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Old Sunday 23rd October 2016, 17:22   #26
njlarsen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vespobuteo View Post
I suspect the lens/body stabilization will not work in combination if mixing lens/body of different manufacturers?
My thinking is similar to Dan's: I believe you can get about 4 stops with the lens only in the pana 100-400, and about the same with the in body oly stabilization alone. You could probably get about 5 stops by combining within one brand. But in bird photography, you also have to think about movement of the target, it is not like taking city- or landscapes.

Another feature if considering the 100-400 (which is what I am thinking of) would be the high iso performance, because the lens is not really fast. Which camera will be best there?

Niels
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Old Sunday 23rd October 2016, 18:43   #27
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My thinking is similar to Dan's: I believe you can get about 4 stops with the lens only in the pana 100-400, and about the same with the in body oly stabilization alone. You could probably get about 5 stops by combining within one brand. But in bird photography, you also have to think about movement of the target, it is not like taking city- or landscapes.

Another feature if considering the 100-400 (which is what I am thinking of) would be the high iso performance, because the lens is not really fast. Which camera will be best there?

Niels
I think 6-stops have been marketed for the olympus combo. Useful for video mostly I guess. I doubt there will be a major difference in noise performance. Sensor size is what it is. To get any significant better noise performance APS-C would be the way to go.
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Old Monday 24th October 2016, 07:08   #28
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Also, it is in fact better to turn IS of all together if there is enough light to freeze the action. It does make a difference in clarity. IS is a trade off, great when you need it, but a hindrance when you don't.

A per noise... I will wait and see what they he been able to achieve. It is amazing what you can get out of modern smart phones, and they don't have much in the way of sensor real estate! Processing seems to be the key to "get around" the laws of physics. Still, I would love to come even close to the D500 with the E.M1 II. That would really make it a winner!

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Old Wednesday 2nd November 2016, 08:54   #29
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Well that's a bit of a bombshell EM1mk2 at £1850 shipping December, that's without the grip!
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Old Wednesday 2nd November 2016, 10:00   #30
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Yes, that is well out of my budget. I will read the reviews to see if it is much of an improvement on the Mk 1 version and wait to see what the price is in a year or two.

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Old Wednesday 2nd November 2016, 10:10   #31
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"As it turned out, the E-M1 II is a penny under $2000 — a full $600 over the MSRP of the original E-M1 and on par with the Nikon D500. That's a lot of dough for a Micro Four Thirds camera and while my initial impressions of the camera were positive, I want to see how it performs in our tests – especially in terms of autofocus – to see if its worth the price."

https://www.dpreview.com/news/773453...ing-experience
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Old Wednesday 2nd November 2016, 13:47   #32
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I saw a note about the exchange rate giving an almost 25% disadvantage for a Japanese company now compared to when the mark I was announced.

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Old Wednesday 2nd November 2016, 13:55   #33
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Well that's a bit of a bombshell EM1mk2 at £1850 shipping December, that's without the grip!
At that price the Olympus is a no-go for bird photography. Simple as that. For that price a D500 with its proven, excellent AF and the many, many top-quality lenses that can be used with it the D500 seems like a far better camera for bird photography. And when used with the small, light new 4/300+converter it won't be much heavier than the Olympus with the 4/300, with similar reach and better IQ.

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Old Wednesday 2nd November 2016, 15:24   #34
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Something from the rumors site about the differences mk1 vs mk2: http://www.43rumors.com/this-is-why-...ng-to-olympus/

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Old Wednesday 2nd November 2016, 15:50   #35
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At that price the Olympus is a no-go for bird photography. Simple as that. For that price a D500 with its proven, excellent AF and the many, many top-quality lenses that can be used with it the D500 seems like a far better camera for bird photography. And when used with the small, light new 4/300+converter it won't be much heavier than the Olympus with the 4/300, with similar reach and better IQ.

Hermann
Disagree--it is much more complicated than that. Olympus also has high quality lower priced cameras. Also, arguably, you will get either higher image quality (in terms of low light performance) OR similar reach with the D500--but not both, because you'll have to crop to get similar reach (when using lenses of the same magnification) which will degrade image quality. The Oly 300mm f4 also has better optics and image stabilization than the Nikon 300mm PF lens, and you can also use the lightweight panasonic-leica 100-400mm zoom--Nikon has no comparable lightweight zoom.
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Old Wednesday 2nd November 2016, 22:16   #36
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Disagree--it is much more complicated than that. Olympus also has high quality lower priced cameras. Also, arguably, you will get either higher image quality (in terms of low light performance) OR similar reach with the D500--but not both, because you'll have to crop to get similar reach (when using lenses of the same magnification) which will degrade image quality. The Oly 300mm f4 also has better optics and image stabilization than the Nikon 300mm PF lens, and you can also use the lightweight panasonic-leica 100-400mm zoom--Nikon has no comparable lightweight zoom.
The Oly 300/4 seems to be an excellent lens, not so sure about the 100-400 leica. Very slow aperture, for action shots, ISO will hit the upper limits of MFT to often I suspect.
Current MFT cams, in noise terms/DR, seem be close to the 6 year old D7000. Hopefully the E-M1 II can get closer to the D7200 in performance.

https://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Comp...___909_680_614

Last edited by Vespobuteo : Wednesday 2nd November 2016 at 22:38.
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Old Thursday 3rd November 2016, 00:34   #37
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Another nugget from the rumor site:
Quote:
If you though the $1,999 price tag could kill the E-MII “enthusiams”…well it looks we were all wrong: At the moment the E-M1II is the best seller at Amazon mirrorless ranking (Click here). And it’s almost on top of the overall DSLR+Mirrorless camera ranking (Click here).
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Old Thursday 3rd November 2016, 01:03   #38
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Originally Posted by Vespobuteo View Post
The Oly 300/4 seems to be an excellent lens, not so sure about the 100-400 leica. Very slow aperture, for action shots, ISO will hit the upper limits of MFT to often I suspect.
Current MFT cams, in noise terms/DR, seem be close to the 6 year old D7000. Hopefully the E-M1 II can get closer to the D7200 in performance.

https://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Comp...___909_680_614
The 100-400mm is just as fast as the comparable Nikon zoom lenses (which are f5.6 at 400mm--not a material difference). I expect the best APS-C sensors to be less noisy in low light than m4/3 sensors for the forseeable future just because of the difference in sensor size, which affects the amount of light that is gathered. But if you crop your APS-C shots, you get an equivalent noise sensitivity to m4/3.
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Old Friday 4th November 2016, 18:24   #39
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The US $2000 intro price of the E-M1 MarkII came as a surprise to me. I totally understand people who may balk and reconsider using APS-C options.

I'm in a different situation from most people because presently I'm highly invested in both Nikon APS-C and Olympus micro-4/3, having recently purchased the Oly 300mm f/4 Pro. That is a really an idiotic situation for me and someday I will surely sell one system (with a big loss) and remain committed/invested in the other. But it is not really an apples-to-apples comparison, because one system is mirrorless and the other is not. I think the future best systems for bird photography will be mirrorless, either micro-4/3 or APS-C format. Right now if you really want the advantages of mirrorless, I think the E-M1 Mark II is the best option, but wow, $2K. I haven't pre-ordered it yet, but I probably eventually will because I already have the big 300mm...

Thom Hogan had a good little post about the reasons why we are seeing higher and higher prices:
http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/...nthusiasm.html

Dave

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Old Friday 4th November 2016, 18:39   #40
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If I had the 300 f4, I would indeed get the mk 2, but not right away. Since I don't, and do not see myself getting rid of my scopes, a mk 2 will be wasted on me... and without the handheld high-rez not being done, I'll remain with my workhorse, th e-m5 mk1, til it drops dead
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Old Friday 4th November 2016, 19:52   #41
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I tried looking around a little. The APC Canon 7d-II seems to have a list price of $1800 body only, probably unchanged from when it came out in 2014. It is my impression that the Yen exchange rate probably became worse for Japanese companies since then, so I would not be surprised if that camera would have a list price of around $2000 if it came out today.

So Oly might be at the right level in price, IF - and that is a big if -- AF works as well in the mark ii as it does in a camera like the 7d. I will sit back and hear what actual users have to say once they get their hands on this camera.

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Old Friday 4th November 2016, 20:22   #42
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For me, price has never really been a factor in deciding between m4/3 and DSLRs. The reason I opted for the former is lower weight of the body and lenses combined. So the high price of the EM-1 mk II doesn't make DSLRs more attractive to me.

However, it is making me take a closer look at other m4/3 camera bodies; will also be interesting to see how the GH-5 is priced. If I do decide to go for the mk II, I may wait until the price declines.
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Old Friday 4th November 2016, 21:42   #43
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I tried looking around a little. The APC Canon 7d-II seems to have a list price of $1800 body only, probably unchanged from when it came out in 2014. It is my impression that the Yen exchange rate probably became worse for Japanese companies since then, so I would not be surprised if that camera would have a list price of around $2000 if it came out today.

So Oly might be at the right level in price, IF - and that is a big if -- AF works as well in the mark ii as it does in a camera like the 7d. I will sit back and hear what actual users have to say once they get their hands on this camera.

Niels
7D II is more like $1300 around here, the Nikon D7200 is $1000 which is the same as the new Panasonic G85/G80.

The new G85/G80 looks pretty nice actually. weather sealed, 4K, 16MP with no AA-filter and shutter shock problems have been fixed. Also C-AF seem to have been improved. Dual IS with the 100-400mm panaleica.

Is the E-M1 II worth 100%/$1000 extra?
Perhaps it's like comparing the D7200 and the D500.
And Olympus seem to target professionals with the E-M1 II in the video below.
1 stop better noise performance is claimed (and better dynamic range).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y56zaMP0ggQ

I guess we'll see if any Olympic sports shooters will move to Olympus.

Last edited by Vespobuteo : Friday 4th November 2016 at 22:35.
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Old Saturday 5th November 2016, 00:36   #44
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7D II is more like $1300 around here,
That is why I bolded "list" in list price. I also expect that 2 years after introduction, the oly mkII is going to be considerably cheaper than at introduction, just like the Canon seems to have fallen several hundred $$ since its introduction.

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Old Saturday 5th November 2016, 10:28   #45
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I also expect that 2 years after introduction, the oly mkII is going to be considerably cheaper than at introduction, just like the Canon seems to have fallen several hundred $$ since its introduction.

Niels
Depends how well it sells. The Pen F came out at the start of this year and is still the same price (£999 body only, UK), so presumably, that's still selling well enough at that price.

An Olympus 'rep' at Photokina did the EM1 MkII no favours by stating that it would be slightly higher in price compared to the original price of the MkI - and Olympus themselves introduced the MkII EM5 the previous year without loading the price up over the original MkI.

In the end, it will all depend on how much better certain features are than the MkI EM1.It's all well and good taking people off to Iceland because of the excellent possibilities of great landscape shots, but soon someone will be testing it at fast-action sport events or challenging wildlife situations which will test the continuous focus of the camrea to the full (and possibly the reduced 'rolling-shutter' effects in silent mode).

Then we'll know whether it's worth the price - if there's no great benefits then you can always get, for the same price (£1849, UK), an EM1 MkI body together with both the !2-40mm Pro and 40-150mm Pro F2.8 lenses (http://www.wexphotographic.com/buy-o...enses/p1570115 (£1999 less £150 discount until November 10th)
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Old Saturday 5th November 2016, 11:42   #46
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That is why I bolded "list" in list price. I also expect that 2 years after introduction, the oly mkII is going to be considerably cheaper than at introduction, just like the Canon seems to have fallen several hundred $$ since its introduction.

Niels
Yes, but the 7D MkII was not 43% more expensive than the MkI-model at introduction. More like 10%. To me it looks like a change in pricing strategy from Olympus due to the focus on the pro-segment.
Time will tell how fast the price-drop will be.

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Old Saturday 5th November 2016, 15:36   #47
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Not sure if this have been posted, but there are samples from the E-M1 MK II,
not full res. but right click on image and open in other window to see it larger.
Here is one example with the 300/4 IS pro, biting sharpness IMO.

http://cameras.olympus.com/assets/im..._nakano/03.jpg

http://cameras.olympus.com/assets/im...gotneva/05.jpg

And more here:

http://cameras.olympus.com/omd/en/pr...s/koji_nakano/

http://cameras.olympus.com/omd/en/pro-gallery/

Last edited by Vespobuteo : Saturday 5th November 2016 at 15:55.
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Old Sunday 6th November 2016, 11:33   #48
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Brand new E-M1 II IQ "review".
Includes interesting comparisons with 7D MkII, X-T2, D500, GX8 and E-M1 MkI:

"The Canon 7D Mark II does well at base ISO, but the Olympus E-M1 II actually does better as ISO rises, with better detail, similar contrast and fewer false colors."

http://www.imaging-resource.com/news...ality-analysis

Last edited by Vespobuteo : Sunday 6th November 2016 at 12:37.
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Old Sunday 6th November 2016, 21:05   #49
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Brand new E-M1 II IQ "review".
Includes interesting comparisons with 7D MkII, X-T2, D500, GX8 and E-M1 MkI:

"The Canon 7D Mark II does well at base ISO, but the Olympus E-M1 II actually does better as ISO rises, with better detail, similar contrast and fewer false colors."

http://www.imaging-resource.com/news...ality-analysis
That "comparison" is a bit of a joke because they're comparing JPEGs SOOC, so in effect they're looking more at the quality of the JPEG-engine than anything else. Things will only get interesting when people start looking at the RAWS. I've yet to see a camera where one can't get better results than the in-built JPEG-engine when working on the RAWs.

And for bird photography the main question will be how well AF-C works. The 7DII is pretty good, the D500 is class-leading, and if the Olympus can get to at least the level of the Canon they may well make some inroads into bird photography.

If they don't most people won't be bothered at that price level.

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Old Sunday 6th November 2016, 22:00   #50
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As stated in the comment section, you can download the Raw images and play around yourself.

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