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Old Saturday 19th November 2016, 16:20   #76
nikonmike
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From what i understand the 100-300 has a lot slower focus motor than the 100-400
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Old Saturday 19th November 2016, 17:12   #77
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One thing to remember is that looking at his statements today, it is worth remembering that his m4/3 cameras are at least 1 generation back from those we have otherwise discussed.
Sure. I'm not really sure if things got really that much better though. The sensors from a few years ago were already up to scratch, and the problem with AF-C seems to be a problem inherent in the focusing system they use. Maybe the new Olympus M1 is a bit better, that remains to be seen.

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The second thing I believe is that the pana 100-300 suffer from quality variation one copy to another.
Probably yes. My partner has got one, it's pretty sharp up to 250mm, after that it loses quite a bit of acuity. Stopping down to 7.1 or 8 helps somewhat, but my old adapted primes are definitely better, like the Nikon 4.5/300 IF-ED.

Actually, that Indian guy's blog convinced me to try the Panasonic for a few weeks as a walk about lens. I've got an Olympus M5 Mark I that I use with short primes and with some adapted old Nikkors. Works nicely, but I want to have at least some sort of AF. And AF-S works pretty well with M4/3 as long as the light is reasonable. AF-C doesn't.

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Old Saturday 19th November 2016, 17:29   #78
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Sure. I'm not really sure if things got really that much better though. The sensors from a few years ago were already up to scratch, and the problem with AF-C seems to be a problem inherent in the focusing system they use. Maybe the new Olympus M1 is a bit better, that remains to be seen.
The blog is over a year old, and the equipment even older. He even mentions considering the EM-1, which came out in 2012 iirc, as an upgrade. It is also from before either the Olympus 300mm f4 or the Pany-Leica 100-400mm were released--both of which he mentions as lenses he is looking forward to and are certainly equal or better in optical quality to equivalent DSLR lenses, which could not be said of the 100mm-300mm he was using. Every review/preview of the GX80/85 or the EM-1 mk ii indicate autofocus tracking is much improved--how could it not be on the latter when they have tripled the number of autofocus points? (In any event the importance of autofocus tracking is over-rated imo; small portion of most bird photography make use of it). Dual image stabilization is better than what DSLRs offer. In short, it is clear that m4/3 system has since moved much closer to mainstream DSLRs, and beyond them in some respects.

In any event, because of it's weight advantage, m4/3s doesn't have to surpass or even equal DSLRs in all respects to be competitive.

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Old Saturday 19th November 2016, 17:46   #79
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The focusing system has developed recently on both brands. Panasonic has come out with the DFD which does not function with the 100-300 but does function with the 100-400, and appeared first on something like the G7 I believe and was added by update to the GH4. Olympus has added on-chip PDAF with the EM1-i as their first camera to have it (so not present in your em5-i). Both Pana and Oly has increased the sensor readout times (I did not check, so I hope my memory is accurate here) for faster AF.

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Old Thursday 24th November 2016, 08:24   #80
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I read the review on dpr of the Olympus EM-1 ii, also discussed here: http://www.birdforum.net/showthread....55#post3487555

Sounds good to me, a step close to DSLR AF performance, although not yet there... What's to expect of the Panasonic GH5? I read mostly about announced improvements regarding video, but Panasonic does not seem to boast about faster AF as much as Olympus did. Does that indicate it will be rather behind the Oly in this regard?

Anyway, at the moment I don't see me paying 2000 for either. I'd rather would go for the G81 which costs half and seems quite decent as well. But as I don't have the cash ready at the moment, I still have some time to wait
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Old Thursday 24th November 2016, 12:41   #81
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Re the GH5, I think they have to have some AF improvement, but they may not be completely sure how far they can get.

Re price: I think that once early adopters have bought theirs, you can get a cheaper one, possibly price reduction or possibly secondhand or refurb.

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Old Monday 6th February 2017, 09:04   #82
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I watched/read few more interesting reviews:

G80/81/85 by David Thorpe: https://youtu.be/jr0uPSOF0jE
EM1ii by David Thorpe: https://youtu.be/eWsSSFQCP4o
Long review on G80 by cameralabs (which frequently makes reference to the EM1ii too): http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Pa...Lumix_G80_G85/

My take from these and earlier reviews is that the G80 is very good at AF for birds, but that the Oly is even better at this and very close to DSLRs. Besides this, I did not see other very strong arguments in favor of the Oly (I'm almost set for the Pana 100-400 lens and still pondering about which body to go with it). But ff course, better AF performance is a very strong argument.

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Old Monday 6th February 2017, 11:17   #83
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Hi Florian,
I'm in the very fortunate position of having married a photographer. This means that she carries a Nikon D810 with the Tamron 150-600 sport lens and all hand held! She doesn't carry bins, as I said she is primarily a photographer whereas I'm the birder, allegedly!

I know this isn't ideal for birders who are looking for a compromise, something that gives good results whilst being portable too. This set up is pretty heavy and really takes some practice to be able to wield the lens in this way but I'm amazed at some of the shots she gets that I never would.


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Old Monday 6th February 2017, 13:16   #84
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I watched/read few more interesting reviews:

G80/81/85 by David Thorpe: https://youtu.be/jr0uPSOF0jE
EM1ii by David Thorpe: https://youtu.be/eWsSSFQCP4o
Long review on G80 by cameralabs (which frequently makes reference to the EM1ii too): http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Pa...Lumix_G80_G85/

My take from these and earlier reviews is that the G80 is very good at AF for birds, but that the Oly is even better at this and very close to DSLRs. Besides this, I did not see other very strong arguments in favor of the Oly (I'm almost set for the Pana 100-400 lens and still pondering about which body to go with it). But ff course, better AF performance is a very strong argument.
The G80 looks like a great camera. But for the extra money you do also get a better sensor with the E-M1ii, one that matches the best DSLRs in low light capabilities and also has a few more MP than the G80, which should give a bit extra room to crop.

https://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Comp...1136_1118_1061

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=338343
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Old Monday 6th February 2017, 13:34   #85
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But for the extra money you do also get a better sensor with the E-M1ii, one that matches the best DSLRs in low light capabilities and also has a few more MP than the G80, which should give a bit extra room to crop.
True. There a more arguments, but the main one to me is currently the AF capability. However, the extra money is 1000 bucks and I have a hard time to justify the investment for the G80+100-400 aready...
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Old Monday 6th February 2017, 13:45   #86
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I'm in the very fortunate position of having married a photographer.
Indeed fortunate, especially that she is joining you when going birding

For me personally, the Pana 100-400 is about the maxium of camera gear I can see myself lugging around.
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Old Monday 6th February 2017, 14:24   #87
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Indeed fortunate, especially that she is joining you when going birding
She goes out on her own birding since we met and often comes back with shots I dream of.........


A
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Old Monday 6th February 2017, 14:27   #88
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Indeed fortunate, especially that she is joining you when going birding

For me personally, the Pana 100-400 is about the maxium of camera gear I can see myself lugging around.
I am very much in line with you there. I am also in doubt as to which camera to pair it with.

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Old Monday 6th February 2017, 14:48   #89
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'For me personally, the Pana 100-400 is about the maxium of camera gear I can see myself lugging around'.

The classic conundrum, birders want great shots but don't want to carry the gear. More than a few have actually crossed over and become more photographer than birder in light of not wanting to compromise on the picture quality. It's a tricky balance to achieve.

Given the quality if images posted by the likes of Pete Morris of Birdquest, perhaps find out what he uses?


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Old Monday 6th February 2017, 16:17   #90
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Here is a review from a swedish very credible site, the reviewer have lots of experience from different camera systems, DSLR etc. Test is done with Pana GX8.

http://www.fotosidan.se/cldoc/fotosi...dg-100-400.htm

The main points are (google translate):

"Panasonic Leica DG 100-400 mm f / 4 to 6.3 is a sharp and well built, yet compact and lightweight lens that performs throughout very good. It drops only slightly in the sharpness really long distance. It's not a cheap lens, but it delivers and gives the Micro Four Thirds photographers awaited a long and sharp telephoto lens."

"The only apparent weakness is the brightness at 400 mm. It is not enough to bird photo the earliest dawn or late at night. But as telephoto package to take with you on trips or walks Panasonic 100-400 gives an unbeatable mix of range, optical quality and light weight."

"Focusing is fast and works great and silent, that which limits this is rather to autofocus in Panasonic cameras are not quite so good at following moving subjects. It will be interesting to try these lens on the upcoming Olympus E-M1 II. Thankfully, the lens has a focus limiter that reduces chasing the times when the camera loses focus. The stabilization feels very efficient."

"Puffin on Runde in Norway. The sharpness and detail even at max aperture is lovely, bokeh is good but not great. The only thing we had trouble with this evening was the focus speed to catch the flying bird, but it's the camera's fault, not the lens. (Lumix GX8 with 100-400, at 300 mm, f / 5.9, 1/640, ISO 1600)."

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Old Monday 6th February 2017, 17:41   #91
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Thanks for sharing. They mention testing the lens with the em1-ii -- do you know if this has happened?

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Old Monday 6th February 2017, 19:04   #92
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Thanks for sharing. They mention testing the lens with the em1-ii -- do you know if this has happened?

Niels
No, I haven't seen any further tests. But I don't doubt that the E-M1 II have faster C-AF than the GX8. GH5 vs E-M1 II will probably be a closer call.
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Old Tuesday 7th February 2017, 08:18   #93
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'More than a few have actually crossed over and become more photographer than birder in light of not wanting to compromise on the picture quality.
Well, you never know of course, but for now I certainly want to stay a birder foremost, and want just to be able to take better pictures of more birds. I certainly don't see myself sitting half a day in a camouflage tent with camara on tripod, I want to keep my walking around habits and be able to covering distance. Thus I'm almost certainly set on mFT as maximum of a format to get.

Just working on my tax declaration, and it looks as there might be some returns coming my way that may make financing of the new toy easier

Still the question is if the G80 is good enough for my purpose or if I need/want to shell out 1000 more for the EM1ii... From all I read, it seems that AF-S is very good in the Panasonic and on par with the EM1ii or better DSLRs. It's the AF-C and tracking, were the G80 still seems to be a bit behind.

Now, what I don't know, how important is AF-C actually in real life? With my bridge camera, I only use AF-S, because AF-C is useless. So for me, a fast AF-S would already be a big improvement, but of course I don't know how I'd use a camera with better capabilities.

Do you guys with capable DSLRs use AF-C as a standard for most situations or do you actually do a lot with AF-S as well?
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Old Sunday 12th February 2017, 12:35   #94
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I am already finding the G80 and 100-400 a better combo than G7 and 100-300 - I have not used the setup as much as I would have liked so far, but have already had more success with BIF than previous. This combo is a definite step up, and I am probably learning as I go along too, which helps also.
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Old Sunday 12th February 2017, 17:36   #95
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I am already finding the G80 and 100-400 a better combo than G7 and 100-300 - I have not used the setup as much as I would have liked so far, but have already had more success with BIF than previous. This combo is a definite step up, and I am probably learning as I go along too, which helps also.
Interesting please keep us updated,ime thinking i may change my GX8 for the G80
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Old Sunday 12th February 2017, 19:48   #96
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This Mute Swan was one of a string of shots that I took one day that highlighted to me the capability of the setup, focus locked on pretty quick, and was maintained for the string of 8 or so shots I took, which I don't think would have happened with the 100-300 so successfully - the initial lock on would have taken much longer for a start.

While not the best photo in the world (light was not the best) it has highlighted that I am now able to attempt BIF for the first time with m43 with some confidence of success - I would say a lot is down to the lens capability, together with the camera dfd etc, and lastly as I say I am gaining knowledge, so maybe am getting a better control of the kit's capabilities.

The Snow Bunting is my favourite shot so far with the setup, again light not so good, but still quite pleasing.

I understand the GX8 to be similar in resolution when directly compared, as the removal of the AA filter gets the G80 closer albeit with less pixels, but of course the magnetic shutter and IBIS are massive gains in my opinion, together with the ergonomics. While the EM1 mk2 is likely better still, I am satisfied that in good light conditions my G80 wouldn't be far off that, if not hard to split - maybe if fast action shots were my staple I would consider that camera, but then again APS-C and FF would be better still - I am happy with my compromise so far - 800mm so steady and compact is pretty amazing.
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Old Sunday 12th February 2017, 21:46   #97
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While the EM1 mk2 is likely better still, I am satisfied that in good light conditions my G80 wouldn't be far off that, if not hard to split - maybe if fast action shots were my staple I would consider that camera, but then again APS-C and FF would be better still - I am happy with my compromise so far - 800mm so steady and compact is pretty amazing.
Thanks a lot for posting your experience. Looking forwards to hearing more as you grow used to the camera...
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Old Sunday 12th February 2017, 21:47   #98
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Here a recent post by Daniel Cox, comparing IS of the EM1ii and G80, and also some words on AF...
http://naturalexposures.com/leica-10...lumix-olympus/
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Old Sunday 12th February 2017, 22:28   #99
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There is a good review of the pros and cons of the G80/81/85 here too https://youtu.be/XQfOD_wGwxk

The IS gain with dual IS I think would be fair to estimate at 1 stop over the lens only IS you would get on the EM1 mk 2 as of course lens IS is far more effective than IBIS at longer focal lengths. Obviously depends on holding skills but dual IS 2 I expect gets between 4 and 6 stops, which is none too shabby!

I understand the 300 f/4 with EM1 mk2 is the ultimate in m43 currently, that gets sync IS, but one compromise I took was the usefulness of a zoom, which also comes in a smaller lighter, and less expensive package.
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Old Sunday 12th February 2017, 22:31   #100
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....the EM1 mk2 has phase detect AF, but as that review, and my experience to date have concluded, BIF is possible with the G80, but if an absolute priority then maybe the EM1 mk2 could be more suited.
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