[BirdsPeru]

Looking into my pictures of Africa 2002 I just found this one without an ID, so I would like to know if someone can tell me which bird it is.

Taken in south africa on October 2002 as the title says it is a bad picture for IDing but any help would be appreciated.

Regards,

Alejandro

[HouseCrow]

Could this be Black Crake (Amaurornis flavirostris)?

[cuckooroller]

Alejandro,
I don't know if this is identifiable. I have tried to blow up the head and can't get anything useful out of it. The habitat helps but only narrows it down to two probable groups but that is as far as I personally can take it. It is either some type of small heron or some type of the larger african rallidae.

[alcedo.atthis]

"I don't know if this is identifiable. I have tried to blow up the head and can't get anything useful out of it. The habitat helps but only narrows it down to two probable groups but that is as far as I personally can take it. It is either some type of small heron or some type of the larger african rallidae."

What about a Black Egret?

Regards

Malky

[JANJ]

Definitily not a Black Crake, which has a yellow bill and red legs (adult) and a different body shape. Black Egret would also be my candidate, but it looks as it has yellow legs,at least tarsus. One would expect black with yellow feet in Black. Slaty Egret was an option but it seems to lack any rufous on the neck. Well, Black Egret for the time beeing.
JanJ

[HouseCrow]

I wondered about the eyes but in some pictures after some googling I saw they were not clearly red.
but legs are yellowish indeed so out goes Black Crake
But what is it doing it seems to be stretching to catch a spider or something.
If it is an egret where is the bill? surely it's not that yellowish curved line, which i at first mistook for the yellow bill of Black Crake.

[JANJ]

Originally Posted by HouseCrow

I wondered about the eyes but in some pictures after some googling I saw they were not clearly red.
but legs are yellowish indeed so out goes Black Crake
But what is it doing it seems to be stretching to catch a spider or something.
If it is an egret where is the bill? surely it's not that yellowish curved line, which i at first mistook for the yellow bill of Black Crake.

Yes, where is the bill? If it´s looking slightly down, which I think it is, what´s that on it´s head then?
JanJ

I just saw that the thing on it´s head probably is a part of the back ground vegetation.
JanJ

[Rasmus Boegh]

With that body-shape I really can't see it as a Heron or Egret (Black is quite a slim bird and so is the Slaty which only has been recorded a few times in SA). To me it looks like some pre-ad. Gallinula, possibly Lesser Moorhen (G. angulata) as everything but the colour of the bill fits perfectly (and judging the colour of anything but the upper surface of the bill is clearly quite difficult from this angle). Where in South Africa did you take it?

[JANJ]

Rasmus, you are probably right, that at least explains why we didn´t see the bill!
JanJ

[alcedo.atthis]

"To me it looks like some pre-ad. Gallinula, possibly Lesser Moorhen (G. angulata) as everything but the colour of the bill fits perfectly"

Does it? Looks a bit dark for juv', in the photo supplied.

Regards

Malky

[JANJ]

Seems as Rasmus mean a sub-adult, and I think a sub-adult Lesser Moorhen would have some sort of frontal shield, yellow or red, and at least a yellow bill, or close to it, and yes, maybe not that dark. It does seem long legged. It doesn´t really have that Egret body, looks "bottom heavy".
JanJ

[Rasmus Boegh]

A brief explanation: "pre" means before, thus, pre-ad is just about everything before full adult plumage, nothing specific. I'm sure there are people that use it differently, but that was what I meant with it.

[JANJ]

Originally Posted by Rasmus Boegh

A brief explanation: "pre" means before, thus, pre-ad is just about everything before full adult plumage, nothing specific. I'm sure there are people that use it differently, but that was what I meant with it.

I´m familiar with the word "pre" and what it means, and in any case perhaps pre- adult is a better word (if you dont know the exact age) than "sub", which means under. So what might it be then, the bird I mean?
JanJ

[cuckooroller]

I fully understand Rasmus's reluctance in committing himself to terms other than vague for this photo. It is the same reason that I have kept on the vague. The pic is a bad pic and one that in final analysis can lead to, at best, only a probable ID. As noted the bird seems thick and bottom heavy ventrally and generally out of conformation for any type of small Ardeidae. This leaves a large Rallidae. I also think that it is some type of Rail. I exclude it being from genus Amaurornis (i.e. flavirostris), for reasons of general conformation, size, (flavirostris is one of the smaller of the genus), etc. It's not a Coot. The color isn't right for Porphyrio (juvenile or adult). We are in Africa south of the Sahara. More or less, by exclusion, we have only Gallinula angulata left as a possible. The choice of saying pre-adult is apt in this case. It is not a sub-adult which would show most (but not all) of the characteristics of an adult. So, I agree with Rasmus, probable pre-adult Gallinula angulata.

[BirdsPeru]

Thanks to everyone. I know the picture is really bad and that's the reason why I do not have an ID for this bird.

One thing I am pretty sure is that it is not a Black Crake ( I saw them and this one does not look like the ones I saw). The only time I saw this bird and get this bad picture was more like a Gallinule or like a Rail.

Once again thanks for the help, much appreciated.

Alejandro

[alcedo.atthis]

"So, I agree with Rasmus, probable pre-adult Gallinula angulata."


Photo of a "pre-adult Gallinula angulata" here??

http://chandra.as.utexas.edu/~kormen...ricabirds.html
Scroll down for Lesser Moorhen (juvenile),
Adult
http://www.mangoverde.com/birdsound/...pec46-120.html
http://www.communique.se/medit/aves/...es/gal_ang.htm
Sighting, description and behaviour report
http://www.osme.org/sand222/lmoorh.html

Still think that it's a lesser??

Regards

Malky

[cuckooroller]

Malky,
Nothing is written in stone when trying to do ID's from photos. I see this as a "tweener" - something not juvenile but not near being sub-adult - but this may be just baloney as this is difficult to judge from this photo. That is why the best that can be said is "possible", or "probable". Since I do see this as a Rail, everything considered, and a larger Rail, I have just about excluded everything possible ranging in that Family for various reasons. For me, this is one of those "feely" ID's, i.e. you can't be sure but you have a gut feeling". More than that with this photo I don't think you can get. I've seen tons of photos that I give up on as they just don't give me enough to work on to give an absolutely positive ID. My gut stands by Gallinula angulata! Could be wrong but that's how I see it.

[Rasmus Boegh]

Originally Posted by alcedo.atthis

Still think that it's a lesser??

Malky, the most I ever said was that it "looks like some pre-ad. Gallinula, possibly Lesser Moorhen". I have quite a bit of experiance with that species and I still won't go any further than what was expressed in my quote. BTW: The juv. you linked to is unusual. Normally, they have a browner neck and a rather small white throat patch. Imm's are similar to the adult, but have a browner hue below, an indistinct white throat-patch, a smaller shield which is darker than in the adult (where it is red). Upperside of the upper mandible also is darker in imm. (the part that's reddish in the ad.). So, I am absolutely confident it isn't a juv. Lesser and never claimed otherwise. If anyone can find a better match than "some pre-ad. Gallinula, possibly Lesser Moorhen", I'd certainly be willing to listen.

[JANJ]

Both Rasmus and CR exhibits very good points in their explanation of how to judge, or not to judge this bird, and from a photo that is not especially instructive, to say the least. They not only have good knowledge, but also a very sound approach to a problem (if you like) that maybe can´t be solved in a satisfying way.
Regards JanJ