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Old Tuesday 10th January 2017, 12:52   #76
Gilmore Girl
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Dead right JG.
Specs don't tell half of the story even if they are a guide. Take light weight. I'm all for that too but at some point light weight can mean reduced durability and you can't see this from just looking at the bins. And take ER folks on here have found 15mm more than adequate and some had problems with 18mm, its due to eyecup design and face and spectacles and you can't factor that into specifications. And all the opinions from trusted friends and BF posters in the world can't really tell you how you are going to feel when you wrap your hands around a pair of bins and lift them to your eyes.

Lee
So what is your advice to people who can't get to a store and try optics out for themselves? Order a binocular which is listed to have insufficient ER and crossing fingers hoping it works? I actually did silly stuff like that and got burned over and over and recently even . I learned my lesson finally to ignore bins with listed ER which is too short for me (based on experience). Like I said earlier it's annoying as heck returning the items and it can be costly too. Who has the time, money and energy to order and return ad nauseam ... Most people don't quite have the endurance Dennis has to constantly do this.

I agree specs don't tell the whole story and trying something out is ultimately the best way to go, but you have to narrow it down using the specs if you must order bins online. For those of us who need to do this we need to take the specs at face value even if there is the small risk that the specs are inaccurate. Most people rely on them as a guide because it's a smart way to shop online to avoid hassle and frustration.

You can certainly figure out if lightweight means cheap by the price tag.
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Old Tuesday 10th January 2017, 13:05   #77
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I agree specs don't tell the whole story and trying something out is ultimately the best way to go, but you have to narrow it down using the specs if you must order bins online.
Hi GiGi

Yes you are right GiGi. If you can't get to the store you have to use specifications to guide your choice.

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Old Tuesday 10th January 2017, 13:10   #78
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Understood Gilmore Girl. I'm not saying a guy/lady should disregard specs, but they can be misleading and often are. FWIW I'm not the least bit interested in this new GPO stuff either, but I bet we haven't seen the last of this business model in optics.
I guess you're right since this new business model seems to be catching on and it seems smart. However, no service/repair center is a negative for me.
I don't embrace disposable bins especially when some disposables are now several hundred dollars, but that's the way of the world now. I still like the idea of having binos repaired and continuing to use them for a long time. Optics tech repair specialists may be going the way of the dodo just like tv repairmen ... I can only hope not. It's a fine profession and would be sad to see these jobs go away.
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Old Tuesday 10th January 2017, 13:17   #79
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Hi GiGi

Yes you are right GiGi. If you can't get to the store you have to use specifications to guide your choice.

Lee
Lee,
I'm gonna need a little more argument from you next time...not enough to get Steve involved, but just enough to take the thread far off course and lob a few personal insults at each other. It will bring us closer
HAHA, as Dennis would say.
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Old Tuesday 10th January 2017, 15:19   #80
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So what is your advice to people who can't get to a store and try optics out for themselves? Order a binocular which is listed to have insufficient ER and crossing fingers hoping it works? I actually did silly stuff like that and got burned over and over and recently even . I learned my lesson finally to ignore bins with listed ER which is too short for me (based on experience). Like I said earlier it's annoying as heck returning the items and it can be costly too. Who has the time, money and energy to order and return ad nauseam ... Most people don't quite have the endurance Dennis has to constantly do this.

I agree specs don't tell the whole story and trying something out is ultimately the best way to go, but you have to narrow it down using the specs if you must order bins online. For those of us who need to do this we need to take the specs at face value even if there is the small risk that the specs are inaccurate. Most people rely on them as a guide because it's a smart way to shop online to avoid hassle and frustration.

You can certainly figure out if lightweight means cheap by the price tag.
"Most people don't quite have the endurance Dennis has to constantly do this."

So just let me do the footwork and go by my recommendations. No, just kidding. You have to try binoculars yourself to find what you like but Bird Forum is VERY helpful with the reviews and opinions of other members. I found the Tract Toric and the Maven by trying them after they were recommended on Bird Forum and they work good for me. I really trust Steve and jgraiders opinions now since they are accurate most of the time. I really like jgraiders reviews because they are based on actual field use and he tells it like it is.
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Old Tuesday 10th January 2017, 15:19   #81
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Or the Liberal ones from the USA.

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Why should I give a ratsazzz what non USA BF members think about the NRA?
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Old Tuesday 10th January 2017, 15:23   #82
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I guess you're right since this new business model seems to be catching on and it seems smart. However, no service/repair center is a negative for me.
I don't embrace disposable bins especially when some disposables are now several hundred dollars, but that's the way of the world now. I still like the idea of having binos repaired and continuing to use them for a long time. Optics tech repair specialists may be going the way of the dodo just like tv repairmen ... I can only hope not. It's a fine profession and would be sad to see these jobs go away.
Do you take your TV or computer to a repair center? No, you just get a new one under warranty or buy a new one. Same thing will happen to binoculars. It is a more efficient business model. Look how cheap big screen TV's are now. You can get a 40 inch flat screen now for $200.00!
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Old Tuesday 10th January 2017, 15:25   #83
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Or the Liberal ones from the USA.

Amen brother.
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Old Tuesday 10th January 2017, 15:56   #84
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Ah, ok. I had a look at his linkedin profile and he still figures as Zeiss employee there, that's why I assumed his departure was recently only.
Sigh..... if Zeiss had only read my Zeiss Christmas wish

Jan
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Old Tuesday 10th January 2017, 16:54   #85
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Lee,
It will bring us closer


Wow GiGi, got my heart banging away there.....

Lee
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Old Tuesday 10th January 2017, 16:58   #86
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Wow GiGi, got my heart banging away there.....

Lee
lol...I still got it. Didn't mean to give you a blast to the ticker there.
We need you around for those super nature/bird based reviews. Otherwise, it's testing against military charts and tree bark.
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Old Tuesday 10th January 2017, 18:05   #87
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Or the Liberal ones from the USA.
This is Birdforum, where the vast majority of users would be repulsed by guns, hunting, NRA etc. It is what it is, certainly isn't a surprising position, considering you are dealing with [mostly] birdwatchers.
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Old Tuesday 10th January 2017, 18:08   #88
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lol...I still got it. Didn't mean to give you a blast to the ticker there.
We need you around for those super nature/bird based reviews. Otherwise, it's testing against military charts and tree bark.
Over here a young man (like me), after meeting an attractive young lady (like you) at the bar/pub or club, would hope to be invited back to her place for coffee and chocolate biscuits.

Thanks for your kind words about my reviews but I notice there was no invitation, not even just for coffee

Lee
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Old Tuesday 10th January 2017, 18:38   #89
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I'll be damned, my NRA avatar was removed.
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Amen brother.
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Old Tuesday 10th January 2017, 18:47   #90
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lol...I still got it. Didn't mean to give you a blast to the ticker there.
We need you around for those super nature/bird based reviews. Otherwise, it's testing against military charts and tree bark.
Or DVD cases
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Old Tuesday 10th January 2017, 18:56   #91
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That works great, until the specs are wrong, such as with the FOV of the new Noctovid.
The German manufactures must scratch their heads over the inability of US distributors to convert metric correctly. It's quite common in many fields. Zeiss US did it a while back with the 8x56 Conquest.
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Old Tuesday 10th January 2017, 18:58   #92
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Over here a young man (like me), after meeting an attractive young lady (like you) at the bar/pub or club, would hope to be invited back to her place for coffee and chocolate biscuits.

Thanks for your kind words about my reviews but I notice there was no invitation, not even just for coffee

Lee
Sorry Troubsey I prefer Tea even though I'm American and I'm supposed to drink Coffee. I'm drinking Green Tea lately in the mornings. I had to look up those choc biscuits...they look so good !

and now back to our regularly scheduled program ...
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Old Tuesday 10th January 2017, 18:58   #93
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Or DVD cases
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Old Tuesday 10th January 2017, 19:10   #94
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I'll be damned, my NRA avatar was removed.
Respectfully,We are a Wildbird Forum, your logo was offensive to some members on the site, really we need to forget politics on the site then we will all get along together.

I'm hoping you will agree with me?

ta

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Old Tuesday 10th January 2017, 19:46   #95
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I agree with obeying rules and not politicizing things on here, but that idea should be honored by Liberals and Conservatives alike. The anti NRA comments should be removed, many Americans consider the right to bear arms the most important one we have and we don't take disrespect of it lightly. If they're offended by what I believe in, then I'm offended by them. I'll leave this here and make no further comments regarding anything other than binoculars and my occasional goofiness.

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Respectfully,We are a Wildbird Forum, your logo was offensive to some members on the site, really we need to forget politics on the site then we will all get along together.

I'm hoping you will agree with me?

ta

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Old Tuesday 10th January 2017, 20:01   #96
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Superduty,its not about what you believe in or what others believe in on the forum, we all have different views and its healthy, I would just prefer it if we all on this forum at least, forgot about guns and hunting and talked about optics, birds, etc... I know its difficult at times in the optics forum as obviously hunters use Optics,I am also aware that the majority of hunters take conservation seriously. So we will agree to leave it there. However if you really want to debate it we have ruffled feathers an unmoderated forum somewhere on the site, where you can discuss anything, BUT as with all things there is a line that should not be crossed.

Thank you for your reply I hope others read our post's and act accordingly

Best

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Old Tuesday 10th January 2017, 20:09   #97
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Thanks Steve


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Superduty,its not about what you believe in or what others believe in on the forum, we all have different views and its healthy, I would just prefer it if we all on this forum at least, forgot about guns and hunting and talked about optics, birds, etc... I know its difficult at times in the optics forum as obviously hunters use Optics,I am also aware that the majority of hunters take conservation seriously. So we will agree to leave it there. However if you really want to debate it we have ruffled feathers an unmoderated forum somewhere on the site, where you can discuss anything, BUT as with all things there is a line that should not be crossed.

Thank you for your reply I hope others read our post's and act accordingly

Best

Steve
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Old Tuesday 10th January 2017, 22:59   #98
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Or DVD cases
You STILL remember that! God you have a memory like an elephant. They do work good. A LOT of fine print.

Last edited by denco@comcast.n : Tuesday 10th January 2017 at 23:28.
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Old Wednesday 11th January 2017, 15:43   #99
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SHOT Show

If any of you are visiting SHOT I have just heard that Mike Jensen will be in the NSSF lounge each day and will have some sample product with him. If you want to catch him I suggest you send a mail to info@gpo-usa.com and make arrangements with him.

Lee
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Old Wednesday 11th January 2017, 19:44   #100
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Are these line of binoculars made in China?
I would be surprised if not given the failure to identify where actually manufactured coupled with statements like "Our products are built to our high-quality standards in some of the largest global production facilities in the world. All of our design, engineering, and quality management is done internally in Germany."
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