want to see what exactly I am looking at and from my experience, birds are usually small and far away. :-))

However, on the zoom eyepiece of Celestron, the brightness seems to be really going down on higher magnifications and the picture is much more hard to look at as it's going out of focus in some parts and focusing the subject perfectly seems to be impossible at times. So identification of various birds can be quite hard, if not impossible, if they are more distant. But this maybe wouldn't be the issue with fixed eyepiece?

And the other issue I could think of is that finding the bird in the terrain is of course easier at lower magnifications and maybe with 41x magnification, it could be a big hassle?

I am tempted for the 13mm, since for the general scanning I already have my 10x42 binoculars (and just my eyes of course :-) ) and for the middle magnification, I can use the zoom eyepiece, which is very good at 20x-30x mag. The question is if I wouldn't be often forced to change the eyepiece, beucause the 41x would be just too much? But that is maybe a needless concern?

I have a vision that I would just take my binoculars and my scope out in the terrain and that I would be switching between those two without any greater hassle (and ideally without really switching the eyepiece on the scope too much).

Maybe the best thing would be to take my scope and just go to the local store and try these two options for myself. :-) I was just curious to hear some thoughts from other birders who have experience with Baader eyepieces and Celestron scopes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jring View Post
Hi,

I found reports in the german juelich forum of sb successfully using the M2 100ED with Hyperions of 8 and 5mm.
So 17 and 13mm should work too since the hyperion series in 1.25 " is mostly parfocal but 17 and 13mm are quite conservative with binocular style exit pupils of 3.3 or 2.5mm. Spottings scopes are usually fine down to 1mm exit pupil which is 100x in your case, even less for astro use. On the other hand seeing conditions might make 100x impossible at times.

So if you just want a wide angle ep for scanning the 17mm with 31x and 38/1000m field is a classic.
If you want to have your cake and eat it too, you could go for the not much more expensive Explore Scientific 14mm 82 deg eyepiece which would give 38x at 38/1000m...

http://www.bresser.de/en/Astronomy/A...14mm-1-25.html

The drawback with the latter is rather limited eye relief of 14mm or so, so if you have to wear glasses while using the scope, the Hyperions are better. And of course no T2 adapter thread on this.

The fixed 1.25" Hyperions can also be changed in focal length using one or two fine tuning rings or by removing the front element. See

http://www.baader-planetarium.de/com...cription_e.pdf

for an explanation. This changes the focal point the EP though, so the changed EP might not come into focus in a spotting scope with limited focus travel. On the other hands the rings are rather cheap.

Regards,

Joachim

Last edited by VlkStinu : Tuesday 31st May 2016 at 16:44.
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Old Tuesday 31st May 2016, 20:10   #4
jring
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Hi,

you can go higher mag than 41x without problems on a 100mm scope. The usual rule is max magnification is at least the obective aperture, so 100x in your case. I a pinch, 1.5 or 2 times can be used, the latter only on bright objects like moon or planets. And then there's seeing which will limit the maximum useful magnification for a given day and place...

I don't own a Celestron spotting scope but an old Kowa TSN-3 which will not take astro EPs without machining but I can use it with a bright & contrasty image at 54x (highest the zoom I use can do). I'm quite sure that given a shorter EP I could go at least up to 80x.

I also own an Evostar 80ED which is an 80mm f7.5 ED doublet astro scope. I have often use this with a 5mm Nagler EP for 120x, which is nice terrestially and have used it at times with a Barlowed Baader zoom at 170x or so. The latter is certainly a bit over the top unless you look at very bright objects like the moon or planets.

So if you want high mag on your Celestron 100mm scope, a 5mm EP for 100x and change should work ok. Going to a store or your closest astro group to test some EPs is highly recommended... as I mentioned spotting scopes usually have limited focus travel compared to astro refractors with usually like 5 or 7 cm, and thus might not come to focus with some EPs, so being able to try it is a good idea. Remember that if you should ever want to use the scope astronomically you need some focus travel beyond the next church tower ;-)

Joachim
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Old Sunday 5th June 2016, 14:09   #5
JakeM
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Hello. I have the 80 mm Regal and use the 13 mm Baader with a Barlow which gives me an end result of about 70x. The image is still quite sharp and bright enough on sunny days. I find that I need this power to pull out many ids at the distances that I deal with. On rare occasions in very windy conditions, I do find that 70x, even though tripod mounted and a somewhat heavy scope, quite problematic. Hope this helps. Jake.
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Old Monday 13th June 2016, 04:37   #6
Nixterdemus
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I have the M2 100mm and I bought the Celestron Luminos 82* [Nagler clone] 15mm/36X & 7mm/77X at almost $72 apiece new TTD. They both work great. I use the 36X for running down byrds on wing. I picked up a small fluid video head for the M2. The 77X is clean whether I'm counting chips on a T-bar at over 100 yds or peering at the moon.
These eyepieces are most modest in comparison to the Baader offerings. I think me views are so fine in part due to not pushing the eyepieces at anywhere near the magnifications that some telescopes employ. I've read some mention FC, but I'm seeing none w/focus across the flat view save the very edge.
Someone in a quick review claimed 5mm/108X looked good. I have another eyepiece on order as I'm anxious to stretch me legs a mite past 77X.
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Old Thursday 14th July 2016, 17:20   #7
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The Luminos 82* 15/mm/36X [26mm field stop] works so well that I've ordered a meade 100* 10mm/54X. Replacing the 15mm 82* w/10mm 100* nets 18X losing little fov especially at 35-40' on feeder patrol.

A 100* 12mm fov is roughly the same as a 82* 15mm. Comes to about the same at 3mm.
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Old Thursday 14th July 2016, 22:23   #8
jring
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...except that your eye can use roughly 70 degrees afov and has to move to view the edge of a larger afov (or rather the head in case of the 100 degree EPs). Also super large afov comes at a price, usually eye relief and CA. There's a reason, why 70 degree afov EPs are preferred by many.

Joachim
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Old Thursday 14th July 2016, 22:42   #9
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And high mags with largers afov ... then you need to move your neck not only the eye ...
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Old Friday 15th July 2016, 06:12   #10
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Regardless, I can see the entire 26mm field stop on the 15mm Luminos moving nothing save me mind.
Why not drop a mere 140 simoleons TTD on the 100* Meade 10mm to see what I can see? A mere drop in the bucket compared to an Ethos.

I have high hopes of using it on soaring wings. In that context what little I lose in fov, 82* 15mm vs 100* 10mm, would be more than negated by the additional 18X.
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Old Tuesday 5th September 2017, 04:19   #11
JimH123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VlkStinu View Post
Hi everyone!

I've been reading a lot of positive reviews on upgrading Celestron Regal M2 ED series to Baader Hyperion fixed eyepieces and I decided to give it a go. The zoom eyepiece that goes with Celestron is quite good, but I've been always reading advantages of fixed eyepieces and Baader seems to give a really nice quality for relatively small price.

I have a Celestron Regal M2 100ED, which means that Baader Hyperion 13mm would give me around 41x magnification, whereas 17mm Hyperion would offer around 31x magnification.

Now, I know, that more doesn't always necessarily mean better. In fact, in birding and optics it is the other way around, from what I gathered. But I guess it is in human nature to always be tempted by the "greater" option. And so I am wondering here - what would you recommend in this case? Should I go for 17mm as 31x magnification will be just enough for large number of various situations/conditions/habitats and will give still enough brightness and sharpness or to go with the "greater" option and have 13mm one?

Also, and that is a little more specific question, though not offtopic - will I be able to screw my DSLR camera with T2 ring adapter onto Baader eyepiece as it is possible with Celestron zoom eyepiece?

Thank you in advance for any tips and info!
I realize that this is an old posting, but I saw it and thought I would respond. I have the Celestron Regal with the 100mm lens. And I have the Baader 17mm Hyperion eyepiece.

What I found was that I could not achieve infinity focus with this eyepiece. But there is a solution. The 1 1/4" barrel does unscrew, and I cut it down to make it shorter. With it shorter, I can now achieve infinity focus. The image through the eyepiece is great.

Next question was use with a camera. This is not possible since the camera cannot get close enough to achieve infinity focus. Not even with a Sony e-mount which only needs 18mm.

Now some use digitizing, which I am not a fan of. I have tried it with the 17mm Baader. But with 68 degrees AFOV, the captured image edges are quite blurry due to really wide field of view.

I get much better images using a scope that allows for prime setup. Obviously, I can't do that with the Celestron Regal. Instead, I use an Explore Scientific 102ed. Great results with that scope.

Perhaps this answer to an old post may help someone.
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Old Wednesday 13th September 2017, 03:55   #12
Nixterdemus
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Neither as they are too heavy for the spotter compared to other offerings IMHO.
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Celestron M2 f/5.4 100mm ED-Manfrotto 516 fluid head w/140mm sliding plate

SLV 50* 4mm-- HD-60* 4.5mm-- UWA 82* 5.5mm-- SLV 6mm-- Luminos 82* 7mm-- MWA 100* 10mm-- Luminos 15mm--TV Nagler 50* 3mm/180X - 6mm/90X Zoom
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Old Thursday 5th October 2017, 16:05   #13
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Hey guys,

I received my Celestron Regal M2 80ED with the LER (27mm) yesterday. I didn't test it yet, but with all the reading, I'll probably look for upgrading the eyepiece. Which one would you suggest for birding? Or maybe both (13mm & 17mm)? There's also the Celestron zoom (cheaper), or the more expensive Baader Mark IV (or III...). I won't use my scope for digiscoping, since I already have a great DSLR set

Any advice would be appreciated, thanks in advance :) !

Chris
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